WHO'S RESPONSIBLE?

[BlueTiki]

When one buys drugs from their dealer & the buyer abuses them, OD's and dies, who's responsible for the death? I'm not interested in the legalities, we all know about that, I'm interested in blame & personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility and blame . . .

How 'bout the 'Felony Murder Rule'?

If one engages in an illegal activity and as a consequence, someone dies as a direct result of that activity . . .

If bartenders can be charged with a death of a patron due to "continuing to serve" . . . why not dealers?

[HairOfTheDog]

Personal responsibility and blame . . .

How 'bout the 'Felony Murder Rule'?

If one engages in an illegal activity and as a consequence, someone dies as a direct result of that activity . . .

If bartenders can be charged with a death of a patron due to "continuing to serve" . . . why not dealers?

Dealers can and are being criminally charged with manslaughter in some cases.

I personally don't think the bartender or the dealer is ultimately responsible for a death caused by their customers' over-consumption of the product they push. But, a lot of people do.

I agree with LE pursuing the dealer for the specific laws that the dealer broke; but not for homicide/manslaugher. To me, an OD is more like a suicide -- a result of the user's choices, drives, habits...

P.s. Happy Birthday, Tiki!

[BlueTiki]

I personally don't think the bartender or the dealer is ultimately responsible for a death caused by their customers' over-consumption of the product they push.

Doesn't the bartender have a responsibility to prevent harm to the "general public" if a patron, say . . . like aussie, has no control or regard for the health and safety of herself and of others?

Or should they just turn a blind eye and say "Fuck it . . . not my problem."?

And "Thanks.", doll!

[HairOfTheDog]

I personally don't think the bartender or the dealer is ultimately responsible for a death caused by their customers' over-consumption of the product they push.

Doesn't the bartender have a responsibility to prevent harm to the "general public" if a patron, say . . . like aussie, has no control or regard for the health and safety of herself and of others?

Or should they just turn a blind eye and say "Fuck it . . . not my problem."?

And "Thanks.", doll!

I think the bartender has a moral responsibility not to say "fuck it", not a legal one.

I know several bartenders (that's not as incriminating as it sounds!) and none of them hesitates to cut someone off, which is probably easier to do in their neighborhood bars with many patrons being regulars than in some larger serving establishments.

None of the bartenders that I know would let sloshed patrons walk out the doors with keys in hand, or unable to maneuver their feet. The ones that I know personally are decent people. But, they do serve known alcoholics all day long and don't lecture them on rehab or abstinence -- I don't think that's their responsibility either.

Some bartenders aren't so decent or moral and will keep supplying if the customer keeps demanding and paying, no matter what. I think they're assholes, as are a lot of drug dealers, but I don't think it should be illegal not to give a fuck about the choices that other adults make and to consider those adults responsible for their own actions.

I understand both sides, from the legal and moral perspectives. It's just my opinion about how far personal responsibility should extend.

[Duchess]

I don't let my friends drive impaired. If they did override my attempt to get them to stay here it would probably be a dealbreaker as far as our friendship goes. I don't want to feel responsible for the fucked up decisions that others make.

[BlueTiki]

I think the bartender has a moral responsibility not to say "fuck it", not a legal one.

I understand both sides, from the legal and moral perspectives. It's just my opinion about how far personal responsibility should extend.

Strange, isn't it . . . a "dealer" of a legal substance is required to legally exercise the duty "not to serve" an impaired patron?

Not so much with contraband suppliers.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, it's a little strange.

A bartender can be held responsible for continuing to serve a paying customer who then goes out and hurts/kills himself or others; like it's not the drunken customer's responsibility or fault.

But, the dude who's sitting at home drinking all day long and then kills someone when he gets in the car to make another liquor run is considered personally responsible for the death that he caused.

I have responsibility for what I do to my body -- that's my firm belief. Whether I choose to liquor up at home or at a serving establishment, the choice to liquor up and the consequences are on me. If I kill someone while driving drunk, I'm to blame, whether I poured my own drinks or paid someone to pour them for me.

Likewise, If I was walking home from the bar sloshed and someone saw me as an easy target and robbed me, I'd kick myself for putting myself in that position (and I'd want the fucker who made the choice to take advantage of my stupidity and rob me caught and held responsible for his own actions too). I'd not consider the bartender in any way responsible for my getting robbed because he kept pouring my drinks when I paid him to do so.