ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

[Mohammed]

They're war mongering bastards that want to keep other people down, that's why Hitler wanted to get rid of them. They're not doing much different from him actually.

I agree Hamas uses female genital mutilation, and separates the girls from the boys in school. A bunch of other things but you know that.

Where the fuck are you getting your facts from?? Hamas uses FMG?? Are you confused with that latest idiotic statement that went all over the net that ISIS was doing that?

Anyway, imagine the US all of a sudden says "Enough with this shit!", closes all the tunnels from Mexico and makes all those clearly filthy Mexicans live in Mexico City alone. First it was all different of course, the UN itself told those deprived Mexicans "Don't worry, you can also still move around in Acapulco too, so you should be ok since you can go cliff diving now and then.", but alas, a few years down the road America also decides that Acapulco is far too much of a nice place for those evil people with Mustaches and Sombreros. So now they are all in Mexico City.

Now America decides to put a big fucking wall around Mexico City as well, with plenty of barbed wire, and tells all those people living in it that they can not do as they like, but import and export is regulated purely by America. Medicine? Fuck that, you are all naturally sick anyway, so it would be a waste of money. Coast line? The fuck you need 100 km deep coast line like everybody else on the planet like international law states? You are sick, you don't need fish, the boats you got can't manage more than 2 kilometres anyway, easy!

Gaza is clearly Hebrew for Auschwitz.

70 years on and Israel is still telling Germany to pay millions every year for that terrible thing they did that our generation was never involved with and never would. Israel until today manages so perfectly well to look like that innocent victim, getting help and aid from all over the planet for all those terrible things the whole planet did to them since the Spanish Inquisition.

Read the Bible. Moses makes Hitler look like Mother Theresa. If Germany would do the same to Albania I would wonder what would happen. You have a nation that got a GDP equivalent to my monthly salary versus a nation that got the most sophisticated war machinery sponsored by Uncle Sam. Pathetic!

Fuck Israel!

[Duchess]

Fuck Israel!

That's how I feel too & I've taken a great deal of shit the past few weeks for voicing that opinion in the real world. Yet no one can tell me why they support Israel other than the fact that the US does.

[aussiefriend]

Fuck Israel!

That remark is in no way helpful and not helping the plight of the suffering Palestinians. I have spent today arguing with right wing 'Christians' about the violence perpetrated on innocent children and civilians by the Israeli's. By the same account, I do not consent to murder by anyone irrespective of passport, race or color of their skin.

It is wrong 100% what Israel is doing. I do not support the violence and the killing of Palestinians. Having said that I do not support Hamas and the murder of Israeli's or Jewish people. I love arabic people, and I love Jewish people too. Both have very positive aspects to their culture and individuality.

My belief and understanding, and my knowledge is quite substantial, is that if you leave the Palestinians to worship their God and give them their own State, to live and dwell in peace they will not infringe on anyone - at all. Arabic people, are friendly and very hospitable. However, if you get aggressive with them and kill their children they will not sit down and take it. If the Israeli's do not stop their killing and violence this will escalate globally. The other Arab nations will not sit by idle and allow this to occur. Iran has already released a statement.

They need to talk this out and make a deal. Sign it and finish with the violence. It will not be resolved by violence, on the contrary. Once some genius figures that out they will be halfway there.

[Maggot]

Muslims in America would perform (and some do) FGM given the chance. Islam directives almost require it. Hamas is no different. In Indonesia it is standard practice. Don't let the anti-Semitism prevalent in the media get the best of you. Remember when Israel falls the edicts of the Koran become law be it radical or the silent majority and it will not stop there. If you believe that Israel should sit by and become a doormat just say it.

some info yes found on the internet

[aussiefriend]

FGM is one thing, the violence in the Middle East is another. Stop mixing up the issues. If that is part of their culture it is none of your business. I don't agree with it, but I am not a muslim living there. You can't infringe your values and culture on others who are not the same as you.

Murder is murder, killing is killing. Killing a child is wrong, irrespective of race, religion or passport. God is not a racist. He won't care what excuse you give, and if you condone it, or turn a blind eye you are as guilty as those who commit those atrocities. Evil is happening on both sides.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'.

[HairOfTheDog]

Kinda wild to me that the US would scold Israel for the number of deaths yet sell them more ammo.

[Duchess]

That's so embarrassing.

Am I just dumb and not getting it? I don't understand it even a little bit.

[HairOfTheDog]

You're far from dumb.

I get it -- at least I have firm opinions about the rationale behind the US's responses and actions.

My take on it all is based on knowing the history of the establishment of the state of Israel and the physical and ideological battles between the Jews and Palestinians since then + considering the US conventional wisdom and alliances starting in 1947 + tying that into the US's present day relationships and fears in regards to the whole of the Middle East and the current state of each of the ME countries (along with the cross-border fundamentalist Islamic groups/networks in the region).

I'm far from an expert, but don't think it's possible to get the current politics of it by looking only at what's been happening at the Gaza Strip since June 2014, and I don't think it's necessary to go back thousands of years and dissect the religious writings and beliefs to understand it either.

ETA: to filter the facts and news from the rhetoric of both sides and still get a local/regional perspective, for me, it requires reading beyond the NY Times, Washington Post, and CNN for any given account. I usually check out these too:
www.haaretz.com
www.aljazeera.com

[Mohammed]

Muslims in America would perform (and some do) FGM given the chance. Islam directives almost require it. Hamas is no different. In Indonesia it is standard practice. Don't let the anti-Semitism prevalent in the media get the best of you. Remember when Israel falls the edicts of the Koran become law be it radical or the silent majority and it will not stop there. If you believe that Israel should sit by and become a doormat just say it.

some info yes found on the internet

Seriously, where do you get all that shit from? I spend a good 8 years in Indonesia, sort of my second home, my brother lives in Bali since 6 years, my estimate is that I fucked about 300 Indonesian girls and I still have to find one with a cut clit.

It is some weird African, mainly around Somalia, practice and has never happened before in these Islamic parts. Right now if I go out onto the streets of this very Islamic country and ask the next guy if his wife's clit is cut, he will first slap me, then tell me "Mashalla bakala bakala!" which is Arabic for "What the fuck are you talking about?!"

Seriously, who is feeding you this shit?! Fox News?

And Aussie, none of the remarks here is in any way helpful or will be, unless you gonna say "Fuck yeah!", strap on your magazine belt, grab your AK and take the next Qantas flight over to Gaza, then perhaps. But until then, yeah, fuck Israel!

We both know the Arabs are nuts, but I'm living quite peacefully among them for many years and experienced some of the most gracious and respectable moments of my life, but what Israel is doing is just fucked up. It's like Germany going to another country, putting walls and barbed wire around a certain people, then controlling every little bit that goes on in there. There was a place like that and it was called the Warsaw Ghetto.

What Israel is doing is to me the equivalent of all the Blacks in South Africa suddenly starting up Apartheid again just the other way. Surely the world would go "Wtf?!" as they of all people should know the best. Then again, Zimbabwe sure did just that. They are in the shit as we all know. Most probably because Hollywood and De Beers ain't run by Zimbabweans. Among many other things of course.

Russia didn't even shoot down that plane with 290 people inside, but is bombarded with sanctions. Israel killed over a thousand folks by now, yet I don't see anybody screaming "Sanctions!!".

How come?!

[Maggot]

How can you have a truce then lob rockets during the truce and expect retaliation NOT to come? I don't get it either. Does Israel have tunnels into Gaza? This is what happens to humanitarian aid to Gaza.

AMMAN, Feb 9 (Reuters) – Jordan said on Saturday the Islamist Palestinian group Hamas has confiscated a convoy of humanitarian aid sent to people living under an Israeli blockade in the Gaza Strip.

Minister of State for Information Affairs Nasser Joudeh told the state news agency Petra that Hamas members on Thursday seized 16 trucks carrying emergency supplies into Gaza and diverted the cargo to a warehouse run by the Islamist group.

Hamas has ruled the Gaza Strip since June when it routed secular Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who has revived peace talks with Israel.

“We are surprised it should be confiscated and distributed in a manner based on political considerations…this only penalizes those who really deserve this aid,” Joudeh said.

The tunnels.........made from humanitarian aid concrete to Gaza.

[Maggot]

What is the Hamas charter? Have you seen it? All they have to do is show they are willing to live in peace. When given the chance its abused over and over.
And as far as news outlets, I do not trust one single one. They are all out for a buck and nothing more, all of them.

[Duchess]

ETA: to filter the facts and news from the rhetoric of both sides and still get a local/regional perspective, for me, it requires reading beyond the NY Times, Washington Post, and CNN for any given account. I usually check out these too:
www.haaretz.com
www.aljazeera.com

Thank you very much! I am genuinely interested in this.

I don't recall hearing much of anything from over there in recent years until those three teens were killed and now the shit has hit the fan in a major way. I feel sorry for the people on Gaza, I really do. Life goes on for those living in Israel, I'm left with the impression they all go about their daily lives in a normal manner.

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't touched on the Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank in this thread. IMO, that's one of the present day barriers to trusting Israel for Palestinians (not just Hamas), much of the Arab world, and many across the globe really.

Netanyahu is no fan of Obama and practically endorsed Romney in the 2012 elections. That's not only because Obama refused to support military action against Iran and Syria as Netanyahu would have liked, but also because Obama did not back up Netanyahu's justification for continuing to build Jewish settlements on Palestinian ground.

Netanyahu claims the settlements are legal and that he's simply allowing agreed-to existing settlements to expand as needed. However, many look at the map and the settlement and outpost expansions -- plus the Jewish regional birth rates -- and see it as Israel pushing Palestinians out of the desirable areas, in violation of international law.

It's an interesting contributing factor to today's tensions and one of the reasons that Palestinians in the West Bank have come out and shown some solidarity with the people of Gaza by protesting Israel in this latest escalating war between the IDF and Hamas.

[Mohammed]

No, I'm not saying Hamas is right. Far from it, they are taking absolute advantage of the fact that children are being killed and the world starts pointing their finger at Israel. I am sure every time you see a dead child of Gaza on BBC or Jazeera, Hamas is going "Hi hi!"

However, I am also sure that by now, everybody has seen this pic. If not, here it is.



The Holocaust lasted from 1939, Kristallnacht was 38 but the real industry of "The Solution" came up from 1941. WW2 ended 1945. That's 4 years. Gaza is since 1947. That is 67 years!

How did Israel happen?

After World War II, millions of Europeans were living under guard and behind barbed wire fences and without adequate medical care and other services in "displaced persons" camps within Germany and Austria. European Jews then began organizing an underground network known as the Brichah ("flight," in Hebrew), which moved thousands of Jews from the camps to ports on the Mediterranean Sea, so they could then be sent to Palestine by ship. This was part of what was known as Aliyah Bet or the "second immigration," which were a series of attempts by European Jews to immigrate illegally to Palestine before and after World War II.[1] Originally the European Jews arranged transport to Palestine themselves. Later, they requested and received financial and other support from sympathizers elsewhere in the world. The boats were largely staffed by volunteers from the United States, Canada and Latin America.[2] Over 100,000 people tried to illegally immigrate to Palestine, as part of Aliyah Bet.[3]

The British, who were then responsible for administering Palestine, vehemently opposed this kind of large-scale immigration. Displaced person camps run by American, French and Italian officials often turned a blind eye to the situation, with only British officials restricting movement in and out of their camps. In 1945, the British reaffirmed the pre-war policy restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine which had been put in place following the influx of a quarter of a million Jews fleeing the rise of Nazism in the 1930s and had been a major cause of the Arab revolt of 1936–1939. The British then prepared a massive naval and military force to turn back the refugees. Over half of 142 voyages were stopped by British patrols, and most intercepted immigrants were sent to internment camps in Cyprus, the Atlit detention camp in Palestine, and to Mauritius. About 50,000 people ended up in camps, more than 1,600 drowned at sea, and only a few thousand actually entered Palestine.

The Exodus 1947 was the largest Aliyah Bet ship carrying the largest-ever number of illegal immigrants to Palestine and its name and story received a lot of international attention. The incident took place near the end of Aliyah Bet and towards the end of the British mandate, after which Britain withdrew its forces and the state of Israel was established. Historians say Exodus 1947 helped unify the Jewish community of Palestine and the Holocaust-survivor refugees in Europe as well as significantly deepening international sympathy for the plight of Holocaust survivors and rallying support for the idea of a Jewish state.[4][5] One called the story of the Exodus 1947 a "spectacular publicity coup for the Zionists."[6]

If ANY other nation or people would do the same to another people, I wonder what the world would have to say. At least nowadays, because how did America become such a great industrial nation? By Europeans coming to a new land and getting rid of those pesky locals. Australia? Vote for a happy Aborigine before they got all wiped out on Tasmania. Maybe Israel is just doing what everybody else did. Get rid of those annoying locals, and business will be smooth. They sure learned how it's being done.

Do you go to a playground to beat up some kids who have shovels as weapons? Well, I sure don't.

[Duchess]

Wow. I hadn't seen that map before now.

...just because my President supports Israel doesn't mean I do. I don't.

[Maggot]

Another map

[Mohammed]

Well, what can I say?

According to your map all of a sudden where there was no Israel but Palestine, suddenly Israel shows up and kicks the shit out of Egypt and everybody else in close proximity, as well as establishing all the 5 star hotels in Sharm Al Sheik. Now imagine the same thing happening.

Tomorrow all of a sudden you have some fishing boat called "Hop Huen" from Shanghai putting down anchor in Seattle, 2000 Chinese jump onto land and declare California, because the area that you see there that all of a sudden became Israel is holding the Suez Channel, so fuck yeah, Egypt might have had a problem with some new motherfuckers suddenly arriving there and telling them to go and fuck themselves, so all of a sudden California would be not only Chinese, but all the Americans in it, including HotD, which would brake my heart really, would be put into a camp in LA, for LAX's parking lot is bigger than Gaza, and wait for Snake Plissken to come to their rescue.

My own uncle was part of the UN peace keeping troops that was stationed on the Israel-Egypt border during that time. UN soldiers went constantly missing. Until they found out it was Israeli chicks that lured them into the dunes before slicing their throats. Just an interesting side fact.

That map up there just shows some big bully going "You shall never fuck us again world!" Read the old testament, it's the same what Moses did. "Who are those? Fuck them! And I mean ALL of them!"

[Maggot]

The humiliation of the Arabs after the 6 day war was not a win for Israel, It changed the war cry from exterminate the Jews to getting their land back after stating that they would not stop till they were gone.
The original charter is still to eliminate the Jewish state, reclaiming land is a means to an end. Do I think Israel should give them a chance to prove themselves as trustworthy? Yes, but do I think it should be at the risk of committing suicide, No.
Egypt removed the UN and started building up the border preparing for an attack. I believe the Jews were correct in calling their bluff and attacking first.
Does Hamas have control over their legions and are they a viable government willing to truly negotiate and control their rocket brigades? I'm not sure. That has yet to be proven.

[HairOfTheDog]

Holy Moses, Mo.

I go take a shower and come back to find myself living in the LAX parking lot. Jesus Christ, that's some bullshit.

But, you can put the brakes on your braking heart. Jew can't hold me down, baby.

I just happen to have a couple of bottle rockets and a collapsible shovel in my backpack. I'll make it to the terminal with the alcohol, food, and electricity. Oh, yes. Yes, I will.

[Duchess]

I go take a shower and come back to find myself living in the LAX parking lot. Jesus Christ, that's some bullshit.