The Crying Game / TRANSGENDER DISCUSSION

[blueberryhill]

I'm a little surprised at the level of intolerance in this thread.

Donovan, Surely you jest....

[blueberryhill]

I must have overlooked this thread or if I did post, I have forgotten it. It used to be called transgender identity and now it is called gender dysphoria (according to Hair). Did not know that, but did know that it is a legitimate medical condition. Born that way because more female X chromosomes or more male Y ones. Children recognize their feelings don't match their bodies at an early age; doesn't relate to being gay or straight. I don't think Bruce Jenner likes men, I think he still is attracted to women. Very complicated dynamics.
However, I do not think a sex change operation should be paid for by taxpayers. Prisoners are supposed to lost their rights. This is not a case of a life threatening illness. Next they will be paying for women to have breast enhancement surgery so they can feel more feminine. No wonder this State is broke for FFS. No, definitely, no way should this be paid for by State.

[Jimbone]

Born that way because more female X chromosomes or more male Y ones.

Would you mind citing that? Because I don't believe there is any research that can back that up.

From what I've been able to research in all my intolerance, gender dysphoria is primarily a psychological condition... not a physiological one due to the lack of concrete markers to identify it. It's diagnosis can only be accomplished through the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5)... not by genetic or other physiological testing.

On having it paid for by taxpayers or for prisoners, we agree. Hell no! Now let's have some alcohol and hug it out suckers.

[blueberryhill]

Born that way because more female X chromosomes or more male Y ones.

Would you mind citing that? Because I don't believe there is any research that can back that up.

From what I've been able to research in all my intolerance, gender dysphoria is primarily a psychological condition... not a physiological one due to the lack of concrete markers to identify it. It's diagnosis can only be accomplished through the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5)... not by genetic or other physiological testing.

On having it paid for by taxpayers or for prisoners, we agree. Hell no! Now let's have some alcohol and hug it out suckers.

Mr. Bone:

I don't know where you looked, but I stand by my stance that gender dysphoria is a biological/physiological disease, not psychological. I will defend this stance until my death....Years ago the behavioral "experts" called it transgender identity disorder.. Meet me in the meadow at dawn with your sword sharpened for a duel.....my honor has been compromised...

[Duchess]

Would you mind citing that? Because I don't believe there is any research that can back that up.

Just to be clear - you're saying it's a choice and people aren't born that way?

[Jimbone]

Just to be clear - you're saying it's a choice and people aren't born that way?

I'm simply saying there is no physiological testing that can confirm it. It is diagnosed only by criteria set in the DSM-5, which is set by the American Psychiatric Association.

There is no 'extra chromosome' marker, born that way test, or other biologic evidence as BBH suggested. Hell, even the DSM-5 diagnostic guidelines make that clear because the evidence or hypotheses correlating are extremely weak at best. She can defend it to her death, I was just looking for the backup to that defense - which as of now, doesn't exist.

Contrary to her claim, it is treated as a psychological disease, not a physiological one.

I have no idea whether people are born with, develop, or just make it up. And neither does anyone else. Sure we all have our opinions about it, but we don't know. Put ten psychiatrists/psychologists in a room with someone and you will likely not get them all to agree on a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

Just like this thread.

[sally]

I think if your chromosomes are fucked up you're most likely going to be retarded, not gay. Not sure. But I do know some males can have more female hormones and vice versa.

[HairOfTheDog]

There is a push for more research into the causes of transgenderism. Some medical professionals lean towards it being psychiatric in nature. Some medical professionals believe it may have biological roots. And many feel that it may be a combination.

Jimbone is correct in that not all medical professionals agree when it comes to the causes of transgenderism and how to best treat it. There are differing opinions about it within the medical community and the general population, as is the case amongst the Mock members posting in this thread.

However, I don't believe that amongst a group of multi-disciplinary doctors collaborating in a room that any one of them would insist that all transgender-identifying individuals are lying about their self-identification being in conflict with, or extending beyond, their at-birth biological gender categorization.

I also don't believe that any credible medical professional would suggest that transgenderism should cease being recognized in the medical community, or cease being addressed with specific treatments as advocated by the American Medical Association.

Further, since it's an undisputed fact that a portion of the transgender population is not gay and has no desire to have sex change surgery, I would be shocked if any credible medical professional would suggest that those who identify as trans should all be forced into either L, G, or B categories and treated as a bunch of bullshitting, deceitful, self-loathing gays.

[blueberryhill]

Just to be clear - you're saying it's a choice and people aren't born that way?

I'm simply saying there is no physiological testing that can confirm it. It is diagnosed only by criteria set in the DSM-5, which is set by the American Psychiatric Association.

There is no 'extra chromosome' marker, born that way test, or other biologic evidence as BBH suggested. Hell, even the DSM-5 diagnostic guidelines make that clear because the evidence or hypotheses correlating are extremely weak at best. She can defend it to her death, I was just looking for the backup to that defense - which as of now, doesn't exist.

Contrary to her claim, it is treated as a psychological disease, not a physiological one.

I have no idea whether people are born with, develop, or just make it up. And neither does anyone else. Sure we all have our opinions about it, but we don't know. Put ten psychiatrists/psychologists in a room with someone and you will likely not get them all to agree on a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

Just like this thread.

Mr. Bone,
You didn't show up for our duel; oh well, I don't like to get up early, either.
I have not kept updated on the issue of gender identity, but I used to watch a program of a Doctor who performed these "sex changes." I know I should have looked up her name. She herself was a male and now she is female and used to operate out of Trinidad, Colorado, but think she may have moved her practice to the West coast somewhere. She had her patients go through at least a year of living as the gender you wanted to be, psychological testing, etc., before the actual surgery. According to her patients, the results, i.e, changing penis into clitoris and vice versa were a specialty of hers and she did a magnificent job....
I decided to look up this subject to see what latest thinking is; I found some info on web site, American Psychological Association. Use this link for some, hopefully, updated info.

www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

I will just scream if this link doesn't work...

[Clang McFly]

Put it away, Clang, that was NOT an invitation.

As if.

I only whip out my genitals for the ladies' viewing pleasure/displeasure.

(I swear I'm NOT a creep or serial killer...really.)

You are a strange man. I take it that you're attracted to women and not men, right? I understand why you like to cross dress, but why would you want to go all out and have a sex change? You realize if you become a woman you're going to have to fuck men right? Unless by some slim chance there is lesbian out there that wants a woman who used to be a man.

Where did I say I wanted to have a sex change? If I did I must have been on a peanut stand bender. I like women and I like having my penis. I don't think I could ever get used to flicking my bean.

[sally]

I could have sworn you said somewhere that you wanted a sex change, but I've been wrong before.

Oh well, my bad. Sorry for the wrongful accusations.

[Clang McFly]

I could have sworn you said somewhere that you wanted a sex change, but I've been wrong before.

Oh well, my bad. Sorry for the wrongful accusations.

No problem, I have trouble keeping track of my bullshit and eggsackgerations* sometimes, so its probably just as much my fault.

*Easter pun/wordplay

[sally]

I'm sure Jesus got a good chuckle from that one. Lord knows I did.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I almost always kinda believe most of both of your stories, but not always.

I knew sally's Crab Rangoon stuck-in-the-can story was a crock of shit right off the bat. But, whether or not the beer-box-bottom saga was 100% factual, I'm not sure.

As for Clang, I'm still undecided about his killed-a-bunny-in-the-pushmower tale. However, I'm positive that he never said he wanted to have a sex change operation -- he seems completely sincere about really wanting to share, not shear, that little guy.

[Clang McFly]

^ I almost always kinda believe most of both of your stories, but not always.

I knew sally's Crab Rangoon stuck-in-the-can story was a crock of shit right off the bat. But, whether or not the beer-box-bottom saga was 100% factual, I'm not sure.

As for Clang, I'm still undecided about his killed-a-bunny-in-the-pushmower tale. However, I'm positive that he never said he wanted to have a sex change operation -- he seems completely sincere about really wanting to share, not shear, that little guy.

The bunny pushmower accidental murder really did happen. Complete with kung-fu grip and cowardly Clang action. Ok so the kung-fu grip might have been my old GIJOE figures but still I swear the rest is true.

[sally]

If you ever find me stuck on the shitter with a bag of crab Rangoon and a supersized Big Gulp please just shoot me. Then throw me in the river a weigh me down with boulders.

The beer box story was 100% true. That was some damn bullshit.

[HairOfTheDog]

If you ever find me stuck on the shitter with a bag of crab Rangoon and a supersized Big Gulp please just shoot me. Then throw me in the river a weigh me down with boulders.

The beer box story was 100% true. That was some damn bullshit.

I don't own a gun, so I might have to rob a junkie at knife point and then shoot you with heroin instead of bullets before I weigh you down with boulders and toss you into the river.

You'd have to be scarfing down the CR and gulping the 72 ouncer in a shitter in your neck of the woods for me to keep that promise though. If you pulled that crap while you were visiting California, I'd end up having to toss your stinking corpse into a dry river bed or a measly gutter puddle or something -- kinda risky for me.

I'm starting to miss you and resent you at the same time just thinking about it. Just stop eating dinner on the toilet and such sadness and despair can be avoided altogether.

[aussiefriend]

I think if you murder someone and you have a penis you should go to the male prison. Don't turn up 30 years later, when all you have had to do is come up with an escape plan, start a lark like a sex change.

[Maggot]

I think if you murder someone and you have a penis you should go to the male prison. Don't turn up 30 years later, when all you have had to do is come up with an escape plan, start a lark like a sex change.

Bill Cosby knows this, yes he does.

[aussiefriend]

Lay off the hard stuff Maggs I can't understand a word you are saying tonight.