Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests

[Blindgreed1]

You appear to need a reality check more than a break, Gunnar.

I never said or implied that I believe every single protestor's goals and motivations are the same. I never said that because I don't believe that to be the case.

It's YOU who contends that protestors who clearly and specifically stated their goals and motivations (for more peace and less systematic discrimination) are laughable -- as if everyone who's protesting is full of shit or unjustified because they don't feel, think, or view things like you do, or because you don't think protests are warranted or effective.

And yet, the protestors -- many of whom I do believe are pushing for a more just and peaceful community, based on their interviews and statements -- undoubtedly contributed to getting major changes mandated in Ferguson, Missouri. Personally, I hope they succeed in achieving their goals -- the changes have come at a cost, no doubt.
Anyway, your position and ineffective sarcasm here isn't amusing enough to me to call it laughable, but it's definitely eye-roll worthy, IMO. And, you can eye-roll me right back all you like, BF -- I can take it!

I didn't think you were this naive.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I'm listening to the people who live in the community tell me why they're speaking out (then and now) and what they're after. And, I'm listening to you tell me why they're speaking out and what they're after. I am listening to it all, and I'm putting more weight where I feel it belongs.

I'd like to see the residents of Ferguson living in a community where abuse of power and discrimination by police against citizens occurs much less frequently in the future than it apparently does today. There are shit-stirring violent assholes in the community there now and there will be shit-stirring violent assholes in the community there 10 years from now. That's a given, not a prediction, IMO. Hopefully, they'll stand out a whole lot more because there will be fewer such residents and fewer police officers in that batch of bad apples.

You might not think the world will be a better place with less violence, less discrimination, and fewer unwarranted incarcerations of US citizens if the changes aren't in your backyard and don't affect YOU, Gunnar, on a personal level. I disagree. Sue me.

[Blindgreed1]

^ I am listening to the people who live in the community tell me why they're speaking out (then and now) and what they're after. And, I'm listening to you tell me they want and what they're after. I am listening, and then I'll put more weight where I feel it belongs.

I want them to live in a community where abuse of power and discrimination by police against citizens is less than it is today. There are shit-stirring violent assholes in the community there now and there will be shit-stirring violent assholes in the community there 10 years from now. That's a given, not a prediction, IMO. Hopefully, they'll stand out a whole lot more because there will be fewer such residents and fewer police officers in that batch of bad apples.

You might not think the world is a better place with less violence, less discrimination, and unwarranted incarcerations of US citizens if the changes don't affect YOU, Gunnar, on a personal level. I disagree. Sue me.

I won't sue, and I personally don't care if you insinuate that my position is near sighted. The fact to me is simple. They got what they wanted. Why don't they go home and let the people in Ferguson go back to whatever normal life they can live after this shit storm? Doesn't make sense. Generally when things don't make sense there's a reason and it usually isn't for the betterment of society. Time will tell. Last week when I said it was unnecessary, nobody had been shot in the face at a protest in Ferguson. Let's see what the future holds shall we? Let's see where this "protest to stop the violence" ends up. Then we can roll our eyes again. Deal?

[HairOfTheDog]

I didn't think you were this naive.

Seems to be a pattern for you.

I knew you were this egotistical and limited when it comes to assessing people and situations.

But, I've chosen not to hold it against you. You have your good qualities -- I'm sure of it.

[HairOfTheDog]

I won't sue, and I personally don't care if you insinuate that my position is near sighted. The fact to me is simple. They got what they wanted. Why don't they go home and let the people in Ferguson go back to whatever normal life they can live after this shit storm? Doesn't make sense. Generally when things don't make sense there's a reason and it usually isn't for the betterment of society. Time will tell. Last week when I said it was unnecessary, nobody had been shot in the face at a protest in Ferguson. Let's see what the future holds shall we? Let's see where this "protest to stop the violence" ends up. Then we can roll our eyes again. Deal?

No deal.

Your logic is circular and flawed, IMO. Sometimes the eyerolls are just reflex for me when reading it.

You complained about the protests from the start, when they were underway, after they ended... You characterized all of the protestors negatively, then and now. You've made your voice heard in terms of anti-discrimination protests in general. Etc...

The shooting on Wednesday hasn't altered or bolstered your position, in my view.

[Blindgreed1]

I won't sue, and I personally don't care if you insinuate that my position is near sighted. The fact to me is simple. They got what they wanted. Why don't they go home and let the people in Ferguson go back to whatever normal life they can live after this shit storm? Doesn't make sense. Generally when things don't make sense there's a reason and it usually isn't for the betterment of society. Time will tell. Last week when I said it was unnecessary, nobody had been shot in the face at a protest in Ferguson. Let's see what the future holds shall we? Let's see where this "protest to stop the violence" ends up. Then we can roll our eyes again. Deal?

No deal.

Your logic is circular and flawed, IMO. Sometimes the eyerolls are just reflex for me when reading it.

You complained about the protests from the start, when they were underway, after they ended... The shooting on Wednesday hasn't altered or bolstered your position, in my view.

You're entitled to your opinion. After posting my last post I made a quick check of what's going on and it seems tempers are flaring again. I give it 10 years and Ferguson will be 99% ghetto and the people there raising hell right now wopn't step foot in it. Business and homeowners will treat Ferguson like the plague. Ferguson... The new Detroit. Well done protestors. You certainly made some changes.

[HairOfTheDog]

All of your points are based only on your personal views and your worst-case predictions -- they don't take into account the words or views of those directly involved and those affected. I don't think you can even entertain the possibility that some responsibility for the current climate in Ferguson lies both with the community members and the police force/city officials. Luckily, some of the police and city officials don't have that limitation.

Your positions don't seem to acknowledge the existing problems, they don't appear to consider historical social changes (for the better) that have indeed resulted from similar circumstances, and it seems to me they're set in concrete regardless of situational factors -- and that's that, for you.

And, that's fine. But, it's not naive for people to consider factors outside of themselves and have a broader perspective than the world according to Gunnar. It's not naive for people to embrace change and hope for improvement, knowing that the changes might fail. But, I understand why you specifically would want to label people with a different outlook as "naive", and probably even need to believe it.

I hope that you at least want to be wrong in your guess that the situation will be worse, rather than better, in 10 years.

[Blindgreed1]

All of your points are based only on your personal views and your worst-case predictions -- they don't take into account the words or views of those directly involved and those affected. I don't think you can even entertain the possibility that some responsibility for the current climate in Ferguson lies both with the community members and the police force/city officials. Luckily, some of the police and city officials don't have that limitation.

Your positions don't seem to acknowledge the existing problems, they don't appear to consider historical social changes (for the better) that have indeed resulted from similar circumstances, and it seems to me they're set in concrete regardless of situational factors -- and that's that, for you.

And, that's fine. But, it's not naive for people to consider factors outside of themselves and have a broader perspective than the world according to Gunnar. It's not naive for people to embrace change and hope for improvement, knowing that the changes might fail. But, I understand why you specifically would want to label people with a different outlook as "naive", and probably even need to believe it.

I hope that you at least want to be wrong in your guess that the situation will be worse, rather than better, in 10 years.

I don't believe you have any facts to back up that theory, so for now we'll call it your hypothesis. Time will tell.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, we've got some time to kill then.

I'm headed down to your Mosh Pit.

And, I'm gonna post whatever I want -- whether you protest it or not!

[Blindgreed1]

Well, we've got some time to kill then.

I'm headed down to your Mosh Pit.

And, I'm gonna post whatever I want -- whether you protest it or not!

All are welcome in my mosh pit. I don't discriminate

[HairOfTheDog]

The man who shot the two police officers on Wednesday night was caught and arrested this weekend.

In a press conference, LE thanked the public for tips that led to the apprehension and arrest.


The suspect, ^ 20-year-old Jeffrey Williams, is a parolee. He reportedly admitted to the shootings which occurred as a protest was ending, following the resignation of the Ferguson Police Chief.

Police say they have the gun that Williams used, a .40 caliber, which matches shell casings found out the scene.

Williams reportedly claims that he was aiming at someone else with whom he'd had an altercation. Police are skeptical of his claim, but are investigating motive.

St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch claims that Williams was part of the protest movement in Ferguson. The protestors and community leaders say that's not true and that none of them knew or had seen Williams there before; regardless, they condemn the shootings.

Williams is being held on $300,000 cash bond. He is charged with two counts of first-degree assault, a count of firing a weapon from a vehicle and three counts of armed criminal activity.

Peaceful protests against police brutality and discrimination, alongside peaceful demonstrations supporting the Ferguson PD and mayor, were held this weekend.

[Maggot]

Well well. Whats this?

Were the Ferguson protests a spontaneous expression of community outrage or an orchestrated campaign with paid "protesters"? It's looking more and more like the latter.

Early on, there were signs that protests over the shooting of an unarmed black man by a white cop were less than meets the eye.

In December, IBD noted that most of the protesters getting arrested weren't local residents but people bussed in from groups like the New Black Panthers, the U.S. Human Rights Network and the ANSWER Coalition.

Later, after the riots in Baltimore erupted, Fox News reported that as many as 50 social media accounts were tied to both those and the Ferguson protests, suggesting the presence of "professional protesters."

Now some of the "protesters" themselves are complaining that they never got paid.


In mid-May, Millennial Activists United organized a sit-in at the Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment offices. The reason: MORE owed the protesters money.

The group complained that MORE "created a joint account in which national donors from all over the world have donated over $150,000 to sustain the movement," but "the poor black people of this movement ... have seen little to none of that money."

A letter posted by the group went on to claim, "Organizers and protesters depleted $50,000 of the available funds and dispersed it among the people in the movement in no particular order." They even started a Twitter hashtag to encourage MORE to cough up the money: #cutthecheck.

There's nothing wrong with protesters getting paid. It's a free country, and they have to make a living, too. But maybe these protesters should think about joining a union before they hit the streets next time.




They will eat their own link

[HairOfTheDog]

Paid protestors has been a practice for a long time Mags.

Many of the Ferguson residents told them to stay away, as did those in Charlottsville and Baltimore.

They're viewed as infiltrators by community leaders and residents in many cases, but they can't be forced to stay away.

[Maggot]

I will log that into my memory banks alongside "paid voters"

[Duchess]

Many of the Ferguson residents told them to stay away, as did those in Charlottsville and Baltimore.

I heard them say that every single time someone had a microphone in their face.

[Maggot]

But did they? And was it a contributing factor in the rioting? How far does " but, we were getting paid " go? Is paid looting and instigating legal? All contributing factors in "bedlam central"
Who is liable? Judge Judy would say "Don't spit on my cupcake and call it frosting!"

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't even understand what the hell you're talking about, Mr. Serling.

People get paid by activist organizations to attend protests and demonstrations, sign petitions, weigh in a yea or nay at public hearings, etc...

If anyone breaks the law during those activities, whether they're paid or unpaid, they're responsible for their criminal actions all the same.

[HairOfTheDog]

Ferguson in State of Emergency at Michael Brown Anniversary Protests



Most of the protestors have been peaceful, according to reports. Protestors have held vigils for Michael Brown and chanted for police and criminal justice reform.

But, one of Michael Brown's good friends reportedly took a shot at officers patrolling the protests. He was shot and is in critical condition. Dumbass.

After the shooting, rumors swirled and some protestors started throwing frozen water bottles and such at officers, leading to many arrests.

"Safety, our top priority, is now compromised. This is no longer a peaceful protest. Participants are now unlawfully assembled," the St. Louis County Police Department tweeted.


Now, ^ heavily-armed members of a controversial right-wing "patriot" group called The Oath Keepers organization have shown up on the scene, uninvited. They are former military, police and first responders who say they pledge to "defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

However, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar described their presence as "both unnecessary and inflammatory."

Several protesters confronted members of the group, asking why they were allowed to openly carry weapons. "I'm happy that we're able to defend ourselves," one Oath Keeper replied in footage from NBC station KSDK. "It's been our right for a long time."

The St. Louis County Police Department said it would consult with the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorneys Office about the legalities of the issue. Missouri allows individuals with concealed weapons permits to openly display firearms, unless it is done in an "angry or threatening manner."

Refs:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/ferguso...index.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael...ri-n407696

[Maggot]

It must suck to be a cop there. You have to stand there and take all the taunts and threats hurled at you as you stand there. It seems the cops were there not for security but to be whipped and flogged in the town square with a smile. I cannot for the life of me think of one good reason to be a cop in Ferguson.

[Midwest Spy]

Again, for me, Michael Brown (of all the people gunned down by cops in the last year), garners the least amount of sympathy.

I still believe the officers account that Brown charged him and I feel the shooting was warranted.

Yet, Ferguson continues to be a hell hole where blacks are unfairly treated and downright persecuted?

I'm not buying it.