THE 'WHO'S TO BLAME?' THREAD

[sally]

The mother lost that fight a long time ago, the kid grew up to the old age of 13 and was a douch. Mom and dad should have busted her ass a long time ago and made a decent human out of her.

So you and Donovan know these people?

She was a 13 year old girl that did something really stupid. They do that sometimes. I know that's hard for you and Donovan to understand being the perfect parent's that you are. Jesus Christ .

[blueberryhill]

O.K.this comment may not win many friends, but here goes....
I do not understand why some of you are so quick to judge others, and to top it off, before you even know the facts in the case. We all know how the news media can screw up the facts.
You can be ideal parents and still have a difficult child to deal with. Sometimes it is lack of parenting, but sometimes it is just the luck of the draw...This child would not be the first young lady that has thrown a temper tantrum in a power struggle with mom.....Your scathing remarks about the mom might really be undeserved. Some of you make it sound like you will, or did raise a perfect child and if so, congratulations. You can pass on your morals, views, genetics, etc. and pray that your kid turns out o.k. It is difficult to parent ²⁴⁄₇ especially when child reaches age when he/she pushes parents away. Someone suggested locking her in the house. One call to Child Protection and you just might have to go to Court..
Some parents deserve to have their kids taken from them, but sadly that isn't usually done in a timely manner and they may be subjected to more abuse in a foster family....Most of us do the best we can raising our kids, but it bothers me when people attack the parents every time their child does something "bad."
Hold your judgments until you know the facts.....This was the "perfect storm" in that the driver who hit mom and daughter apparently had been drinking. Put that together with a rebellious child in the midst of a temper tantrum and crash, one person dead. Very sad...

[sally]

Do you remember that time the Beaver and Whitey climbed up the coffee cup sign or when the Beav got stuck in the tree? Guess who's fault it was? Yep, June and Ward. Those scumbags.

[Duchess]

June and Ward. Those scumbags.

I always knew there was something wrong with those freaks. Who wears pearls to make a meatloaf and calls their kid Beaver.

[Duchess]

They make me sick.

[Duchess]

[Donovan]

I know that at some point before this event, that kid got the idea from a prior experience that a middle of the road tantrum was an effective way to deal with mom. And that's mom's fault. Unless the kid was a total psychotic she was being treated way too leniently and was at least one assbeating short of her lifetime supply. Probably if she had kicked the kid's ass a couple times the kid might still be alive and she wouldn't be burying her. If my kid tried that even one goddamn time I'd have whooped his little ass all the way home for it, because some things you just do not fuck around with, and playing in the road is one of them.

Now that's if the kid wasn't a psychotic bi-polar little shit. But in THAT case, the kid had no business being shepherded around to 4-H meetings. You lock them little fuckers down until they learn and practice respect. It isn't rocket science, and you aren't their goddamn buddy you're their parent. Too many forget that these days. And now that kid is dead because momma dropped the ball and the kid was an idiot.

Well, that's an about-face, Donovan. Wasn't it you who said that clearly punishing kids for bad behavior was ineffective and that jedi mind tricks as a form of behavior modification was the way to go?

I'm not assuming the girl was psychotic or bipolar, nor that her mom was somehow unfit or too lenient. That might be the case, but that's not what teachers, friends and family are saying about her/them. In any event, Trinity obviously should not have been planted in the middle of road and her mom is devastated.

As for how the girl and her mom could not have seen the car coming, we don't know yet if the driver came around a corner suddenly, or was simply going too fast for the mom and child to get out of the road in time, or if the driver had her lights on... People get run over by cars, sometimes they see them coming and sometimes they don't. Witnesses are being interviewed and the investigation is expected to be completed in two months, according to police.

No, my opinion and the associated skillset hasn't changed, and the proactive "jedi mindtrick" approach is almost always best. But that means exactly what I said above...there are some situations so immediately life-threatening and dangerous they require immediate and decisive action. You do not fucking argue with a child who is sitting in the road. You get them off the road and whale the shit out of them while you are doing it, because the alternative is scraping bits of her out of some poor half-drunk woman's grill.

Sally is arguing silly shit like who gets front seats and whatnot and trying to defend an idiot who now has one dead kid, and there is no excuse for that. That mother failed in her one fucking job, to keep the kid alive until the kid knew enough to do the job on her own. She failed to teach the kid not to sit in the fucking highway, she failed to teach the kid that tantrums are unacceptable at age 13, she failed to keep her daughter safe from the drunken fools of the world.

And now she gets to bury her. The world is a horrible and violent place. Tragedies happen, and sometimes kids die. But our job as parents is to make that as unlikely as we possibly can.

[Donovan]

The mother lost that fight a long time ago, the kid grew up to the old age of 13 and was a douch. Mom and dad should have busted her ass a long time ago and made a decent human out of her.

So you and Donovan know these people?

She was a 13 year old girl that did something really stupid. They do that sometimes. I know that's hard for you and Donovan to understand being the perfect parent's that you are. Jesus Christ .

MY kid is still breathing and knows enough to stay out of the fucking road. He also knows that a tantrum gets him exactly nothing. He learned that at three. I don't claim perfection, never did, in fact I've told him the best I can hope for is not to fuck him up the same ways my parents did and hope for the best. But my job is to make a man out of him, not be his buddy or his fucking wellvisit counselor. I'm his father. And I don't stop to consider whether child protective services, or onlooking minors, or who the fuck ever is disapproving when I need to act in that capacity.

PS my kid also knows how and when to use the possessive apostrophe when describing a plural object. But that's more a jedi mind-trick. I wouldn't expect drunken bad Florida moms to aim that high.

[sally]

Sally is arguing silly shit like who gets front seats and whatnot and trying to defend an idiot who now has one dead kid, and there is no excuse for that. That mother failed in her one fucking job, to keep the kid alive until the kid knew enough to do the job on her own. She failed to teach the kid not to sit in the fucking highway, she failed to teach the kid that tantrums are unacceptable at age 13, she failed to keep her daughter safe from the drunken fools of the world.

I'm not getting your rationale here.

1: We don't know if the driver was speeding or not. Do you think construction workers always see it coming when they get killed? And if so is it their fault for not moving out of the way of the drunk driver fast enough?

2:Teenagers will do stupid shit on a whim no matter how perfect a parent you think you are. You can set examples which molds their character, but you cant control every stupid fucking thing they do in life. Take a look at yourself. Get off your high horse.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I understand the benefits of exercising immediate discipline, doling out PUNISHMENT, nipping things in the bud, correctly using possessive apostrophes, avoiding positioning oneself as a kid's buddy -- all the usual stuff that comes up in parenting discussions. I even have a grasp on the jedi mind trick gig.

The details of the story, however, don't lead me, personally, to believe that the girl must have been an overall idiot, a bad kid, a psycho, or bi-polar. Nor am I convinced that the mom was a lax parental loser who could have saved her child's life had she locked her in her room or beaten her ass sometime in the past.

It's interesting reading other people's opinions and assumptions though.

[sally]

Yeah, I understand the benefits of exercising immediate discipline, doling out PUNISHMENT, nipping things in the bud, correctly using possessive apostrophes, avoiding positioning oneself as a kid's buddy

Then smack, you hit a fat kid sitting in the street. You pay your insurance on time and do everything right. The next thing you know your insurance company jacks up your rate.

You question why your rate went up. The better question is why don't you have Liberty Mutual.

[HairOfTheDog]

The better question is why don't you have Liberty Mutual.

That's a good question. Another good question: Why the hell didn't I just light up a joint rather than drink them Mike's Hard Lemonades on the drive home?

I followed a link to a related story when I came across the OP article this morning. Another sad one.

Kristi Clark took her son Carter Oakley out sledding on Feb. 18^th in Tennessee. Then they went to the grocery store. On the way home, they came across an SUV that had turned over after apparently skidding in the snow on Hwy 65.

So, Kristi and her little boy got out of the car to help the people who'd crashed. They were on the side of the road when a semi truck hit them both. The truck driver saw them, but was unable to stop in time.

Mother and son both died (the people in the overturned SUV survived their crash, though). Police say that Kristi and Carter, RIP, are heroes.



Would you pull over to help and let your child out of the car on the side of the highway like that? Is Kristi Clark to blame for her own death and the death of her son?

[sally]

I'd probably just call 911, I'm not trying to be a hero in a situation where most likely there isn't a lot I can do anyway. And if I did decide to get out of the car I'd make my kid stay in there. She made a mistake. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Duchess]

I wouldn't have dared pull something like that with either one of my parents.

How do you get a 13 yr. old to do something they don't want to do? Obviously the kid had zero respect for her mother and about the same amount for herself. She acted like a little bitch and got herself killed. It's awful, it's a horrible thing but it's her own fault.

[ramseycat]

Does Donovan even have kids of his own??

[Duchess]

He has a teenage son.

I don't have kids but it doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion.

[ramseycat]

I don't see you acting all high and mighty about parenting Duchess. It's the hardest job ever. And no one thinks when they have kids that it will be the way it is. We all think it will be so wonderful. And at times it is. Other times it sooooooo isn't.

[Duchess]

I can't imagine going through some of the stuff I've seen a few of you go through. I'm pretty sure I would suck at it. I don't have patience for some of the dumb shit I read about and see others go through. I'm not even sure I'm capable of loving someone so much that I'd move heaven & hell to help them.

[Carsman]

O.K.this comment may not win many friends, but here goes....
I do not understand why some of you are so quick to judge others, and to top it off, before you even know the facts in the case. We all know how the news media can screw up the facts.
You can be ideal parents and still have a difficult child to deal with. Sometimes it is lack of parenting, but sometimes it is just the luck of the draw...This child would not be the first young lady that has thrown a temper tantrum in a power struggle with mom.....Your scathing remarks about the mom might really be undeserved. Some of you make it sound like you will, or did raise a perfect child and if so, congratulations. You can pass on your morals, views, genetics, etc. and pray that your kid turns out o.k. It is difficult to parent ²⁴⁄₇ especially when child reaches age when he/she pushes parents away. Someone suggested locking her in the house. One call to Child Protection and you just might have to go to Court..
Some parents deserve to have their kids taken from them, but sadly that isn't usually done in a timely manner and they may be subjected to more abuse in a foster family....Most of us do the best we can raising our kids, but it bothers me when people attack the parents every time their child does something "bad."
Hold your judgments until you know the facts.....This was the "perfect storm" in that the driver who hit mom and daughter apparently had been drinking. Put that together with a rebellious child in the midst of a temper tantrum and crash, one person dead. Very sad...

Agree, well said!

[Maggot]

Children need guidance from the day they are born you do not attempt to change their attitude when they are teenagers you start when they are born. An adult cannot be lazy and let the television raise their kids. Morality and respect are learned not imbedded in DNA.