OBAMA'S LEGACY

[HairOfTheDog]

I think President Obama's speech at the eulogy for Senator Clementa Pinckney will be a prominent part of his legacy.





And, Gunnar -- along the lines of what we were discussing upthread -- while I don't share their views, I respect the rights of these southerners and others across the country to assemble publicly and protest what they feel is discrimination against them.

[Maggot]

If anything this President will be known for stirring as much controversy as possible, good or bad I don't think he cares as long as the spotlight is on him. A President of the minority and a leader of dissent.

[blueberryhill]

Well, I just lost my entire reply....I could just scream.....

Obamacare is a good thing. It is only discussed in context of political debates. How about we have a discussion with consumers, doctors, hospitals, etc. in a town meeting and really discuss this. More people have health insurance now than any time in history....who do you think paid for uninsured people before....
We know now it is working and we don't have to wait 4 or 5 years to determine this.....

Leader of dissent? There was no dissent prior to Mr. Obama?......We were divisive and dissenting all over the place, but like a boil, it has been brought to a head so that true healing can ensue. We fear change, but it is time for progress, not regression. Some politicians seek to take us back to an earlier time...The fight for equal rights continues and we are making progress, but still a long way to go.....

I think Mr. Obama will go down in history as one of our great Presidents. I think he has values and wants what is best for all the people, not just special groups. Today's minorities will be tomorrow's majorities......our demographics are changing and the majority voted for Mr. Obama twice.

One final note, I don't think Mr. Obama is seeking the spotlight for personal gain....he can laugh at himself; i have seen humility, pride, pain, joy, sadness, humor, etc. in his face just like other humans display.

[HairOfTheDog]

However he ends up being remembered historically, this week was a pivotal one.

The Affordable Health Care Act/ObamaCare was upheld by the Supreme Court, same-sex marriage was legalized, and he finally and very passionately addressed directly the issue of civil rights and racial equality.

I think some of his eulogy was theatrical and opportunistic, but I also think it was powerful and it doesn't seem that anybody in attendance was anything but positively affected.

Obama lost me altogether by the end of his first term, but I've felt more positively about him in his second. Now, I think he might end up being a President who's remembered largely for moving the country closer towards equality for all than anything else. But, he's still got over a year left of work to do.

Anyway, if he continues to accomplish some of his first and second term goals and the Republicans don't change up some of their positions on social issues, I think the chances of a Democratic win in 2016 will be greatly increased. If so, paving the way for at least 12 consecutive years of Democratic Presidential leadership will be part of his legacy too, IMO.

These are interesting times.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Interesting times indeed.
The No1 asshole anti gun pres ever and this is what he has done

http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/yeehaw-thi...s-explode/

He has been the most devisive president in history

I couldn't give less of a shit about the gays, just get your rainbow shit off my facebook.
So last year he was looking to make it very hard to buy guns and there are all kinds of idiots calling to disarm us.
But, short sighted goals and this is what you get.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's an interesting point that I hadn't thought about before Six.

I think you're probably right that gun control will be a negative mark on Obama's legacy (though not likely an overshadowing one IMO). He seems to have pissed off the gun lovers, disappointed the moderates, and pissed off the gun haters.

I don't think Obama's Executive Orders and failed attempt to get universal background checks passed was more aggressive gun control policy than any other president though.

I remember reading a bit about gun control history in the U.S. back when you, F.U., Jimbone, Mags, MS and a few others of us were discussing/debating gun control after Sandy Hook.

FDR wanted to tax all guns and create a federal registry. Carter wanted to ban all semi-automatics and create a federal registry. Clinton banned some gun types for a decade, I think. Those policies strike me as more aggressive than Obama's.

During Obama's presidency, no guns or ammo have been restricted. And, the failed universal background check bill, supported by 90% of Americans, expressly stated on the first page that there would be no attempt or permission to create a national registry, under the law.

Anyway, gun policy is definitely a divisive issue for every president. Seems like it has been since at least the 50s. You seem to look very negatively on Obama for what he attempted to do in regards to gun control, and I look slightly negatively upon him for what he failed to do in regards to gun control (failing to get the UBC bill passed -- though I concede he faced obstacles largely outside his control).

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens in terms of gun policy changes under the next President's administration.

[blueberryhill]

I don't know why gun supporters are upset; no one is trying to take their guns away, but the majority of people want more background checks, waiting period of a minimum of 48 hours, special permits to open/concealed carry (and why would most citizens need to do this?), more that a 1 hour lecture about gun safety. I know it varies from State to State, and that is a problem right there. I believe there should be universal laws re weapons. Too many innocent people are dying and that is the bottom line....No one is trying to take your hunting rifle away, your target practice gun, etc.....I believe that we should have a universal gun registry. Crimes have been solved by various natural registries to include guns....e.g., detectives from one state tracked the serial number of the gun to another state and eventually (it took several years) they found the killer.....I just want more of an effort to keep the guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, the psychos, crazies, haters, idiots, irresponsible, negligent, short fused nut jobs, etc.

[Jimbone]

Interesting that no one mentioned the disastrous foreign policy Obama has presided over. That's going to be a major part of his legacy, and there isn't much to like.

[sally]

Personally he hasn't done anything to affect my life negatively or positively. Like HotD said, I don't see anywhere that he restricted guns or ammo in any way. WTF are people freaking out about?

Obamacare? So what, you have to pay a small total household tax if you don't have insurance, that's not a big dent in my pocket. At least I can get insurance if I have a pre-existing condition which wasn't possible before.

Foreign policy? I'd say George Bush was a bigger fuck up.

[HairOfTheDog]

Interesting that no one mentioned the disastrous foreign policy Obama has presided over. That's going to be a major part of his legacy, and there isn't much to like.

Just off the top of my head, in terms of foreign policy...

-I like that relations are being rebuilt with Cuba after half a century; I think it's long overdue.

-I like that Obama does not support Israeli PM Netanyahu's policies even when they're wrong (IMO); specifically the expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. That big "fuck you all" expansion is overwhelmingly viewed as a violation of international law outside of Israel (and by many inside of Israel as well).

-I like that a nuclear deal with tight controls is being pursued with Iran; I think it's a better option for the U.S., Israel and the world than the U.S. going to war with Iran on behalf of Israel. Plus, I think Iran's Shiite regime is key to pushing back ISIS expansion and that better relations between the U.S. and Iran are in both country's best interests.

-I like that Syria was boxed into destroying its chemical weapons under Obama's administration. I also like that the U.S. did not blindly arm the "rebels" early on; many of whom were not fighting Assad for Syrian liberation but instead were Islamic Fundamentalists exploiting the civil war and attempting to create a caliphate in the secular country. And, I like that the U.S. is not storming into the Middle East and instead has formed alliances with Middle Eastern countries and NATO to fight ISIS in Iraq and Syria. I hate what's happening in Syria, but I don't know how it should best be addressed or if the U.S. could/should do anything better.

-I like that the U.S. has supported/partnered with the Kurds in Iraq and Syria to push back ISIS.

-I like that the U.S. is working towards reciprocal economic gains with China.

The Bergdahl exchange, the absence of U.S. top leadership at the post-Hebdo unity march in France, the U.S. surveillance of European leaders' private communications... are foreign policy/relations actions which I dislike or don't support based on my current understanding.

[Duchess]

I like all of that ^^^^^^. All facts.

[Carsman]

HotD is the BOMB!



(They still use that, right?)

[Clang McFly]

HotD is the BOMB!



(They still use that, right?)

Everywhere but high security areas like airports.

[Jimbone]

Iran can't be trusted, ISIS continues to grow and expand, Syria is as much of a flashpoint as it was during the first 'red line', China continues its march towards dominance, Yemen has collapsed because our pals in Iran are supporting the rebels. And Cuba? It's a cold war relic still run by communist dictators last I checked. It's also about as consequential as Bermuda. It will be a nice place to visit I guess as a new tourist trap.

Yes, it's all going fabulously. Here's some recent context for anyone interested in different views or facts:

Iran Legislation Seeks to Bar Inspections of Military Sites Under a Nuclear Deal
http://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-legisla...1434928693
Iran’s parliament approved draft legislation on Sunday that would bar inspections of military sites as part of a nuclear deal with the U.S. and five other world powers.

Western officials suggest Iran tries to wiggle out of nuclear pledges
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/2...BM20150628
Iran is backtracking from an interim nuclear agreement with world powers three months ago, Western officials suggested on Sunday, as U.S. and Iranian officials said talks on a final accord would likely run past a June 30 deadline.

Kerry: Syrian regime 'absolutely' used chlorine in attacks
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/politics/j...-chlorine/
Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday said he was "absolutely certain" that the Syrian government had attacked its own people with chlorine.

Syria Is Using Chemical Weapons Again, Rescue Workers Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/world/....html?_r=0
Eyes watering, struggling to breathe, Abd al-Mouin, 22, dragged his nephews from a house reeking of noxious fumes, then briefly blacked out. Even fresh air, he recalled, was “burning my lungs.”

Syria Assad Regime May Have Sarin Gas, Other Chemical Weapons: WSJ Report
http://www.ibtimes.com/syria-assad-regim...rt-1987366
Chemical weapons may soon be released by the Assad regime in a large scale attack in Syria, U.S. officials told the Wall Street Journal in a report published Sunday. U.S. intelligence agencies have been focused on analyzing the type of chemical that could be deployed and what could trigger its use, officials who were briefed on the situation disclosed.

ISIS Anniversary: The Year Since Caliphate Was Declared
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-te...ed-n381621
One year after a caliphate was declared spanning Syria and Iraq, there is little to celebrate — unless you're ISIS. Despite a massive international campaign to defeat the the brutal militants, ISIS has not only managed to hold onto the territory but has expanded its reach beyond those borders over the last 12 months.

"It's been a great year for ISIS," according to Matthew Henman, head of IHS Jane's Terrorism and Insurgency Center. "This would be close to a best-case scenario for them."

Turkey Plans to Invade Syria, But to Stop the Kurds, Not ISIS
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...e-war.html
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is planning a military intervention into northern Syria to prevent Syrian Kurds from forming their own state there, despite concerns among his own generals and possible criticism from Washington and other NATO allies, according to reports in both pro- and anti-government media.

Obama's anti-terror strategy suffers setback in Yemen
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/politics/y...-strategy/
President Barack Obama has pointed to Yemen to boast that his new global anti-terror strategy was thriving. But with Iranian-backed rebels now overrunning the U.S. ally tasked with beating back local al Qaeda affiliates, the nation at the tip of Arabian Peninsula makes a better case study in the approach's limitations.

China crosses Obama’s cyber ‘red line’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/c...story.html
Remember how President Obama failed to enforce his “red line” in Syria? Well, it’s happening again — this time in cyberspace.

US, China appear to get little done in removing economic barriers
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/2...H620150624
The United States and China urged each other on Wednesday to remove barriers to foreign investment, saying that business ties were vital to overall relations, although they appeared to achieve little beyond rhetoric at a high profile three-day meeting that was overshadowed by security rivalries.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Jimbone.

I've read a lot of pro and con pieces as the policies have evolved and been covered in the news, and formed my opinions along the way.

My opinions are based on the policies themselves and how they align with my view of what's right (or less wrong) for achieving the desired goals and addressing pressing problems.

My opinions might change as circumstances change or new factors are introduced into the policy equations. One thing that's not a factor for me is the identity of the President responsible for the policies. I'm looking only at the policies themselves and how they align with my personal and political ideals.

I completely understand that other people will read the same pro and con pieces and form their own opinions, some similar to mine and some polar opposite.

[HairOfTheDog]

Today is the 71^st anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima.

No sitting U.S. President has visited Hiroshima since the bombing, until President Obama.



Some historians, professors, pundits and such believed that he should issue an apology. He did not.

Instead, he focused on the nuclear threat to all humans, paid tribute to the dead and survivors, and spoke about the alliance built between our two countries over the decades.

I'm glad he did not apologize on this one; I don't think an apology is in order. I'm also glad he made the historic visit and speech.

Here's the transcript: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/...d=tw-share

[Duchess]

I'm glad he did not apologize on this one; I don't think an apology is in order. I'm also glad he made the historic visit and speech.

That's precisely how I feel about it too.

[F.U.]

I will 3^rd that feeling.

[Maggot]

Has he left Japan yet?

[Duchess]

Has he left Japan yet?

He doesn't depart until 7:00 PM, he'll be back at the White House at 10:15 PM EST after stopping to refuel in Alaska.