POLICE BRUTALITY CASES: WALTER SCOTT MURDER & MORE

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Six. I don't want to learn how to make Maple Syrup Walnut Salmon and only want Peace on Earth for Christmas , but I seriously appreciate you sharing your insight and experience.

I also appreciate that you don't always stick with "the cop was right/justified" in all cases, no matter what the details of the cases reveal. It's case by case for me, in my Monday morning quarter-backing, and I try to have as much evidence and be as objective as possible before drawing conclusions.

Anyway, I agree with you that cops lives are no less valuable than the lives of those they've sworn to serve and protect. But, I don't think their lives should be regarded as more valuable than everyone they approach with or without justified suspicion. I think some cops and some of the public believes the latter to be true and believes that everyone assaulted/shot/killed by cops deserves what they got and that's that.

We were kind of taught that cops are always right when I was growing up. While I still respect police officers and the service they provide as a whole, I know that absolute premise is absolutely false.

I think it perpetuates the problem of bad policing when people are condemned for acknowledging and protesting questionable or unwarranted police brutality. It gives unqualified and bad cops a license to continue business as usual, which puts the public and good cops at unnecessary risk. Likewise, when people condemn all cops and insist that they should be indicted every time they use physical force or shoot, it leads to other problems like police de-motivation, false cries of police brutality, etc...

I think most cops understand that they're not military and not at war with the public (though, I acknowledge that some patrols are more like war zones than others) and do the best they can to serve, protect, and enforce the law in a balanced way. But, without a doubt, there are more than a couple power-tripping, lazy, unbalanced, unqualified, lying cops running around with guns and badges. Those bad cops should not be shielded by their employers and the justice system.

Anyway, the police reforms that appear to have bi-partisan support are encouraging to me. I think we should invest in our police forces and arm cops with much more assessment/crisis management/negotiation training. I think we should invest in body cams for all cops so they're more motivated to adhere to policies and laws, the people they're interacting with are more motivated to respect the law and law enforcement, and there's more objective evidence as to what went down when police interactions lead to claims of brutality or lead to death.

When almost all of the cops' on-going training is focused on how to use tangible tools like tasers, batons, and shooting the core (which is shooting to kill, in many cases) when they feel fear, it's no wonder that cops too often find themselves in situations that lead to controversial killings by police; killings that might have been avoided by a more strategic approach and tactic. I don't know if there are more bad cops now or if we're just seeing it more often due to the proliferation of video (or both). But, there is a lot of room for improvement. That's my take.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Case of Corey Jones -- Florida

I'm looking forward to the release of details surrounding the actual evidence as to what the hell happened the night Corey Jones was shot to death on the side of the road.

I hope those details come soon, for Corey's family and for the sake of peace. Corey was killed on October 18^th; his funeral was held yesterday and Al Sharpton is now on the scene.



About Corey Jones
Jones was a 31-year-old graduate of of the University of Akron with degrees in business administration and music.

He was reportedly a very talented drummer who played with his band Future Prezidents and played at the Bible Church of God in Boynton Beach, where he attended church and his grandfather, Sylvester Banks Sr., is a bishop. Jones volunteered at My Brothers Keeper, a mentoring organization for black youth.

Jones worked as an inspector and assistant property manager for the Delray Beach Housing Authority, since 2008.

Jones had a concealed carry permit (he had been arrested for carrying without a permit in 2008 and the charges were dropped after he completed a first time offender program -- he had no other police record).

A couple of his family members played for the NFL, including C.J. Jones who is pushing for answers.

[HairOfTheDog]

Corey Jones -- The Fatal Incident
On the night of October 18^th, Corey Jones played a gig in Jupiter, Florida. His car broke down on I-95 on the way home and he called a friend.

The friend went to the scene and couldn't get the car started. So, Corey called the #HELP line for a tow and the friend left. It was just after 3:00 a.m. and Corey was waiting for the tow truck to arrive; he was reportedly still connected to the HELP line when he was shot and the family hopes the call was recorded to help shed light on what went down.

Around 3:15 a.m., Palm Beach Police Officer Nouman Raja,38, pulled up behind Jones' Hyundai. Raja was on duty/stakeout at a nearby hotel in relation to a rash of care thefts. Raja was in plain clothes and an unmarked white van. He says he was investigating what he thought was an abandoned car when he was "suddenly confronted by an armed suspect". No dash cam or body cam. Raja shot Jones three times. At this time, no statements have been released indicating that Jones pointed his gun at the officer or that Jones fired his weapon. Jones' gun, which he'd purchased a few days earlier legally, was reportedly found near his car.

About Officer Raja
Officer Raja had previously worked for Atlantis, Florida police. He had been written up three times, twice for mishandling evidence and once for improper pursuit. He took a $10,000 salary reduction when he transferred to Palm Beach PD in April. He has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the results of the investigation being conducted by the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office. The Sheriff's Office stated that it could take several months for them to complete their investigation.

Sources:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/...story.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ar...45189.html
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/corey-jone...ed-photos/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...hurch.html

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I have been following this one down here since it happened. It sounds like this guy Jones may have gotten out of his car or come from around it with his gun in his hand, the cop saw it freaked and shot him, Bad call from both of them.
Jones had just bought the gun a few days before after he got his CCW. The gun box and receipt were found in the car and the gun somewhere between the car and where Jones died, He had apparently run when the cop drew and fired on him. The cop fired 7 times and hit Jones 3 times. I believe I read Jones never fired at all.
I can kind of see it from Jones side, its dark there (I know the spot) and its in the hood. The van rolled up on him and the guy got out, here is where the mistakes started. Unknown if the COP ID'd himself, unknown where exactly where Jones was: in the car, next to the car, on the other side? According to the cop he was "Confronted" by a guy with a gun. Here is the split second decision....cop draws and fires.

The cop was working burglaries in the area, plain clothes, unmarked vehicle. People are calling for all cops to be wearing body cams, I don't know if that would have been possible in this situation, maybe.

May be a while before we find out much, if anything.
Jones people are calling for "Justice" what they want is revenge.
This was a bad deal, no winners

[HairOfTheDog]

Why do you think the Jones' want revenge instead of answers or justice, Six? I haven't seen anything like that.

They have valid questions about the death of their loved one. They've attended peaceful rallies, and like most people across the country, they're advocating for body cams and dash cams for all cops, which could help provide evidence/answers in cases like this where there are no witnesses.

They seem like a very close and loving family who have suffered a great loss and want to make sure everything possible is done to make sense of it.

What vengeful actions have I missed?

[sally]

What vengeful actions have I missed?

None. Like usual Six is whistling Dixie out of his ass.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Why do you think the Jones' want revenge instead of answers or justice, Six? I haven't seen anything like that.

They have valid questions about the death of their loved one. They've attended peaceful rallies, and like most people across the country, they're advocating for body cams and dash cams for all cops, which could help provide evidence/answers in cases like this where there are no witnesses.

They seem like a very close and loving family who have suffered a great loss and want to make sure everything possible is done to make sense of it.

What vengeful actions have I missed?

In the initial videos they were calling for the cop to be fired, prosecuted etc, same as always. They didn't have any more facts than anyone else. This was back the day it happened. To their credit there has not been a whole big circus around it

[HairOfTheDog]

In the initial videos they were calling for the cop to be fired, prosecuted etc, same as always. They didn't have any more facts than anyone else. This was back the day it happened. To their credit there has not been a whole big circus around it

I didn't see any videos or read any articles quoting the Jones family members saying those things.

I've heard them asking for the truth to come out.

I've heard them say they want justice if Officer Raja did improper things, if he used excessive force -- they want him to be held accountable to the full measure of the law.

I've read that they wonder if Corey and Raja both mistook the other for something they weren't, which some police sources have reported to media as a possibility as well.

I've read that they are asking to find out if/how Raja identified himself as an officer considering he was outwardly just an armed dude in jeans and a cap, in a white van with tinted windows, who pulled up on Corey at 3 in the morning.

I've heard them asking why it took 38 hours for the family to be notified that Corey had been killed by a police officer.

Later, they wanted to know why Corey was shot at 6 times and hit 3 times even though Raja says that he was the one "confronted" by an armed "suspect" (suspected of what?) and forensics have confirmed that Corey never fired his gun and that he tried to run at some point.

One thing the Jones family has said it doesn't want is to have Corey's death turned into a racial issue.

"This is not a black thing," his brother C.J. said. "No disrespect about Black Lives Matter, (but) all lives matter. And my brother had plenty of friends -- white friends, Asian friends, it didn't matter."

Corey's father said in an interview, "I need some answers, I need to know why. Why is my son gone today? Why?" He was crying. I hope Corey Jones Sr. gets the answers he needs. If my child died like that, no matter his age, you bet your ass I'd be pushing to know what happened and why. I would need to know too.

[HairOfTheDog]

CORRECTION:
Officer Raja is a member of the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department.

The shooting of Corey Jones is being independently by the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, along with the State's Attorneys Office and the FBI.

Snip:
In addition to Jones family and civil rights activists, local police union officials have also called on the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department to release more information about the shooting.

“It’s causing reckless inferences about our officer’s conduct,” John Kazanjian, president of the Palm Beach County Police Benevolent Association told the Sun-Sentinel on Tuesday. “Whether it’s good or bad, they need to be more transparent.”

The shooting is being investigated by the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office, which has referred all requests for comment to the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department.

“I understand the public concern with what is going on. We share that,” Chief Stepp said. “The most important thing, I believe, is to get the facts out. That’s what we’re trying to do.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...y-officer/

[HairOfTheDog]

I never care when the thugs kill each other but this shit is heartbreaking. He's just a little kid for christssake. My God.

It's so fucked up. I get the impression police strongly believe it was gang retaliation against the father and that the father knows more than he's saying.



Another little boy, ^ Jeremy Mardis, was shot to death today. He was 6. Police know who killed him.


^ Chris Few is Jeremy's dad. Marshals in Louisiana were attempting to serve him with a warrant and he fled. Jeremy was in the car with his dad. Marshals chased them and Few reportedly reached a dead end.

The story is that he was trying to reverse into marshals so they opened fire. Well, several of the bullets hit the 6-year-old in the head and chest and he died in the car. Police say Jeremy was "caught in the line of fire" when they were shooting into the car. Few was also struck several times and is in serious condition at the hospital.

Police haven't yet revealed what type of warrant the marshals were trying to serve.

RIP Jeremy Mardis.

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/autistic-6-y...port-says/

[Duchess]

The story is that he was trying to reverse into marshals so they opened fire. Well, several of the bullets hit the 6-year-old in the head and chest and he died in the car. Police say Jeremy was "caught in the line of fire" when they were shooting into the car. Few was also struck several times and is in serious condition at the hospital.

Police haven't yet revealed what type of warrant the marshals were trying to serve.

RIP Jeremy Mardis.

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/autistic-6-y...port-says/

I look forward to reading exactly what the warrant was for. What could possibly be worth killing a little kid for?

[Duchess]

I'm trying to find out what the warrant was for and I read the cops are already covering their ass. I'd just like to tell them that when I see someone reversing in my direction, I get out of the fucking way. That's what people with half a grain of common sense do but they couldn't do that, they felt like their lives were threatened so they emptied their guns into the car. Stupid, worthless, cocksuckers.

[Duchess]

*sigh* They all aren't really stupid & worthless but this crap is old and frustrating.

There are too many, much too many, scared cops running around with a gun, badge & authority. They are in the wrong line of work if they find their job so frightening.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Its fucked up that the kid got killed but put that on dad.

[HairOfTheDog]

The story is that he was trying to reverse into marshals so they opened fire. Well, several of the bullets hit the 6-year-old in the head and chest and he died in the car. Police say Jeremy was "caught in the line of fire" when they were shooting into the car. Few was also struck several times and is in serious condition at the hospital.

Police haven't yet revealed what type of warrant the marshals were trying to serve.

I look forward to reading exactly what the warrant was for. What could possibly be worth killing a little kid for?

I checked for an update this morning; no more details released yet.

The Louisiana State Police are headed to Marksville to investigate, upon request of the Marksville Police. The incident actually went down Tuesday night, not yesterday as I initially posted. The State Police still haven't interviewed the marshals, according to their reports.

Of course the father should not have fled. We all know that. People sometimes do stupid irresponsible shit and flee police; that doesn't mean they deserve to be killed or their children deserve to be killed.

It's odd to me that the coroner is the one making statements to the media. He says that Jeremy most likely got riddled with bullets in the passenger seat when marshals were firing at his dad through the driver's side window. He says that the boy had multiple gunshot wounds to his head and torso (not his chest, as was originally reported).

The coroner has seen the bullet wounds; he knows they weren't fired from behind. So, the marshals were on the side of the vehicle when Few was attempting to reverse? Or, were there marshals behind him and beside him? No reports that there was an "exchange of gunfire", so it's unlikely the coroner recovered any bullets that weren't police-issued.

I'm waiting for more facts and really hope the whole truth is told, no matter what it reveals.

Police knew exactly who Chris Few was and had his vehicle information as well. I sure hope an unarmed man and his 6-year-old son weren't pursued and shot multiple times over what started as an attempt to serve a warrant for a misdemeanor violation or non-violent crime. It won't make it any less sad that Jeremy is dead if the marshals had reason to believe that Few was a threat to public safety when they went to serve the warrant, but it might make it a little more comprehensible.

[Maggot]

Hopefully people stop running so they won't get shot.

[HairOfTheDog]

Vehicle pursuits way more often than not represent a bigger threat to police and public safety than the suspect being pursued. A hundred or more cops, hundreds of non-violent suspects, and thousands of innocent bystanders are injured and killed in police pursuits every year.

The DOJ and FBI recommends that police departments train their officers to weigh the risks before engaging in a vehicle chase and avoid them where possible; by all accounts, the vast majority of those being pursued are not violent criminals. The DOJ recommends against shooting into moving vehicles as well.

I am interested in learning the nature of the warrant against dad and whether or not the Marksville, Lousianna police department has implemented training and policies in regards to vehicle pursuits and shootings.

Sources:
https://leb.fbi.gov/2010/march/evidence-...erspective
https://leb.fbi.gov/2002-pdfs/leb-july-2002
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitiza...5NCJRS.pdf
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/.../30187827/

[F.U.]

A hundred or more cops, hundreds of non-violent suspects, and thousands of innocent bystanders are injured and killed in police pursuits every years.

They should put up signs and make a law that makes it illegal to run from the cops. That would stop all these senseless deaths.
that was a joke for those that don't recognize it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I recognize the joke, F.U.

I've recognized it the dozens and dozens of times you and Gunnar have posted it in different threads with slight variations.

It's equally knee-slapping and poignant every time one of you posts it again, especially when it's followed by a HAHAHA or .

Don't quit your day jobs, knuckleheads.

[F.U.]

Actually it would work about as well as the gun free zone signs do, so it is kinda funny.