Iran deal, good deal, or bad deal?

[Maggot]

"sigh" there are reports on that website with 2017 and later non-conforming Iranian non compliance with the JCPOA agreement. But you still are not thrilled by the Israeli revelations. I can only think that you looked at the 2009 article. That's OK only the facts that are spoon fed to you are acceptable. It's expected. Thank the Republicans that it isn't a treaty.

[Donovan]

You know who, out of all the countries currently wielding nuclear weapons, not only has far more missiles than every other country except one, but is also the only country to have detonated such weapons against a civilian populace? Go ahead. Guess. I will give you a hint: it's the same country whose empire building invasive tactics gave rise to ISIS. And the Taliban. And the Khmer Rouge. And the Nicaraguan death squads....

[Maggot]

Canada?

[HairOfTheDog]

"sigh" there are reports on that website with 2017 and later non-conforming Iranian non compliance with the JCPOA agreement. But you still are not thrilled by the Israeli revelations. I can only think that you looked at the 2009 article. That's OK only the facts that are spoon fed to you are acceptable. It's expected. Thank the Republicans that it isn't a treaty.

You've lost it Mags. For real. You've been sighing and tripping over your own feet in this thread all day.

I clicked your link and read it. It supports what Duchess and I told you this morning. If there's some ACTUAL evidence that you think supports your belief that all the inspectors are either liars or in the dark, all you have to do is tell us about it or provide a direct link and I'll consider it. It's lame and ineffective for you to attempt to burn anyone for reading exactly what you post and link to.

Bottom line: nothing you've written or linked thus far supports your belief/claim that what Netanyahu presented yesterday proves that Iran is not in compliance with the terms of the nuclear agreement. It's delusional to keep insisting that it does.

Even Netanyahu himself didn't make the specific claim that Iran is not complying. It's too easy to refute that claim. He just suggested it in order to hook the extremely gullible and peddle his agenda.

[HairOfTheDog]

Instead, Netanyahu said that since there's proof that Iran lied in the past, Iran can't be trusted to abide by the terms of the current deal. Well, I got news for you and him...........by that logic, no country would ever support or enter into agreements with the U.S., Israel, or most any other country.

Now, if you're excited about Israeli intelligence reportedly gathering a trove of Iranian documents that provide additional details about what's been generally known and acknowledged for years......that's actually rational on your part. Maybe such details will be useful for future planning? We'll see.

One last thing Mags........since you're contending that there's no sense in negotiating with countries which have lied about their arsenals and whose citizens say they wish death to Americans..............you obviously consider Trump foolish for working towards a nuclear deal with North Korea, right?

[Maggot]

Dated 2017 you will more than likely ignore this and say if it's not from CNN it's not true .I was beginning to think you were more intellectually curious towards the Iranian deal but am beginning to think you have just gone along with the gang that believes what they are told. No matter what happens with Iran we will have no say in it. I believe they are untrustworthy and are still working on a nuclear bomb. If you feel confident that what they say is true and what they present to the inspection committee then that's fine. I'm not buying it and that's that. You can belittle all you want, I say you are wrong.
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From the website:
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) needs to be implemented more effectively and its nuclear conditions strengthened and better verified. A critical part of that effort is to determine the type and extent of Iranian non-compliance with provisions in the JCPOA and associated United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolution 2231.

The deal’s implementation under the Obama administration was too permissive and tolerant of Iran’s violations of the deal, its exploitation of loopholes, and its avoidance of critical verification requirements. The result was that Iran was able to push the envelope of allowed behavior in directions harmful to U.S. national security. Too often, the Obama administration made concessions, tolerated cheating, or avoided strengthening steps out of a misplaced fear that Iran would walk away from the deal or that somehow President Rouhani’s presidency needed protecting. This led to absurd situations where U.S. officials badgered European JCPOA country officials to support initiatives clearly favoring Iran that were contrary to their own views and interests. One must ask based on the JCPOA’s implementation so far, why have the deal in the first place if verification steps or strengthening measures have been avoided for fear of the JCPOA failing?

Until today, the Trump administration has continued to implement the deal. I hope that policy continues. However, that does not mean that the Trump administration should continue the Obama administration’s overly permissive way of implementing the deal and its avoidance of dealing with the JCPOA’s shortcomings. I certainly expect the Trump administration to chart a new path forward that better protects U.S. interests and national and Middle East regional security.

There is an urgency to focus on fixing deficiencies in the Iran deal. At its core, the Iran deal is a bet that by the time the nuclear limitations end, Iran, the region, or both will have changed so much that Iran will no longer seek nuclear weapons. But despite immense sanctions relief, Iran has been increasing its conventional military power and efforts at establishing regional hegemony, including interfering in the affairs of and threatening its neighbors. The bet does not appear to be winnable under the current circumstances, and Iran’s current trajectory is a threat to the United States and its allies in the region.

Those who argued that a key benefit of the nuclear deal would be a moderation of Iran’s behavior in the region have been sadly disappointed. Armed with substantial funds and a growing economy, Iran is challenging the United States in the region and appears as committed to maintaining the capability to pursue a nuclear weapons path as before, just a longer path.

[HairOfTheDog]

Maggot, your "you won't read it", "you're not intellectually curious", "you REALLY think what I Maggot say you think" is contradicted by evident history. It's silly shit.

But, back to the topic at hand. What you just posted is an opinion. I agree with some of it. I've read a lot of similar opinions over the last 5 or so years, some more favorable and some less favorable.

I've never heard anyone claim that the Iran Nuclear deal was perfect, including those directly involved in its negotiation nor its strongest supporters. 'Deals' or 'negotiations' between adversaries are never perfect, by definition. There's give and take and nobody gets everything they want.

The author states that it 'appears Iran is committed to maintaining the capability to pursue a nuclear weapons path as before, just a longer path.' Well, making the path substantially longer was a major goal of the deal, so that's a win. It beats the hell out of war, as far as I'm concerned.

And, if Iran violates the terms, the deal is invalidated. Right now, by all accounts, Iran is in compliance. Bibi can't claim for the sixth time in 20 years that Iran is 6 months from nuclear capability. He doesn't have to worry that Iran is going to nuke Israel while he sleeps. And, he has less opportunity to try again to compel the U.S. to take military action against Iran. Those are all good outcomes, in my opinion.

[HairOfTheDog]

When some of the provisions of the current deal expire in 7 years, a new deal can be negotiated IF Iran prioritizes economic recovery and growth higher than it prioritizes acquiring nuclear weapons. A strict compliance verification process would obviously be a requirement of any potential future deal too.

The U.S. pushing to change the terms of the current contract/agreement mid-stream when all parties are in compliance does not reflect well on our credibility and integrity, in my opinion. However, if all the parties who signed on the dotted line agree to U.S.-mandated revisions, that's fine. If they instead expect us to keep our original commitment, that's understandable and it's their right.

Anyway, if Trump welches on the current agreement, Iran may stay in it with China, Russia, Germany, France and the U.K. The compliance verification would continue and I think China and Russia would assume an even bigger role in Iran's economic recovery. New sanctions from the U.S. would hurt Iran's economic growth, no doubt. But, they'd still be better off than they were 3 years ago, I imagine.

And, regardless as to whether Trump stays in the agreement or welches....... the U.S. will continue its strong alliance with Israel and handing Israel $4 billion a year in defense aid.

[Duchess]

It's being reported that aides to trump hired an Israeli private intelligence agency to orchestrate a “dirty ops” campaign against key individuals from the Obama administration who helped negotiate the Iran nuclear deal.

People in the trump camp contacted private investigators in May last year to get dirt on Ben Rhodes, who had been one of Obama’s top national security advisers, and Colin Kahl, deputy assistant to President Obama. Holy cow. Don't I dare be surprised!

[Maggot]

It wont be very hard to find any of that out.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's being reported that aides to trump hired an Israeli private intelligence agency to orchestrate a “dirty ops” campaign against key individuals from the Obama administration who helped negotiate the Iran nuclear deal.

People in the trump camp contacted private investigators in May last year to get dirt on Ben Rhodes, who had been one of Obama’s top national security advisers, and Colin Kahl, deputy assistant to President Obama. Holy cow. Don't I dare be surprised!

I saw that story: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018...clear-deal

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it's true.

It's easy to imagine Trump and Netanyahu conspiring to drum up crap they could use to justify welching on an official agreement made during the Obama administration -- by any means possible, regardless of negative impacts to their allies and everybody else.

[HairOfTheDog]

In 2016, in one incredible run-on sentence, Trump made a speech which demonstrated his deep understanding and reasons for wanting to scrap the Iran Nuclear deal.



^ That's not a joke. It's the word-for-word transcript of Trump's July 19, 2016 speech at Sun City’s Magnolia Hall in South Carolina.

[Duchess]

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it's true.

If this story is true, and there is no reason to believe it isn't, trump and his administration were willing to contract a foreign intelligence service in order to undermine United States policy. He's the fucking president of the United States, does anyone really believe he wouldn't be willing to work with a foreign government in order to undermine his opponent as a candidate? Man.

[HairOfTheDog]

If this story is true, and there is no reason to believe it isn't, trump and his administration were willing to contract a foreign intelligence service in order to undermine United States policy. He's the fucking president of the United States, does anyone really believe he wouldn't be willing to work with a foreign government in order to undermine his opponent as a candidate? Man.

The story has legs alright. It's now being picked up by major U.S. media outlets.

Israeli private spy company Black Cube was hired days after Trump visited Netanyahu in May of last year, when Trump publicly proclaimed that Iran would never have nuclear weapons.

The mission of the op was to dig up dirt on Obama officials who'd worked on the Iran Nuclear deal.

The targets were Ben Rhodes and Colin Kahl, who'd been the subject of bogus right-wing conspiracy theories.

A female Black Cube operative contacted Rhodes' and Kahl's wives -- she knew all about the them and posed as someone who wanted to donate money to causes they support using an alias and a fake Linked-In profile.

After the operative kept pushing the wives to meet with certain individuals, they both knew something was off. Black Cube walked away empty handed.

Black Cube used the same strategy it had used to try to dig up dirt on Harvey Weinstein's victims in attempt to discredit and silence them.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk...-officials
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/m...ce-warning

[HairOfTheDog]

^ Such dirty bullshit.

And, yet, Trump is going after John Kerry for meeting with some of his foreign relations colleagues and members of Congress recently as an expert on details of the Iran Nuclear Deal.

Trump said Kerry's "shadow diplomacy could be illegal!" and then made fun of Kerry for falling off his bike during a race when he was 73. More tired school yard bullying tactics.

The only remotely possible charge against Kerry would be a violation of the antiquated Logan Act. Trump would be foolish to chase that dog; it would bite him in the ass (considering his team's known violations of that same Act, which is never prosecuted).

Anyway.......tomorrow is Trump's big reveal. He will be announcing his decision on whether the U.S. will stay in the deal or pull out. He's such a showman, it's not completely unimaginable to me that he'll hedge or throw out all kinds of "what ifs" to keep the ratings up and the audience guessing.

However, by all accounts from those who've tried to convince him the agreement is in the U.S.'s and the world's best interests and not to pull out just because it was a deal made during Obama's administration (and because Netanyahu is pushing for it)............Trump is planning on pulling out.

[BigMark]

He's a real bonafide douche and a puppet master extraordinaire.

[Duchess]

^ Such dirty bullshit.

And, yet, Trump is going after John Kerry for meeting with some of his foreign relations colleagues and members of Congress recently as an expert on details of the Iran Nuclear Deal.

Trump said Kerry's "shadow diplomacy could be illegal!" and then made fun of Kerry for falling off his bike during a race when he was 73. More tired school yard bullying tactics.

The only remotely possible charge against Kerry would be a violation of the antiquated Logan Act. Trump would be foolish to chase that dog; it would bite him in the ass (considering his team's known violations of that same Act, which is never prosecuted).

Anyway.......tomorrow is Trump's big reveal. He will be announcing his decision on whether the U.S. will stay in the deal or pull out. He's such a showman, it's not completely unimaginable to me that he'll hedge or throw out all kinds of "what ifs" to keep the ratings up and the audience guessing.

However, by all accounts from those who've tried to convince him the agreement is in the U.S.'s and the world's best interests and not to pull out just because it was a deal made during Obama's administration (and because Netanyahu is pushing for it)............Trump is planning on pulling out.

It won't be long until the United States has zero standing in the world thanks to that buffoon. Who would trust any agreement from this administration. He's so dumb, dumbdumbdumb, he can't be trusted, if he's talking, he's lying. I'm pretty sure he's laughed about among world leaders, how can they not.

[Duchess]

Israeli private spy company Black Cube was hired days after Trump visited Netanyahu in May of last year, when Trump publicly proclaimed that Iran would never have nuclear weapons.

As I'm reading this morning I see that Black Cube has three versions of this in as many days. They've gone from denial, to semi-denial to "we did it as part of a corporate dispute". Congress needs to get over their fear of tweets, put on their big boy pants and investigate this. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening, they are afraid and there isn't a single backbone among them. It's sickening.

[Duchess]

Is there a plan to contain the nuclear threat when trump pulls out today?

[Midwest Spy]

Is there a plan to contain the nuclear threat when trump pulls out today?

The Israeli Defense Force