RIGHT TO DIE

[Duchess]

Ya think?

Don't you use that tone with me, young man.

[HairOfTheDog]

This OP/ED letter from a California resident, Steve Lopez, is featured in yesterday's LA Times. I think it's well worth reading the full piece, for those interested in this topic, whether you're firmly in favor/against End of Life Options or undecided. I'm just posting a snip here.



Dear Governor Brown,

Three years ago, my father died in a fairly typical manner. His heart and his body had given out, he could barely move, he couldn't feed himself and he was in diapers.

He was in a bit of pain, but the physical suffering was nothing compared to the emotional and psychological side of things. His life was gone and there was no joy in a day. He had no privacy and he hated having to be cared for as he lay in bed helplessly, a witness to his own lingering death, which finally arrived as a friend might, delivering the gift of mercy.

I know that our democracy is based on a separation of church and state, and that leaders such as you try not to let the tenets of their faith assert undue influence on secular decisions. I know too, however, that our values are usually set early and that religious beliefs are often core to who we are.

I know, governor, that you got a little farther than I did in the Catholic Church. You were a seminarian and I topped out at altar boy. I don't know if you still identify as a Catholic, but to me, any religion is about a search for meaning and we all know you're a thoughtful — even spiritual — man who reflects, quotes Scripture and works from a set of basic moral principles.

Doctors can unplug ventilators and they can answer a patient's wish to be taken off dialysis. They can recognize that modern medicine has advanced to the point where people can be kept alive almost indefinitely, but all of us must ask whether, in some cases, we are extending life or prolonging death.

"As a Christian I believe God is love," the Rev. Ignacio Castuera once told me. "...And the God of love would not want any of God's creatures to suffer undignified situations, especially at the end of life."

It's true, as well, that we need to be mindful of the potentially dangerous intersection of end-of-life options and cost-cutting by health insurance companies that have a financial disincentive in costly end-of-life procedures going on for long. But I believe the legislation before you offers safeguards against abuses.

Full piece: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/...olumn.html

[aussiefriend]

Rational human beings who are very sick deserve that luxury.

ah yes, but I have come across people this year (not patients) who seem to be very rational but should in fact, be locked up!

I think it should be based on physiology, level of pain and prognosis.

[HairOfTheDog]

Sign the fuckin' bill.

Governor Jerry Brown signed the fuckin' bill today.



Caught between conflicting moral arguments, Gov. Jerry Brown, a former Jesuit seminary student, on Monday signed a measure allowing physicians to prescribe lethal doses of drugs to terminally ill patients who want to hasten their deaths.

Approving the bill, whose opponents included the Catholic Church, appeared to be a gut-wrenching decision for the 77-year-old governor.

“In the end, I was left to reflect on what I would want in the face of my own death,” Brown added. “I do not know what I would do if I were dying in prolonged and excruciating pain. I am certain, however, that it would be a comfort to be able to consider the options afforded by this bill. And I wouldn’t deny that right to others."

California becomes the fifth state to allow so-called assisted suicide, following Oregon, Washington, Montana and Vermont.

Full story: http://www.latimes.com/local/political/l...story.html

[Duchess]

Governor Jerry Brown signed the fuckin' bill today.

Wonderful to read!

[Maggot]

[username]

I see this as a good thing and the governor is right; it should be an option for those based on their prognosis and suffering.

Some people are worried about insurance ramifications but I heard that over 100 people have taken that option in Oregon and I haven't heard about people being forced to do so against their will.

It really already exists to a degree. We were all told (my dad included) that when he was "done" the hospice nurse would give him a dose of morphine that he basically wouldn't recover from. When that time came, he could no longer speak but when the nurse asked him if he wanted the morphine, he gave a thumbs up, never regained consciousness and died within a day and a half. Without gasping, struggling or anything else that indicated he was suffering at the end.

Good job, Jerry.

[HairOfTheDog]

The morphine didn't kill your dad though. The morphine knocked him out and took him out of pain when he was at the very end of life. That's not medically-assisted suicide.

For physician-assisted suicide in states that allow it, high doses of Pentobarbital are preferred and cost under $400. Unfortunately, since European manufacturers have stopped selling it in the U.S. because it's used to carry out the death penalty, it's sometimes hard to get and Seconal is instead used (at $2,000 a pop).

I don't know what drugs California physicians will be using when the law goes into effect here.

[Maggot]

They could just show a picture of Nancy Pelosi naked drinking from a water bubbler.

[HairOfTheDog]

They could just show a picture of Nancy Pelosi naked drinking from a water bubbler.

That could probably work for a lot of terminally ill conservatives.

However, if MS was on death's door and someone showed him such a picture...



...he might well spring back to life.

[Midwest Spy]

Hello Nancy!

[username]

The morphine didn't kill your dad though. The morphine knocked him out and took him out of pain when he was at the very end of life. That's not medically-assisted suicide.

I don't think that's accurate. You think the nurse was precognizant and it's just coincidental that he didn't regain consciousness and died within a day and a half? I agree that morphine given in an appropriate dose solely to alleviate pain will not typically hasten death. However...

There is no evidence that opioids such as morphine hasten the dying process when a person receives the right dose to control the symptoms he or she is experiencing.

Notice the "right dose". Suppose the dose is significantly higher than what is needed to ease pain...

There’s a difference between natural dying and dying from too much morphine. When someone has received too much morphine, he or she usually can’t be woken up. The person’s breathing becomes very slow and regular. Sometimes only one or two breaths are taken in a minute. The person also appears calm and comfortable.

Check, check, check. That was my dad after he was administered morphine.

If there are concerns about increased rate and work of breathing, gasping for air, and that the person is distressed, we know that morphine is not a factor in the dying process. Instead, this suggests an ongoing need for giving the person additional regular doses of morphine to relieve distress.

As I said in my earlier post, my dad didn't experience any distress, gasping or anything else to indicate he hadn't received a significant amount of morphine. His breathing was shallow/erratic but as stated above, he appeared calm and comfortable.

Link 1:

http://www.virtualhospice.ca/en_US/Main+...oner_.aspx

Giving overly high dosages of morphine to a COPD patient, or a patient with another terminal illness, is a form of euthanasia. By being alert, discussing your concerns with the physician and hospice staff and acting promptly to prevent overly high dosages of morphine from being administered, you can save your loved one from an untimely death. Removing your loved one from a setting that is bent on euthanizing your loved one may be the only way to save them from being medical killed.

There are many nurses and physicians who would never even think of doing such a thing, but unfortunately, there are many who would. Surveys and research into the attitudes and practices of physicians and nurses reveals that a significant percentage of nurses and physicians believe that euthanasia is acceptable.

Link 2:

http://www.hospicepatients.org/no-prn-mo...-copd.html

In my dad's case, he may have hung on another few days or perhaps slightly longer but he left comfortably so I have no hard feelings for the nurse that was working with him.

[sally]

I believe that ^^^. And I have absolutely no problem with it when the doctor says there is nothing left we can do and the patient just wants to go comfortably. That wasn't my mom's case though. The doctor recommended she have a PET scan to see if the cancer spread and than make a decision if she wants to continue chemo or not and they dosed her up on the day the scan was scheduled and she never regained consciousness again.

[HairOfTheDog]

You might be right user. I wasn't there and wasn't trying to be argumentative. I'm sorry you lost your dad, but glad the end was peaceful.

Morphine acceleration at the very last stages of life is different from medically-assisted suicide, was my point. With medically-assisted suicide, drugs designed to cause the body to shut down and kill the person are prescribed.

If it was the morphine that actually caused your dad's death, the hospice workers sure took a huge risk in killing him and admitting it to the family in advance. The hospice company could lose its license immediately and the workers could be charged with murder.

Anyway, putting someone out of pain with a large dose of morphine when they're mentally ready and physically shutting down might hasten the death, I can see that. The morphine dosage is supposed to coincide with the level of pain by medical standards. With a very large dosage, the person is out of pain, but isn't really aware or struggling instinctively to hang on anymore; more like sleeping. I know what you mean.

[username]

I believe that ^^^. And I have absolutely no problem with it when the doctor says there is nothing left we can do and the patient just wants to go comfortably. That wasn't my mom's case though. The doctor recommended she have a PET scan to see if the cancer spread and than make a decision if she wants to continue chemo or not and they dosed her up on the day the scan was scheduled and she never regained consciousness again.

Yeah, your case was entirely different and I would be furious if I were in your shoes.