TERRORIST ATTACKS: PARIS, MALI, AND MORE

[Maggot]

They have shot a towel head with a bag of explosives. The poor lost soul is dead.

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't said anything about supporting torture and killing family members.

My main point is: this is a war against the West.

An actual war.

It may not be fought on battlefields or with missiles, but it IS us against them.

No matter how we arrived at this point, we as a society have to realize that.

Coddling and empathizing won't do us any good.

If they had the means, they'd destroy all of us in a heartbeat. That's their mindset.

Time to buckle up.

I agree that it would be foolish to minimize the threat that terror groups pose across the globe, especially when the guys at the top are bringing in a ton of money.

There are several such Islamic terror groups making life hell for everyone who doesn't join their ranks in the Middle East, in Africa, etc.. And, yes, fundamentalist Islamic religious beliefs and manipulations play a large role.

But, it's not only a war against the West - it's not even primarily a war against the West at this point. Western targets and hits are more of a bonus and an attention-grabbing recruitment tool than anything else presently, in my opinion, though "the West" may be the ultimate future target.

Look at it objectively, MS. Al-Assad, the Syrian people, and the Syrian army are not "the West". The Iraqi and Syrian Kurds are not "the West". The Iraqi, Turkish, and Egyptian governments, armies and peoples are not "the West". The Israeli soldiers guarding the Syrian border are not "the West". The Jordanian air force is not "the West". The Russian soldiers (who not only battled with ISIS, but also hit US-backed rebels and civilians to help bolster Assad) are not "the West". All are declared enemies and equally 'infidel' as "the West" in the mantra of ISIS.

The reality is that Shiite (and to a lesser extent, Sunni) Muslims who have been killed or forced to flee their homes by ISIS outnumber western targets and Christian victims by the hundreds of thousands. By far, Middle Easterners and North Africans (mostly Muslims) have been the hardest hit targets of Islamic terrorists.

The reality is also that ISIS-inspired or ISIS-backed attacks on Western soil have been carried out almost exclusively by Westerners who sought to join ISIS.

None of that reality means that ISIS isn't a danger to the U.S. or the West as a whole. Islamic terrorism is infiltrating Western populations primarily by attracting Westerners to their cause; often by reminding malleable Westerners of how the West killed hundreds of thousands Muslims under false pretenses. That happened MS; it's a fact -- not fiction or opinion.

I feel like you sometimes deny facts and truths that you find distasteful and attempt to paint people who look at things more objectively and less emotionally than you as 'apologists' or 'PC' or other en vogue labels that often don't fit and minimize the seriousness of the matter.

Anyway, of course we should vigilantly work to deter attacks at home by domestic ISIS-devoted lone wolves and cells. Of course we should vigilantly screen refugees, immigrants, and citizens returning from terrorist hotbeds. Nobody here has said otherwise, not that I recall. It's debatable, but I also support the West continuing to work with the multi-national coalition to quash the ISIS leadership/headquarters and military bases. And, I would like to see a much harder push on Middle Eastern countries to take in the displaced refugees rather than "the West" continuing to absorb so many of them.

[Maggot]

The culture in the middle east is such that they will move to the easiest place and habitat. With the advent of modern transportation it becomes easier and the better way out of a bad situation. They are tribal and could care less for a true form of government. To become "western" they would have to assimilate into the society they migrate towards. There they could care less for government again and reform into tribal society. Westernization is a way to change the cycle but its not easy so again the easy path is taken. Until they solve their own problems and take back their own communities they will never stay still long enough to form a coherent and peaceful society. They have been fighting for centuries and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

[sally]

The culture in the middle east is such that they will move to the easiest place and habitat. With the advent of modern transportation it becomes easier and the better way out of a bad situation. They are tribal and could care less for a true form of government. To become "western" they would have to assimilate into the society they migrate towards. There they could care less for government again and reform into tribal society. Westernization is a way to change the cycle but its not easy so again the easy path is taken. Until they solve their own problems and take back their own communities they will never stay still long enough to form a coherent and peaceful society. They have been fighting for centuries and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

I agree with you 100%. Which isn't often.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, Belgian LE is raiding neighborhoods in Molenbeek and Schaerbeek and finally finding and arresting ISIS-pledged terrorists they knew about even before the Paris attacks.

As more of the killers in the Brussels' attacks this week are identified, it's confirmed that there are many ties to last year's Paris attacks, the terrorists were on watchlists in various countries, and terrorists (with previous criminal records) were not difficult to locate in their own neighborhoods.

So, why weren't they pursued? It appears that political conflicts between district, state, and national agencies and politicians within Belgium resulted in nobody taking responsibility for anti-terror policing and funding, like they were busier fighting against each other than fighting against terrorism and fighting for public safety.

Now, the world knows about how the 'most wanted terrorist' in the world hung out in his own Brussels hood for months after helping to kill hundreds of people in Paris. And, about how the Paris bomb-maker's DNA was on the bombs, but he was not pursued and apprehended in his Brussels' hood before he built the suicide bombs used in the murders at the Brussels' airport.

It's not always easy to hunt down and capture suspected terrorists, especially in remote terrains. They can hide and be protected deep under the radar. I get that. That's not what happened here. These guys simply weren't pursued with any vigor. I really hope the EU comes down hard on Belgium and forces an anti-terror policy, and that the Belgian officials willingly do what it takes to get their shit together quickly.

Meanwhile............U.S. forces killed the Finance Minister and second in command in the ISIS leadership yesterday, and key Iraqi and Syrian cities were taken back last week after joint campaigns by Russian, U.S. and coalition forces.

Refs:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/politics/i...-believes/
http://triblive.com/usworld/world/102036...ive-syrian
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...urope.html

[blueberryhill]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.
[/quote]

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...

[sally]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...
[/quote]

That's just the truth, it has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. Their culture and way of life is primitive and going over there and trying to change it didn't work out too well, did it?

[blueberryhill]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...

That's just the truth, it has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. Their culture and way of life is primitive and going over there and trying to change it didn't work out too well, did it?
[/quot Maggs was describing the tribes in the mid east, but it also describes a Trump supporter in my opinion......it was a play on words, FFS.....You don't recognize a smart ass, wow, is all I have to say.......Geez......let me try to explain this......read the words "do better under tyrannical oppression....especially the un-educated."..........................I meant that describes a person who would also support Donald Trump. I thought this was Mock, but I am beginning to rethink that term.

[blueberryhill]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...

That's just the truth, it has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. Their culture and way of life is primitive and going over there and trying to change it didn't work out too well, did it?
[/quote]

What a dummy you are of all people! He was describing the tribes in the mid east, but it also describes a Trump supporter in my opinion......it was a play on words, FFS.....You don't recognize a smart ass, wow, is all I have to say.......Geez......

[blueberryhill]

I tried to explain my statement, but let me try again, Sally....

Read the words Maggs wrote above:

"and do best under a tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated..............."

Those words could also be used to describe a person who might vote for Donald Trump IMO. I thought this site was called MOCK, but I am feeling that this term doesn't apply so much any more......

sorry about double, triple, post.....I am having bad year........

[Duchess]

sorry about double, triple, post.....I am having bad year........

It's fine, BH, don't worry about the posts and don't mind Sally. She's pissy because I put raisins & slivers of carrot in my hoity toity carrot cake and it reminds her of Ramsey.

[HairOfTheDog]

That's just the truth, it has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. Their culture and way of life is primitive and going over there and trying to change it didn't work out too well, did it?

Of course it didn't work out well that we invaded another country (one where politics happens to be religion-based) on the false premise that they conspired to kill 3,000 of our citizens, then killed hundreds of thousands of their citizens, executed their leader and imprisoned his supporters, and backed a new leader who was more beholden to Iran than to the people of Iraq.

Just imagine if a Muslim country (or any country) invaded the U.S. like that. We're not tribal or primitive, and we're secular in government, and it sure as hell wouldn't work out here either.

Unwarranted invasion and regime change don't work anywhere, period. That's one reason it's so hard for me to get behind Hillary Clinton; she still beats that defective regime change foreign policy drum.

Anyway, what you and Maggot contend doesn't hold up in full. Maggot's claim is that Muslims are lazy and go wherever it's easiest for them, and then they can't assimilate in the new environment nor respect the government of their host country because they're too tribal or uneducated. In Europe, outside of Portugal, Muslims have not assimilated well overall, that's true. They're in large part segregated in communities with high unemployment and high crime.

But, when you look at the millions of Muslims who've come to the United States and Canada, it's a very different picture. Those Muslims have assimilated quite well overall, most of them work hard and get good educations, and many serve in our military. That's not true of all Muslim immigrants in every U.S. and Canadian city of course, but it's predominantly the case nationally in both countries. That's no less a fact because there are Islamic terrorists wreaking havoc in their homelands and some dipshit western citizens are converting and looking to join them. ( Here's some comparative assimilation data, if you're interested: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html...-5846.html )

I do worry about taking in tens of thousands of refugees who come out of desperation and displacement, rather than out of a desire to be here though. It's not that I don't feel compassion for them. But, I think stable neighboring countries are more logical destinations and better fits for what will hopefully be temporary shelter and some of the Middle Eastern countries need to step up and do their part in a humanitarian crisis rather than standing back and expecting western countries to do what they won't.

[Maggot]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...
[/quote]

BH you can put a label on things if it makes you feel better and I really don't mind, the truth is sometimes ugly and human nature does not change, so some things are what they are and you just cannot put a teddy bear on it or flowers and have prayer vigils to pledge support. Sometimes that is not what's needed, although it sounds warm and fuzzy it does no good whatsoever except for the people doing it.

[blueberryhill]

[quote='Maggot' pid='425584' dateline='1458..................................... and do best under tyrannical oppression. Especially the un-educated in which there are many.

In my humble opinion, the above sentences perfectly describe a Trump supporter......of course, with some special exceptions...

BH you can put a label on things if it makes you feel better and I really don't mind, the truth is sometimes ugly and human nature does not change, so some things are what they are and you just cannot put a teddy bear on it or flowers and have prayer vigils to pledge support. Sometimes that is not what's needed, although it sounds warm and fuzzy it does no good whatsoever except for the people doing it.
[/quote]

Well, then don't vote for Trump FFS!

[Maggot]

You are possessed!

[blueberryhill]

You are possessed!

Well, they say it takes one to know one! I might put a spell on you and that wouldn't be a good thing....trust me.

[Maggot]

I think I just felt a tingle.

[sally]

That's just the truth, it has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. Their culture and way of life is primitive and going over there and trying to change it didn't work out too well, did it?

Of course it didn't work out well that we invaded another country (one where politics happens to be religion-based) on the false premise that they conspired to kill 3,000 of our citizens, then killed hundreds of thousands of their citizens, executed their leader and imprisoned his supporters, and backed a new leader who was more beholden to Iran than to the people of Iraq.

Just imagine if a Muslim country (or any country) invaded the U.S. like that. We're not tribal or primitive, and we're secular in government, and it sure as hell wouldn't work out here either.

Unwarranted invasion and regime change don't work anywhere, period. That's one reason it's so hard for me to get behind Hillary Clinton; she still beats that defective regime change foreign policy drum.

Anyway, what you and Maggot contend doesn't hold up in full. Maggot's claim is that Muslims are lazy and go wherever it's easiest for them, and then they can't assimilate in the new environment nor respect the government of their host country because they're too tribal or uneducated. In Europe, outside of Portugal, Muslims have not assimilated well overall, that's true. They're in large part segregated in communities with high unemployment and high crime.

But, when you look at the millions of Muslims who've come to the United States and Canada, it's a very different picture. Those Muslims have assimilated quite well overall, most of them work hard and get good educations, and many serve in our military. That's not true of all Muslim immigrants in every U.S. and Canadian city of course, but it's predominantly the case nationally in both countries. That's no less a fact because there are Islamic terrorists wreaking havoc in their homelands and some dipshit western citizens are converting and looking to join them. ( Here's some comparative assimilation data, if you're interested: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html...-5846.html )

I do worry about taking in tens of thousands of refugees who come out of desperation and displacement, rather than out of a desire to be here though. It's not that I don't feel compassion for them. But, I think stable neighboring countries are more logical destinations and better fits for what will hopefully be temporary shelter and some of the Middle Eastern countries need to step up and do their part in a humanitarian crisis rather than standing back and expecting western countries to do what they won't.

They are not assimilating well in Europe at all, they just blew up some more kids. Citizens can't even walk down certain streets over there without being robbed and beaten because they've formed their own territories. That's what Maggot was talking about and we can't let that happen here, and in some places it's already happening.

Those dumbass westerners that want to join Islamic terrorists also include muslims that are already here and are even more vulnerable. I'm not worried about the old man that came here to make a better life, I'm worried about his son or grandson.

So as you said, taking in thousands of refugees is worrisome and the last I heard that was Trump's feeling also. He suggested a temporary ban until we can get a hold on it and weed them out. I thought that was reasonable. However, I admit to not following everything these assholes say so it's possible Trump took that back and said some stupid shit like the only good muslim is a dead muslim.

[Maggot]

I see what's happening in Europe and think fuck-em there's an ocean to protect us. Until I heard American planes were going to fly them in. Now that's a bit nuts I don't care what side of the political spectrum you get your light from. Really? Fly them in?

[HairOfTheDog]

Refugees from Syria and Iraq will be held for 2+ years in a Turkish or Jordanian refugee camp before being transported to the U.S. for resettlement. They will undergo several background and intelligence checks before being cleared. Here's the process:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0

It's not like Europe where refugees can take public transportation into a country in droves, with nowhere to go but back to the war zone. That's a tragic mess and I agree that there's risk of terrorists or violent assholes getting into Eurpean countries that way and it's a very real security concern.

But, back to the U.S. -- for those refugees who are fully screened/vetted for U.S. resettlement, I think they're gonna have to be flown in Maggot. It's not reasonable to expect them to skip, walk, drive/ride, roller skate, uber, bicycle, swim, or hitch-hike over here. And, I imagine flying will be considerably cheaper and safer than attempting to ship them.