Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

[an0n]

Has anyone else been watching this documentary series on Netflix regarding the Steven Avery trials? Crazy good watch that really exposes a lot of interesting details surrounding all of the details with the cases he was "involved" in. Curious to hear thoughts if anyone has watched it

[Blindgreed1]

Has anyone else been watching this documentary series on Netflix regarding the Steven Avery trials? Crazy good watch that really exposes a lot of interesting details surrounding all of the details with the cases he was "involved" in. Curious to hear thoughts if anyone has watched it

Yeah I finished it the first week it was available.

[QueenBee]

Has anyone else been watching this documentary series on Netflix regarding the Steven Avery trials? Crazy good watch that really exposes a lot of interesting details surrounding all of the details with the cases he was "involved" in. Curious to hear thoughts if anyone has watched it

OK, now you have my attention. Will have to give it a look this weekend

[ScientistsCanvas]

I've just finished it. I came here specifically to hear others' thoughts on it. I don't remember the case at all, is there a thread here about it??

[Midwest Spy]

I've just finished it. I came here specifically to hear others' thoughts on it. I don't remember the case at all, is there a thread here about it??

Okay, I watched the entire documentary.

As much as it would appear that the Manitowoc County Sherrif's Dept had it out for Avery, at the end of the day I do believe he committed this crime.

In 2009 he apparently tried to say his brothers framed him so that they could get control of the family business, and because they were jealous that he was about to win the settlement for the wrongful conviction in the 1980's.

I also believe his nephew was there and participated.

The show was very good, and definitely left me wondering and shaking my head at times, but I personally think the right people are behind bars.

[Donovan]

I watched the first few episodes. I am always struck at how some people seem to have star crossed lives. That guy couldn't catch a break if you tossed it to him underhand.

[HairOfTheDog]

Has anyone else been watching this documentary series on Netflix regarding the Steven Avery trials? Crazy good watch that really exposes a lot of interesting details surrounding all of the details with the cases he was "involved" in. Curious to hear thoughts if anyone has watched it

We're going to start watching the documentary tonight an0n; interesting case.

There is no existing thread for this one, so I added to your thread title to make it easier for those searching to discuss it.


Based on everything I've read about the evidence, I tend to believe that Steven Avery ^ is right where he belongs and LE got the right men, but not necessarily the right way. However, I'm open minded and the documentary may sway me.

Anyway, the exposure generated by the series has certainly benefited Avery tremendously. Kathleen Zellner is about as good as it gets when it comes to defense attorneys achieving exonerations for their convicted clients. She just announced that she will be taking over his defense. Avery' mother and supporters are elated.

[HairOfTheDog]

Since Avery is all out of appeals, he won't get a new trial based on procedural error or anything of that nature. Compelling new evidence must be obtained. I'm sure Zeller and the Midwest Innocence Project will be poring over everything in the case files, re-interviewing witnesses, and looking for potential new suspects.

Avery previously blamed his brothers for killing Teresa Halsbach after she disappeared while visiting the family's salvage yard to take a photo for Auto Trader magazine and her car key was found in Steven Avery's bedroom, along with her car and charred bones found at the salvage yard.


It now appears the finger is being pointed at her own brother, Michael, pictured above with Teresa (RIP).

The Daily Mail has a good overview of where things stand now and several photos: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...awyer.html

[Blindgreed1]

Since Avery is all out of appeals, he won't get a new trial based on procedural error or anything of that nature. Compelling new evidence must be obtained. I'm sure Zeller and the Midwest Innocence Project will be poring over everything in the case files, re-interviewing witnesses, and looking for potential new suspects.

Avery previously blamed his brothers for killing Teresa Halsbach after she disappeared while visiting the family's salvage yard to take a photo for Auto Trader magazine and her car key was found in Steven Avery's bedroom, along with her car and charred bones found at the salvage yard.


It now appears the finger is being pointed at her own brother, Michael, pictured above with Teresa (RIP).

The Daily Mail has a good overview of where things stand now and several photos: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...awyer.html

He and her ex boyfriend were always the suspects I've been most interested in. Unlike MS, I don't think Avery or his nephew did it. Quite frankly, I think the jury was left with evidence that was likely manufactured but was not able to be ruled out. I don't think anyone in the Avery family has the intelligence to pull off something like this. The key in question is one of the most suspect pieces of evidence. Theresa's own DNA and finger prints were not found on her car key. And if memory serves me, the key wasn't found until their 7^th day of searching the Avery residence.

[Midwest Spy]

BG, I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, and the key and blood evidence sure look suspicious, however, have you read about Avery's phone calls to Theresa the day she disappeared?

First, he called AutoTrader asking them that she specifically be sent to his residence that day. She had been there before and had commented to her friends that Avery creeped her out.

He then calls her twice before she arrives using the 'private' feature that doesn't identify his phone number. He does this to ensure that she's still on her way.

Then, around 4:45, he dials her personal number a third time, this time w/o the private feature, obviously to try and create an alibi.

However, he's already murdered her at this point.

The nephew was involved too.

He wasn't smart enough to fabricate the story he came up with.

[Blindgreed1]

BG, I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, and the key and blood evidence sure look suspicious, however, have you read about Avery's phone calls to Theresa the day she disappeared?

First, he called AutoTrader asking them that she specifically be sent to his residence that day. She had been there before and had commented to her friends that Avery creeped her out.

He then calls her twice before she arrives using the 'private' feature that doesn't identify his phone number. He does this to ensure that she's still on her way.

Then, around 4:45, he dials her personal number a third time, this time w/o the private feature, obviously to try and create an alibi.

However, he's already murdered her at this point.

The nephew was involved too.

He wasn't smart enough to fabricate the story he came up with.

Yeah, so speaking of phone records... What about the carrier's claim that her voice mail was accessed and messages deleted? Did Avery also do that? No, the ex-BF admitted to having access to her voice mail. So yeah, him calling auto trader, and the photog regarding her coming out to photograph the van doesn't really seem all that suspicious, but deleted voice mails do. Regarding the nephew's story, I agree. He isn't smart enough to make up any story. He was coerced into following the story line the cops and PI told him to tell. That's actually well exhibited in the doc MS.

[Midwest Spy]

So BG, you're a believer that this is a giant conspiracy?

That there's got to be somebody (maybe more than 1 person) that the cops have essentially set free, in order to frame Avery and save the Manitowoc County Sherriff's Dept from having to pay out a ginormous settlement?

Or worse yet, might you believe that the cops killed Theresa themselves in order to frame Avery?

That's almost too hard to fathom when you're talking about rural Wisconsin.

[Blindgreed1]

So BG, you're a believer that this is a giant conspiracy?

That there's got to be somebody (maybe more than 1 person) that the cops have essentially set free, in order to frame Avery and save the Manitowoc County Sherriff's Dept from having to pay out a ginormous settlement?

Or worse yet, might you believe that the cops killed Theresa themselves in order to frame Avery?

That's almost too hard to fathom when you're talking about rural Wisconsin.

Yeah, you're right. It's not like anyone has ever been railroaded in Manitowoc before right? What could I have been thinking?

[Blindgreed1]

And here's a link to some of the evidence that was excluded from MAM:
http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-s...%3ADefault

[Midwest Spy]

I didn't care for any of the Manitowoc County Sherriff personnel, especially Lenk and the other guy that called in Theresa's license plate 2 days before it was found on Avery's property.

THAT really made me scratch my head.

However, if Avery is innocent, who's the real murderer?

That's what I need you to answer.

[Midwest Spy]

^ that question takes me back to Steven Avery's accusation in 2009 that his brothers tried to set him up.


What if there's validity to that?

[Blindgreed1]

I didn't care for any of the Manitowoc County Sherriff personnel, especially Lenk and the other guy that called in Theresa's license plate 2 days before it was found on Avery's property.

THAT really made me scratch my head.

However, if Avery is innocent, who's the real murderer?

That's what I need you to answer.

Nobody will ever be able to answer that definitively MS because "someone" has tampered with the evidence. So that brings us to "who is this someone?" Right? Do you honestly believe Avery or anyone in his family is capable of this sort of thing? I don't. In order to conclude that he's guilty of this, someone in his "camp" cleaned that key and the restraints and left ONLY Avery's DNA on the key and someone else who is NOT Theresa's DNA on the restraints. Also, if the fire wasn't capable of degrading the human bones with tissue on them, then that would suggest that the remains weren't burned in Avery's fire pit. So you have essentially no DNA evidence that includes Theresa and Avery. No physical evidence that includes Theresa and Avery on Avery's property besides the vehicle that one of the cops called in 2 days before the vehicle was found. AND, if Avery was capable of masterminding such an elaborate cover up, how is it that he didn't just crush the vehicle in his car crusher? Because somebody wanted that vehicle found on his property with trace DNA evidence from Avery in it.

[Midwest Spy]

Why the 2 calls to Theresa with the *67 feature before she arrives and why the call at 4:45 without that feature?

I also need you to say it:

The cops killed Theresa.

Edit: see, I believe Avery thought he'd be untouchable if he committed this crime in lieu of what had transpired.

The opportunity presented itself and he went for it.

[HairOfTheDog]

I absolutely think that Steven Avery and/or other members of the Avery family could be capable of killing Teresa and trying to cover their tracks.

Steven Avery himself claimed that his brothers were sexually violent and may have wanted to get rid of him for money reasons, etc... So, he's either cunning enough to lie about that to create doubt (with disregard about the impacts on his family), or members of the family are capable of the crime according to members of the family themselves.

Plus, a lot of unsophisticated and unintelligent criminals haven't gotten away with worse, and other such criminals have been convicted for worse. Many of the people sitting on death row are unsophisticated and unintelligent, some of them convicted based on very solid or almost irrefutable evidence of guilt, and still denying they did the crimes.

Still haven't had a chance to watch Making A Murderer though, and still open minded.

[Blindgreed1]

Why the 2 calls to Theresa with the *67 feature before she arrives and why the call at 4:45 without that feature?

I also need you to say it:

The cops killed Theresa.

Edit: see, I believe Avery thought he'd be untouchable if he committed this crime in lieu of what had transpired.

The opportunity presented itself and he went for it.

Great theory. Motive?