Cliven Bundy vs. Government land management

[HairOfTheDog]

Your "if it's on the internet, it must be true!" bit doesn't apply here, F.U.

What I posted isn't an internet blog opinion or unsourced internet claim. The results of the investigation are contained in official documents, summaries of which are available on the internet, in public broadcasts, in books...

The investigation did not bode favorably for the government in terms of how the conflict started and how it was (mis)managed. But, the government absolutely did not storm in and kill the Davidians with a rat-a-tat-tat -- that's not debatable. And, while I believe and accept the arson investigators' conclusions, it doesn't concern or bother me that you don't.

[F.U.]

Official documents never lie. Cover ups never happen and the Gov is always honest.

Not gunna buy it, but it don't bother me that you do. To each their own.

[HairOfTheDog]

Negotiations off to a slow start...

Ammon Bundy, who believes that he owns the moral high ground, knows what's good for people better than they know for themselves, and is THE source for interpreting the Constitution (a divine scripture, in his mind) is now in negotiations with the FBI. Well, sort of.

He -- along with militia members Ryan Payne and Fluffy Unicorn -- showed up at the FBI base at the Burns' airport yesterday, reporters in tow.

In a brief phone meeting from outside the base, Ammon Bundy made it clear to an FBI negotiator that he will not talk about or negotiate a resolution to the three-week occupation of the refuge until his demands are met.

Bundy said he required someone from the FBI meet him face-to-face for the discussions. Bundy then asked the FBI negotiator if he was LDS (Mormon), and the negotiator say 'no', which caused Bundy to lose a bet. He thinks the FBI is smart and they usually send in like minded people, he said.

Today, the FBI met with Bundy face-to-face, but it was a very brief encounter. Bundy demanded that reporters be present at the negotiations and the FBI declined.

Then Bundy challenged the FBI's authority and asked if Harney County Sheriff David Ward gave authorization for the FBI to operate in the county. “If you’re not acting under the authority of the sheriff, then that’s another constitutional violation. If you haven’t got sanctioned by the sheriff, then there’s no reason for me to be talking to you,” Bundy added. “I need to just go down to the sheriff and talk to him.”

Bundy reportedly then went to the sheriff’s office, but Sheriff Ward declined to meet with him because Bundy showed up unannounced.

Stayed tuned...

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-ore...bundy-fbi/

[Cutz]

...

It's like the newest Soap Opera. Fluffy Unicorn? If this whole thing turns out to be the next big show from Fox, then I called it right here and now. When's the last time you heard of a criminal driving around town looking for LE?

[Duchess]

In a brief phone meeting from outside the base, Ammon Bundy made it clear to an FBI negotiator that he will not talk about or negotiate a resolution to the three-week occupation of the refuge until his demands are met.

Arrest that mutha and throw his junky ass in jail. A lawbreaker insisting his demands be met. Pfft.

...but they won't do that. They will continue to be his bitch. What the hell kind of precedent is this setting. Jesus.

[HairOfTheDog]

...

It's like the newest Soap Opera. Fluffy Unicorn? If this whole thing turns out to be the next big show from Fox, then I called it right here and now. When's the last time you heard of a criminal driving around town looking for LE?

^ This is Fluffy Unicorn, aka King Buddha, real name Brian Cavalier.

He was the bodyguard of Mormon patriarch Cliven Bundy during Cliven's militia stand-off with BLM (Bureau of Land Mgt) officers back in 2014. Fluffy Buddha Cavalier is now the bodyguard for Ammon Bundy at the Oregon occupation.

[HairOfTheDog]

Cavalier is one of the Bundy militia dudes called out by 'patriot' John Hildinger in this video, which I consider a classic.



It's been verified by the Marines that Hildinger's allegations about Cavalier are correct. Fluffy's claims of being a combat Marine in Iraq are false. He has never been in the military at all. He is an Arizona tattoo artist with a long record of DUI arrests who likes to carry guns and throw his weight around.

Hildinger's claims about Blaine Cooper have also been verified. Cooper, another key figure in the Bundy gang, is also not really a Marine. He is in fact a felon disqualified from the military. Here's his confession and explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sgso6pxufE

[HairOfTheDog]

Hildinger is also correct that another key Arizona member of the Bundgy gang, Jon Ritzheimer, was in fact a Marine reservist. Ritzheimer, however, is unhinged. In my opinion.

He led an armed anti-Islam rally at a Mosque in Arizona last year and then went into full meltdown mode when he received backlash. He blamed the media, while also lamenting that CNN and FOX haven't called him. Here he is 7 months ago ranting.



Here he is on his way to join the Bundy militia in Oregon.

[Duchess]

I know he intended for that to be a serious statement but c'mon'! Hahaha!

[HairOfTheDog]

I know he intended for that to be a serious statement but c'mon'! Hahaha!

I don't know which one you're talking about, all of them are fucking nuts.

This, to me, is probably the funniest statement of them all, from Ammon Bundy himself. When it was discovered that Ammon took out an SBA loan for $530,000 from the very federal government whose authority he frequently denies and who he claims is depriving him, CNN called him out. This is Ammon's rationalization for his blatant hypocrisy.

"I am not anti-government; there is a role for government and that the federal government's role is to protect the states from the outside world. And the state's role is to protect the counties from the federal government -- and the county's role is to protect the people from the state so the people can go about freely using their lands and resources and their rights. ... So there's a role, but all government's role is to serve the people. Whenever those governments step out, then that's when we step in."

Bundy denied he was being hypocritical about the loan because it "was an effort in assisting the people in using their rights."

My friend aussie couldn't have done a better job tossing out a word salad worthy of serious dressing down.

So.......the Bundys have cost the American taxpayers and government at least $2.5 million dollars when you combine Cliven's unpaid grazing fees and taxes over the last 20 years, Ammon's loan for his Arizona trucking business, and the cost-to-date for LE to manage the Oregon occupation.

I don't know the LE cost for Cliven's 2014 stand-off, so I didn't include it. I also didn't include the cost of damages and lost revenues to the Wildlife Center -- a nice, warm, multi-room complex with a great kitchen and HBO - all meant for its employees who've been displaced from their jobs by the Bundys.

And, these effin' 'enlightened race' freeloaders have the nerve to suggest that black people were better off as slaves than they are getting government assistance, and they insist they are entitled to land, for free, that belongs to the national public as a whole.

[Duchess]

Logically, I understand why the authorities are taking the stance they are, it is best to avoid bloodshed when possible but these lawbreakers have taken it to a level I've never seen before, they are flaunting themselves in the face of the law and I feel like they are daring the police to do something. There needs to come a time when action is taken, what's to stop other like minded people from doing the same?

[HairOfTheDog]

In my opinion, this is a case where social media and other media are huge assets to the public.

We know exactly who these guys are; liars, fakers, and hand-out takers. They are nothing more than greedy criminals and thieves -- led by controlling, self-inflated, religious extremists. Declaring themselves defenders of American citizens against the tyranny of the federal government is presumptuous idiocy.

It seems clear to me that very few American citizens are fooled by their delusional bullshit (which some of the militia members probably actually believe). I think maybe the longer the government lets them show their true colors and doesn't take the bait, the more the public will condemn the militia and support LE/government action once a line in the sand is drawn.

It's my hope that the FBI gives the green light to start cutting off access in the next few days. And, it's also my hope that Cliven Bundy will be going down with his boys and all three will be spending time in prison real soon. The lack of consequences for that old asshole is what set the precedent for what's happening now, in my view.

Anyway, if authorities manage a bloodless but strategic and punitive outcome, other extremist militias might realize that trying to pull the same shit will only make them laughing stocks and convicts.

[Cutz]

the Wildlife Center -- a nice, warm, multi-room complex with a great kitchen and HBO - all meant for its employees who've been displaced from their jobs by the Bundys.

Why are government employees watching HBO at work?

[HairOfTheDog]

The Wildlife Center includes accommodations for employees, including rangers, to stay there overnight and over the weekends due to the location and the weather, Cutz.

A Vanity Fair investigative reporter visited the refuge center and met with some of the occupiers. He noted that the buildings inside the refuge were designed to offer all the comforts of home, with a sizable headquarters containing a large kitchen, living room, bathrooms with showers, and a hallway of bedrooms.

There are a couple of pictures in his piece. While the militia received mostly gag gifts in response to there plea for supplies, they also have enough snacks and food to last a good long time, he noted. Article: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/t...ed-militia

[Duchess]

Article: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/t...ed-militia

I read it.

Fruitcake armed militiaman to reporter - “You are truly going to witness the cream of humanity’s moral possibility here.”

[Cutz]

Let me rephrase.

Why is the American taxpayer paying for HBO at a park ranger station?

[blueberryhill]

Let me rephrase.

Why is the American taxpayer paying for HBO at a park ranger station?

Having worked for the US Forest Service, I might have a clue. Very often you have to ask personnel to be on TDY status. This causes hardships for families, the employee, etc.....to provide amenities is to offset disadvantages so that they can retain qualified employees and aren't subjected to the revolving door of employees leaving because of work environment. Although the National Park Service is a separate entity, their employment practices are similar to US Forest Service. This would include work stations in remote areas, e.g, fire towers, etc. Very often you work in isolation....another comparison is the way firefighters maintain a home like work environment so that when they pull several days of duty, they are comfortable, can watch TV, movies, cook, etc.....

Ummm.....if you consider HBO a luxury, that is O.K., but I cancelled premium channels years ago because you are lucky to get one new movie a month....they are mostly old movies. Direct TV has free previews every few weeks so if there is a new movie among them, that is so exciting. Well, they are never new, but you get my drift. I think if Cable wants to stay in business, they need to add these "premium" channels to basic packages or Netflix will over take them and thus, we will someday see the demise of Cable tv.....IMO, of course.....

[Duchess]

I wouldn't begrudge my tax dollars going for that. I think it's fair.

[Duchess]

...the fuckin' cell phones are another story though.

[blueberryhill]

P.S. I am not sure this is right thread, but I must say, it reminds me of the post I made earlier on another thread (political)

I want to know why there is a luxury tax on tampons? Reason for tax: male dominated Congress made up of silly old coots living in the past with a history of discrimination. They say it would be too complicated to change (real meaning - we are too lazy to do that and we don't care). This issue is complicated like every other law we have, but you can look it up if interested....