Old news, but defo Assholes

[Duchess]

I asked myself if I would watch the real deal if it were posted now.

I told some people about that video & where to find it. *face palm*

[Maggot]

I told you the kid was trouble!!!

[blueberryhill]

Whatever happened with the parents?

I haven't seen anything from Eric Harris' parents, Six.

But, Dylan Klebold's parents have done a couple of interviews over the years.

They are, by all accounts, a stable couple who raised their son in a normal family environment and were clueless about their son's mindset and plans.

Although they were blamed for their son's actions by 85% of the public (according to surveys), they said they won't ask for forgiveness because Dylan didn't do what he did because of how he was raised, but rather despite how he was raised. They still live in the same house and kept their jobs -- they did not want to go into hiding.

Mrs. Klebold has a book coming out later this month and will be interviewed by Dianne Sawyer. She also works with organizations dedicated to spotting and treating mental illness in teens.

One thing I've always disagreed with her about is her characterization of Columbine as a suicide. To me, that's minimizing her son's actions and the impacts to the families of the teens her son and his friend murdered; it was a murder / suicide. Maybe that view has changed or will be explained.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.2303218

LE found all kinds of weaponry, and devices meant to kill in the garage of one of the killers (can't recall which one, now). The public wondered how your kid could be building pipe bombs, etc. right under your nose.

Both killers had written documentation of their desire to kill classmates who had bullied them and they particularly didn't like the school "jocks," however, most of the victims were not jocks.....They wrote "play" depicting massacre, they made video about their fantasies of killing their "oppressors,"they both had dealings with LE before this and although teachers, etc. noticed this and some even reported these actions, it just wasn't enough to take action. One of the killers was taking zoloft or some kind of anti-depressant, and there was some finger pointing at the drug manufacturer....I can't be sure it was zoloft.

Sorry, but my memory is murky as to which one did what.......but at the time, I thought there was enough signs to put these kids away for life, but that is easier said than done...The evidence they had just wasn't enough prior to the killings....As I recall, they had been to counseling and thus, the anti-depressant, but today, your Physician can and does prescribe that without any counseling.

There are almost always signs before these mass shootings occur, but no defined plan of action, no clear cut model of mental health treatment, so your hands are tied until something explosive occurs, and by then, the shooter has killed himself along with his victims...

Summary: Some people detected these guys were dangerous, but because there is no protocol for this, even today, in 2016, it makes it very frustrating to get appropriate treatment, and/or confinement. You might report it as a teacher, or even as a parent, but individual falls through the crack, because we have do not have a clear cut protocol for these sociopaths. It is a fact that some parents are more involved in their children's life than others, but sometimes, degree of parenting isn't relevant. I have seen the frustration of parents who reach out for help and there are zero resources. I can't speak to how much or little these parents were involved, but I am certain that they all knew something was "off" with their kid.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks blueberry.

There's a lot of misinformation about Harris and Klebold, their motives, their targets, the attack.

The tapes and journals found in Harris' basement tell the real story. The teens wanted them found. But, by the time the tapes were discovered and reviewed, the public and the media had already created a narrative that's entrenched and difficult to change.

They were not bullied and never claimed they were. They had friends, both were extremely intelligent but rebellious in their own ways - not way outside the norm in what they presented outwardly though. In all their tapes and documents, they never indicated that they were going to target jocks, or popular kids, or blacks or anything like that.

They simply wanted to exceed the body count of Timothy McVeigh with their homemade bombs; they weren't targeting anyone specifically. The guns were secondary and ended up being what they used to kill many fewer random classmates than they'd planned when their bombs failed to detonate.

The tapes and journals reveal that Eric Harris was pretty much a psychopath who could fool people and Dylan Klebold was a depressive who self-medicated with alcohol and contemplated suicide at times.

This is a good summary of the teens' own explanations about what they were planning and why, along with what actually happened that day, by Dave Cullen. Their last words on the tapes (end of article) might explain why Mrs. Klebold always talks about Dylan's actions as suicide and not homicide (though he was definitely a murderer to me, even if he was a suicidal one).

Columbine, what really happened: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/ap...-columbine

[Duchess]

In my mind, that school shooting was the beginning of them all. I know I watched hour after hour of media coverage on CNN. It was shocking to me, horrifying really, I don't recall seeing something on that scale before then. I vaguely remember the kid hanging out the window, my biggest memory is of all the kids with their hands up and behind their heads and for days afterwards it was everywhere, morning, noon & night. No school shooting after that, except for Sandy Hook, has stuck with me like those two have.

[blueberryhill]

I just read the article quoted above written by Dave Cullen, in the Guardian, dated 2009...was well written....

I certainly think both of them wanted to go down as the Number #1 mass killers in history....but don't think that was only motive.

I think both of these boys were deluged with complicated mental issues and taking medications for them, but I don't recall if the one who was diagnosed with a psychosis was taking an anti-psychotic drug...I know one was taking an anti-depressant which was appropriate for him (Harris)....I just remember his parents wanting to make drug company take part or all of the responsibility for the murders.

No, these guys would not meet legal definition of insane in Court of Law,
but most of us would agree they are crazy...just another reason, I think some of our laws need updating and streamlined to fit more accurate legal definitions. I think all killers are to some degree, "crazy," but court doesn't agree...but it is a quandary.

In Harris' journal, he indicated he was sick of being left out of the fun things and never being invited to stuff saying no one wanted the weird looking kid, Eric, to come along....(paraphrased from wiki-journal)

n Dylan's journal, he wrote that he has been getting shit from everyone for years and that those people were going to pay for it, and that he and Eric were both going to die doing it....(paraphrased from wiki-journal)

I think it was witnesses (in library) who heard one of the killers ask a potential victim if he was a jock.....and probably would account for any media coverage re that....just like Rachel Scott was asked if she believed in God...don't think answer mattered...it was just torture before the kill.....oh, gosh it could have been Lauren who was asked the question.

They did warn one of their friends not to go to school that day, think his last name was Brown...my memory sucks...

I think reasons, motives, etc are far more complicated in this case....I agree about them wanting to become famous, but I think, they also wanted to get even with all those who, they perceived, had mistreated them....If not for Dylan, I think Eric Harris would still be alive today along with all of shooting victims....

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't read the journals myself, blueberry. I've just read summaries of them.

The media reported that Harris and Klebold had been taunted and pushed around at school, which wasn't the case based on what I've read. But, the parts of their journals you noted might explain where the "bullied" bit stemmed from; their perceptions of being left out or shit on.

Klebold definitely struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. And, both teens had gotten in trouble for stealing and gone through a corrections program, at which they reportedly excelled and then went back to their basement activities.

I agree there was probably more than one motivator between the two of them. I think Harris primarily wanted the perceived glory of killing more people than anyone else in a single incident and was willing to die to get it; and Klebold looked up to Harris, bought into the 'game', and wanted to die anyway. They didn't go to school that day looking to shoot up a bunch of people who'd bullied them, but I think that's still what most people believe. They wanted to bomb the place to smithereens.

Anyway, I doubt I'll read Mrs. Klebold's book, though it's good that she's donating all the proceeds to mental health. But, I'll probably watch the Dianne Sawyer interview. I'd like to hear what she has to say.

[Cutz]

I went on to read the comments and it turns out that this was a movie based on actual shootings. "Zero Day" is name of movie and it was released in 2003...according to info on internet.

Thanks for checking up on that. It was somewhat disturbing how nonchalant they were through the clip, and the counting thing was surreal.

[HairOfTheDog]

I just read the article quoted above written by Dave Cullen, in the Guardian, dated 2009...was well written....

I think reasons, motives, etc are far more complicated in this case....I agree about them wanting to become famous, but I think, they also wanted to get even with all those who, they perceived, had mistreated them....If not for Dylan, I think Eric Harris would still be alive today along with all of shooting victims....

It's interesting that you think Eric and the fatal victims would be alive were it not for Dylan, blueberry. Most comments I've read from case followers over the years see it the other way around. I haven't read the journals, so I don't really have an informed opinion as to whether one would likely have been a murderer without the influence of the other.

Dave Cullen in an investigative reporter who's been covering Columbine for many years. His website has a lot of good information, court docs, photos. If anyone is interested in reading the journals or checking out other evidence, it can be found here: http://www.columbine-online.com/