TRUMP IMPEACHMENT

[Duchess]

...aaaaaand now they want to impeach President Obama retroactively.  

Mockers, this is what happens when you stiff people for payment, no one qualified will work for you.

[Maggot]

So following this a bit it seems Bolton who has spent 2.5 months writing a book has had the N.Y. times create a long winded editorial about it without quoting a single sentence from the book OK I get that but then the Dems say "look at the NY times they have the skinny on Boltons book" Now they want to introduce this as evidence after presenting their articles and 18 witnesses presentations. Shiff says 17 but there is one more that will never see the light of day, it's a "secret"

Trumps lawyers did good today, they presented the real facts, but it's not covered now like it was before.........It's part of the theater pretty much. 

I wonder who writes a decent book in 2.5 months? Not any literary genius, maybe a pack of industrial pencil pushers but who knows? I don't think I could it would take me at least 5 years.
Selling books is a tough job.

[Maggot]

Even Shummer came out today saying Bolton was "ordered" to do something according he said from what the NY times article said and even that was wrong when the times actually said he was  "predicted" to do. Shummer took it on his own to change the times story, third time news .............we have all played that game around the campfire. But there will be no retraction, Oh no, the news has hit the streets. 

This is a way to win an election not save the country.Tactics like this should be delegated to some idiot playing a game in their parents cellar.

[HairOfTheDog]

...aaaaaand now they want to impeach President Obama retroactively.  

Mockers, this is what happens when you stiff people for payment, no one qualified will work for you.

I don't agree with him that the articles of impeachment against Trump are 'unconstitutional'.

Aside from that characterization, however, I thought Alan Dershowitz just made a compelling case (and offered Republican senators a good justification/cover) for voting not to remove Trump from office -- based on Dershowitz's research and interpretations of the founding fathers' intent regarding impeachment.

The other defense attorneys' arguments were pure caca though, I agree.

[pyropappy]

[pyropappy]

everyone needs to spend the hour to watch this video; Dershowitz gives a fantastic history lesson on the Constitution. I submit, if your actions make Alan Dershowitz appear to be the reddest conservative in the room, you better rethink your rhetoric.

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't seen anyone claim that Dershowitz is the reddest conservative in the room Pappy.

I watched Dershowitz's full presentation real-time and think he made a much more compelling argument and presentation than the other attorneys on Trump's team yesterday (which was quite a low bar).   At least Dershowitz actually delivered a legal argument based on the case at hand, unlike Trump's other attorneys.  

For Republican Senators who know that Trump's actions in regards to the Ukraine shakedown were corrupt abuses of presidential power, but don't want to vote him out of office over it..................I can see them using some of Dershowitz's points to justify their votes without having to foolishly pretend that Trump did nothing wrong, that Trump's personal attorney and ringmaster Giuliani is just a shiny object who should simply be forgotten, that Obama should have been impeached, etc. 

Those such "look over there!! / no you!" / Democrats are bad!!" types of arguments by the other attorneys came across to me as transparently foolish attempts to distract from the facts in the case at hand.

[HairOfTheDog]

Anyway, while the history he cited in his argument is accurate (as far as I can tell), Dershowitz's interpretation/application of the history in attempt to defend his client Trump is self-serving and lacks credibility, to me.

Dershowitz can call himself a 'constitutional scholar rather than a defense attorney in this case' all he wants.  But, he is in fact one of Trump's defense attorneys and is thus putting forth a historical foundation and personal interpretation which suits his client's purposes -- "if the glove don't fit, you must acquit" kind of deal.  

In fact, Dershowitz has made the exact opposite public arguments regarding criminal statutes as they relate to impeachment throughout his whole career, up til now.  His constitutional interpretation and application was correct back then (when he didn't have a horse in the race), not now, in my opinion.

[Clang McFly]

Amen.

[Maggot]

We can easily forgive injury but can never forgive contempt. Ben Franklin. I will be happy to see the whistle blowers testimony along with Biden, Shift, Trump, and Bolton. Lets get it on.   Lets see how the whistle blowers testimony was groomed, lets see testimony from  #18 deemed top secret by Shift. This will be amazingly great for Trumps re-election and will do more damage to Biden than anything Trump could have done. Political theater at best.

[Duchess]

We can easily forgive injury but can never forgive contempt. Ben Franklin. I will be happy to see the whistle blowers testimony along with Biden, Shift, Trump, and Bolton. Lets get it on.   Lets see how the whistle blowers testimony was groomed, lets see testimony from  #18 deemed top secret by Shift. This will be amazingly great for Trumps re-election and will do more damage to Biden than anything Trump could have done. Political theater at best.

Your majority rules. There is nothing stopping them from issuing subpoenas. 

What do the Bidens have to do with the articles of impeachment? Hunter Biden could have committed crime after crime in Ukraine and it still wouldn't have anything to do with trump's impeachment. This is trump's impeachment. Heh

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't see any indications that the impeachment proceedings are helping Trump's re-election chances at all, at least not to date.

It looks like about the same number of people who strongly supported and voted for Trump in 2016 still support him and remain motivated to vote for him in 2020.   

Likewise, registered Democratic voters appear to overwhelmingly support their elected congresspersons for exercising their Executive oversight responsibilities and remain motivated to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2020.    

Seems like a wash to me as of now, though we don't know how or if Independent voters have been affected by the impeachment process.

The fact that 75% of Americans now want to hear from impeachment witnesses with direct knowledge, like John Bolton, is surely not regarded as a positive development for Trump and company though......considering that Trump and McConnell have thus far refused to allow direct-knowledge witness testimony.

I think the pressure on them to allow witnesses will likely continue to grow, particularly in light of the new Bolton revelations from his upcoming book manuscript.

Whether witness testimony would sway Senators' impeachment votes at all..........I don't know.  But, I do think it could sway 2020 voters, especially Independents voters.

[Duchess]

People are paying attention to this, even Jack & Jill in Bumfuck.

[Maggot]

I disagree, nobody wants to hear any of this crap and are getting really sick of it. TDS is peaking.

[BigMark]

People think an impeachment trial is an impeachment.

[Maggot]

²⁄₃ majority is needed so it gives me a bigger headache when I think about it. Why waste my time?

[HairOfTheDog]

People think an impeachment trial is an impeachment.

What people? 

I haven't come across anyone who doesn't understand that Trump has already been impeached by the House (though his attorneys seem to be grappling with the concept) and that the Senate impeachment trial's purpose is to determine whether the impeached President should be removed from office.

[Duchess]

I disagree, nobody wants to hear any of this crap and are getting really sick of it. TDS is peaking.

I'm not arguing that you and those you hang with are sick of it, I'm stating that people across America and the world are paying attention to this. I see them everyday, people are informed and paying attention.

[Duchess]

People think an impeachment trial is an impeachment.

trump is impeached, it will be the very first line in his obituary. He will go down in history as the shittiest president ever. He took the mantle from George.

[HairOfTheDog]

I disagree, nobody wants to hear any of this crap and are getting really sick of it. TDS is peaking.

Not 'everybody' is interested or paying attention, of course.  

However, your claim that 'nobody' is interested and considers it sickening crap is just more inaccurate and presumptuous bullshit Mags.  Some on all sides give a big fuck, some give a small fuck, and some don't give a fuck at all.

I don't really understand why you so frequently presume to speak for everyone and insist they all think like you do when it's always false and never bolsters your point/opinion.   MDS, maybe?