RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN 2016 US ELECTION & SPIN-OFF INVESTIGATIONS

[aussiefriend]

Fry Guy what do you do for a crust? What brought you here in 2009? Why haven't you posted much?

[Fry Guy]

Oh I am contracted to a large Australian company. I am supporting some platforms. To be honest until recently I really sucked at my job. They launch another BIG platform and I somehow got it. They needed people in a specialist team to support it. I was a natural choice. It has got me away from the ones I suck at and I can achieve at this new one.

May sound a bit vague and a bit boring. It is.

What bought me back here? Well a big part of the reason is Duchess. I have always had a soft spot for Duchess. I rate her highly and I wanted to make sure you were here.

Some of you may remember who and what I was about in years gone by but I did not dislike this forum, nor Duchess. I disliked a certain clique and environment here. I came on here years ago to throw everything but the kitchen sink at a few now ex-members that I am happy not to mention. This forum has evolved into a really interesting and cool place. Quite suited to the me of today.

As for why I did not post before? Many reasons but primarily and without getting the violin out, life was pretty tough and desperate at times. Times have mellowed and so have I. Life is okay and I am in a place where I am cool posting and enjoying doing so.

[aussiefriend]

I think I know what you are talking about Fry Guy, I got ganged up on once, and it was really intense. Cracker was a shitstirrer.

[Duchess]

What bought me back here? Well a big part of the reason is Duchess. I have always had a soft spot for Duchess. I rate her highly and I wanted to make sure you were here.

That's so nice. Thanks, it was lovely to read, honey.

I remember when you used to lobby for MF to make me a Mod. It seems like a lifetime ago.

[HairOfTheDog]

Manafort's first trial sure is moving quickly; Judge Ellis is a taskmaster.  The prosecution is now expected to rest its case in one week instead of three weeks.

Yesterday one of the prosecutors informed the court that the team has every intention of calling Rick Gates to the stand.



At the start of the trial, defense lawyer Thomas Zehnle shifted the blame for Manafort's alleged crimes onto Gates (pictured above), accusing him of embezzling money and betraying his partner's trust. 

Gates pleaded guilty in February to lying to investigators and conspiracy against the United States. He agreed as part of his plea deal to fully cooperate with the government and will testify, if called.

I don't think the defense has a very good shot at shifting the blame to Gates.  So far, prosecutors have presented evidence showing many of the extravagant purchases made directly by Manafort which appear outside the means of his reported income.  

Yesterday, prosecutors called Manafort's bookkeeper to the stand.  She testified that she was not aware of the accounts he had in foreign banks.  Prosecutors also called witnesses who worked in Manafort's organization.  They seem to have liked Manafort, and they indicated that he called the shots and had tight reins on the businesses.

Today, the jury is being presented the paper trail, including tax returns.

Ref:  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/rick-gat...utors.html

[Fry Guy]

Are they going to show how he colluded with the Russians to influence the results of the 2016 election?

[Duchess]

No, none of that will be allowed. It's purely financial in nature.

[Fry Guy]

They don't have it.
I mean Paul Mannafort IS guilty but of no more or less than many in those sleazy circles do. It is like arresting Real Estate Agents for not being forth coming about flaws with a house or over the phone sales people of not giving the customers all the information to make an informed choice.
We all know these sharks will act like sharks and certain industry that attract them prosper because of individuals that are amoral and motivated. I would say that Mannafort is no better or worse than many in Washington BUT the CRIME that had the FBI up his arse was being associated (however small duration) with President Trump. I think it is silly to pretend otherwise.
There was no collusion. None to be found. They knew he was scum and they would find something and they hoped they could use this to turn the screws on someone he did not know well nor would have much loyalty to. Like torturing someone when they do not have any real information, the torture will turn up the intensity and The tortured will give them anything to work with. In this case all the FBI got was Gates who they had already exonerated to get Mannafort to ultimately get Trump.

There was no collusion to find. It was a partisan witch hunt. It was set up outside the law by a collection of entities who had no business working collusively to try to invalidate a President's election.

In the coming this narrative and multi-faceted push to bring down Trump WILL self-implode and the only chance it has of avoiding complete and undeniable exposure will be the mid-term. If Democrats want to bury the evidence of the collusion between the Democratic Senators, the DNC, The establishment Republicans, the Media, The foremost Intelligence Agencies and various Lobbyist, Power Brokers and Activist organisations, they better do MUCH better than the Republicans in the Midterms. I would encourage that they should lie and cheat and intimidate if they want it buried. Andy McCabe is not going to be the only real casualty in this. It is going to get messy. Really messy.

[HairOfTheDog]

The legal situation with Paul Manafort is a little confusing.  

The current trial is for financial crimes only, as Duchess noted.  Those had to be filed in the state which they occurred (Virginia).  

The trial for those alleged financial crimes didn't have to occur in Virginia however.  Manafort had the option of having those charges combined with the 'Conspiracy to Defraud the United States" charges for which he was later indicted, as was his deputy Rick Gates (who pleaded guilty and is cooperating with the Special Prosecutor).

Manafort did not agree to combine the trials, reportedly because he and his legal team figured the Washington DC trial for conspiracy would come first and the DC population (and thus the jury pool) is more liberal than Virginia.  But, the trial sequence didn't work out that way because the Virginia court moves much faster than most.  

So, Manafort is being tried for the financial crimes, which are not tied directly to the Russian interference, in Virginia now.  He'll be tried for Conspiracy against the U.S., which is directly related to Russian interference, in DC in September.

Mueller was able to secure an indictment against Manafort for conspiring against the U.S., so Mueller's team presented evidence to support the conspiracy allegations. Whether the evidence proves Manafort was conspiring with Russia to affect the results of our 2016 Presidential election and whether Mueller's team can convince a jury of that beyond reasonable doubt remains to be seen.

The best background and explanation that I've read regarding the charges, the separate trials and such is here:  https://www.vox.com/2018/7/31/17590846/p...ump-russia

I think Roger Stone is likely to be indicted for  Conspiracy fairly soon as well.  That's just my opinion based on Stone's own statements during the campaign in regards to the illegally hacked DNC emails and Stone's current appearances and statements on all the cable news shows.

[Fry Guy]

It is just trying to keep the narrative afloat to the Midterms. It is strategy.
It is actually a great strategy. Imagine if you are part of the effort trying to invalidate Trump and cover up the collusion you and your cohorts were actively engaged in to bring down Trump. You know you and all of your cross over very clear lines in the sand and that you are facing punishment collectively and individually for a multitude of violations.
The ultimate answer HAS to be take back control.
The FBI is a wasteland of ex-employees who are being investigated themselves and their second in command has been fired without pension. Page is co-operating. Things are grim. The things in the FISA and investigations are being stonewalled and redacted and you have Rosenstein, in DOJ, as last man standing. Rosenstein though signing off on Comey's dismisal has appointed a special counsel, Mueller to investigate Russian collusion in the Trump campaign.
You have diminishing control as each push gives up a little more of your collusion and voilations and breaches of regulations and procedures. The media will cover for you. The Democrats will run inference but it is slowly coming undone.

Midterms.
Get to the midterms with the narratives still intact somewhat and win control of the house and senate! Impeach Trump. Who cares what on? Shut down investigations on everything. All old news. Let Trump's legacy be worse than Obama as pay back. Let Mueller indict and punish a few for non-related crimes and restore the public's faith in the government and media. Let the investigations into such things as Clinton Foundation and Uranium One and the false FISA warrants and Steele Dossier all be a thing of the past. No convictions, no problems and nothing to see here.

Of course, IF they do not have any luck in winning back the House or the Senate, they are screwed

[Maggot]

Interesting information has been revealed:

Clinton corruption

[Duchess]

Interesting information has been revealed:

Clinton corruption

  Clinton corruption, huh. Ha! You're a funny dude. The only time her name is even mentioned in the article you posted is when it was said her campaign paid for the dossier. You always forget that it was a republican that first requested & financed it.

[Maggot]

Interesting information has been revealed:

Clinton corruption

  Clinton corruption, huh. Ha! You're a funny dude. The only time her name is even mentioned in the article you posted is when it was said her campaign paid for the dossier. You always forget that it was a republican that first requested & financed it.

On October 24, 2017, it was reported that the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) paid Fusion GPS for opposition research that included the Steele Dossier. This work was facilitated by the law firm Perkins Coie, and the firm stated that the campaign and the DNC were not aware that the research was being conducted by Fusion GPS. It was later reported on October 27, 2017 that Fusion GPS was initially hired to do opposition research on Republican presidential candidates by the conservative website The Washington Free Beacon. The Free Beacon has stated that the work provided to them by Fusion GPS did not contain the information in the Steele Dossier, indicating that Steele was hired by Fusion GPS once the Clinton campaign and the DNC had begun funding the work.

Started by a conservative website that did not get any info and taken over by the DNC and Clinton campaign.

funding link 

[Duchess]

I feel that you turn a blind eye to this awful administration after being so vocal about the last one. I'm often left with the impression that you just don't care how despicable these people are. This administrations Cabinet are filled with grifters, the GOP also turns a blind eye to what is going down on a daily basis and I'm not even going to touch on family playing a role in this White House. I feel so strongly about this that I would stake my life on you losing your mind if these kinds of things were done by a Democratic administration.

[Maggot]

My biggest problem with the left is the double standard that they use as proof that their way is the best way. There are plenty of guiding principles the right uses to be able to see reality not an imagined reality. The left is great at giving away things as though there is an endless supply to hand out to whomever they deem is worthy. I try to find something, anything that the left is good at and greed and corruption usually ends up finding its way to the top. I personally believe that politicians do not deserve the pedestal they stand on. Right or left  career politicians are some of the laziest and greediest humans on the planet, they will fight tooth and nail to keep their cushy job in order to keep the power and celebrity status they would never find in the private sector. Trump has proven himself in the real world and is president as a secondary career not so with his detractors.

[Fry Guy]

Wait a moment. Duchess. I am an Aussie so you will need to clarify this. You just said:

"The only time her name is even mentioned in the article you posted is when it was said her campaign paid for the dossier. You always forget that it was a republican that first requested & financed it."

Maggott retorted:

"On October 24, 2017, it was reported that the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) paid Fusion GPS for opposition research that included the Steele Dossier. This work was facilitated by the law firm Perkins Coie, and the firm stated that the campaign and the DNC were not aware that the research was being conducted by Fusion GPS. It was later reported on October 27, 2017 that Fusion GPS was initially hired to do opposition research on Republican presidential candidates by the conservative website The Washington Free Beacon. The Free Beacon has stated that the work provided to them by Fusion GPS did not contain the information in the Steele Dossier, indicating that Steele was hired by Fusion GPS once the Clinton campaign and the DNC had begun funding the work.

Started by a conservative website that did not get any info and taken over by the DNC and Clinton campaign."

Now assuming this is fact (and damned if I know, it is your country, you guys have a clearer idea).

Which is being truth and genuine. Not the words but the narrative.

Is it a genuine narrative that Clinton did not fund the Dossier via Fusion GPS who the contracted a ex-British Secret Service to then dig up salacious and untrue propaganda about Donald Trump and then touted it as truth to use to get a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign?

OR

are you saying that Clinton took over paying for a Dossier that was actually Republican focused (not a "Conservative website" but Republican) and that the Republicans were directing payment to Steele and him to do this propaganda dossier and she just joined in.

It is clear to me Maggots narrative is the top one and when you said "hah Clinton corruption, huh. Ha! You're a funny dude. The only time her name is even mentioned in the article you posted is when it was said her campaign paid for the dossier. You always forget that it was a republican that first requested & financed it." without parsing words, the bottom narrative seems to be the one that you are promoting.

Is Maggot's narrative true and genuine or is yours? They both cannot be. There is exactly enough facts and scope for one to be true. If his is true why are you promoting a false narrative (and it is not the only time I have heard this pretty much word for word) and if it is not, what am I missing (not semantics) but hard and fast facts. I genuinely want to know.

It seems things are about to get worse for the Steele Dossier story with Bruce Ohr and Nellie Ohr's effort with this and the FISA spying warrants and increasingly it looks like not only was there no collusion but there was also no underlying reason to spy on Trump or appoint the special counsel and his calling it (no, not the Russian inference but the efforts at targeting Trump and his campaign) a witch hunt seems rather apt.

As an outsider looking in and YES I likely miss the broader picture, but Donald Trump fairly won the election as President and the Establishment was in shock. They not only had tried to undermine him and believed his bumbling would sink him BUT they had their "insurance policy" to delegitimise him and have been aiding by the media every step of the way.

I find it unbelievable almost the lengths they have collaborated to oust him and smear him and what steps they have undertaken. It is like a witch hunt in so far as people who likely have never really reacted or done things they now consider acceptable. A "in this instance, there is no line that cannot be crossed, we have to get him out" kind of response. I have NO doubt that there are many who have broken regulations, laws and procedural protocol in their hysterical hatred of him. I personally think he is not very "Presidential" by the traditional meaning of the term. I think sometimes the carnival is entertaining and the precedent is a little scary. I think in respect to decorum and what not one hopes this Presidency and its boorishness is an anomaly.

But all of the above does not make it right or legal to do whatever it takes to get rid of him. Yes people should be prosecuted for every instance they have stepped across the line in this. For exactly the same reason it would have been okay to prosecute people doing the same under any other government. But that is both Presidential Administration of today and that of all those who overstepped the mark going after him and his administration. It does not suddenly become okay because he is Trump. He won the election and he gets his 4 or 8 years like every other President and if they want a new president, vote him out in 2020. Easy.

[Duchess]

Is Maggot's narrative true and genuine or is yours? They both cannot be. There is exactly enough facts and scope for one to be true. If his is true why are you promoting a false narrative (and it is not the only time I have heard this pretty much word for word) and if it is not, what am I missing (not semantics) but hard and fast facts. I genuinely want to know.



I find it unbelievable almost the lengths they have collaborated to oust him and smear him and what steps they have undertaken. It is like a witch hunt

I'm not promoting a false narrative, Fry Guy. The dossier originated from an investigation started during the Republican primary campaigns by the conservative news outlet, the Free Beacon, it was funded by Republican Paul Singer.



No one has had to go to unbelievable lengths to oust trump, that man & those he surrounds himself with have given people everything they need to make the case against them all, which include indictments & guilty pleas.

[BigMark]

[aussiefriend]

Oh I am contracted to a large Australian company. I am supporting some platforms. To be honest until recently I really sucked at my job. They launch another BIG platform and I somehow got it. They needed people in a specialist team to support it. I was a natural choice. It has got me away from the ones I suck at and I can achieve at this new one.

May sound a bit vague and a bit boring. It is.

What bought me back here? Well a big part of the reason is Duchess. I have always had a soft spot for Duchess. I rate her highly and I wanted to make sure you were here.

Some of you may remember who and what I was about in years gone by but I did not dislike this forum, nor Duchess. I disliked a certain clique and environment here. I came on here years ago to throw everything but the kitchen sink at a few now ex-members that I am happy not to mention. This forum has evolved into a really interesting and cool place. Quite suited to the me of today.

As for why I did not post before? Many reasons but primarily and without getting the violin out, life was pretty tough and desperate at times. Times have mellowed and so have I. Life is okay and I am in a place where I am cool posting and enjoying doing so.

For me, Duchess is my family. I know if things were desperate she would be there for me and visa versa. As for your life being upside down, I can relate to that with some turbulence that I have been through, but I just thought ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I want my life back. So I have gotten stronger and have taken my life back. No bastard is going to rob me of my life and Mock is part of my life or my friends. I feel safe in here, if anyone trying to stalk me in here, my family in here have my back. 

If you go through stuff and are in a bad place, stay here and be supported. There are people who genuinely care. There are no catfish here that are going to show up and turn out to be a fat lesbian who wants to be a rapper and has survived cancer. These are real people with real connections over years. Stay and reap the benefits of good people in your life and we will also be blessed by your presence.

[aussiefriend]

Duch, I hope that above post wasn't too heavy for you. You have always been so kind to me. When I was bullied in here, I nearly left the forum, you reached out to me and helped me through that time and helped me get better at this and get a thicker skin. I hope LC would be proud of me these days. It's not just that, it's heaps of stuff, you are gold, not financial gold, Spandau Ballet Gold.