VOTING RIGHTS

[Fry Guy]

You weren't a thought in my comment above FryGuy, though I disagree with your voter restriction proposal and find it short-sighted and non democratic. I also didn't call you any of the names you imagine and insist that I did.

And, I don't take posting assignments from your or anyone. You can keep making such foolish and condescending claims, requests, and demands. And, you can keep telling me what I think and feel, though you're obviously unqualified.

Now...........if you want to see a comment where your predictable response and line of thinking was ACTUALLY on my mind........check out the one I just posted to Duchess in the RETURN TO SENDER thread.

No, thank you HOTD.

"You can keep making such foolish and condescending claims, requests, and demands. And, you can keep telling me what I think and feel, though you're obviously unqualified"

I can actually post as I feel and I do not believe I need your permission to post as I like, right?
As to your allusion to me mindreading, let's not pretend when you say:

I think someone should be able to vote only if the amount the have accepted from the government is lower than what they have received from other sources because otherwise you are going to have people voting to give them stuff for free.I do not believe that is on its face good.

I also like the idea of identification to vote

Citizens who want to restrict other citizens from voting based on their incomes, their ages, their locales, their perceived political leanings today..............strike me as the same types of discriminatory-minded people would have fought against voting rights for blacks and women back in the day too.

On an interesting side note, back when she was a college student, Sarah Huckabee (Sanders) worked with the ACLU to fight against being restricted from voting in her college campus district.

She attended a conservative religious college and eventually won the legal right for the student body to vote in their college district, which pushed the Republican candidate to victory. https://psmag.com/social-justice/when-sa...ing-rights

However, I doubt that she'll defend college students' rights to vote in their college districts now that it's perceived that the restrictions primarily affect left-leaning young voters.

I hope she surprises me and doesn't do a full partisan about-face on the issue. Her argument was the right one 20 years ago and it remains so, in my opinion.

It is hardly a leap of logic to see I said (AND no one else here said anything similar) :

I think someone should be able to vote only if the amount the have accepted from the government is lower than what they have received from other sources because otherwise you are going to have people voting to give them stuff for free.I do not believe that is on its face good.

And you said:

Citizens who want to restrict other citizens from voting based on their incomes, their ages, their locales, their perceived political leanings today..............strike me as the same types of discriminatory-minded people would have fought against voting rights for blacks and women back in the day too.

So what to pretend that this does not apply to what I said? Want to pretend that the types of people with these opinions are likely sexist and racist? Not on me and good luck with that.

[HairOfTheDog]

Republicans in positions of power who keep dicking around with voting have forced me into the position of believing they can't win without cheating.

We really need more consistent and fair voting processes and eligibility requirements on a nationwide-basis.

Eligibility should be as broad as possible to allow as many citizens to participate as reasonable.

I do think state-by-state bi-partisan polling should stay in place as it prevents would-be hackers from affecting the national vote counts, but with more consistency and oversight between the states.

Gerrymandering is one of the biggest problems when it comes to election results reflecting the will of the people. Republicans have done it heavy-handedly for the past several years when they've maintained majority rule of the Congress and governorships. Neither party should be able to re-define district lines at will in order to secure an election advantage. Democrats have done it in the past when they had control as well.

I was glad to see some recent state/local court cases that prevented it and hope to see a law/measure that forbids it on a nationwide basis (though I'm not holding my breath).

[Duchess]

Gerrymandering is one of the biggest problems when it comes to election results which reflect the will of the people. 

I've only recently started paying any real attention to it. I take the time to listen & to read and it's friggin' outrageous the way districts can be and have been redistricted. That bullshit needs to be fixed, like yesterday. Jeez.

[Duchess]

All I want is fairness goddamnit. Fairness. For everyone.

[Duchess]

I just read that a black majority county in Georgia intends to close 7 of 9 polling locations. I view this kind of thing as voter suppression.  

There has been a victory for voting rights. Those polling locations will not be closed due to the public outcry. ThankYouVeryMuch

[HairOfTheDog]

That's really good news for equal voting rights and for the people in that Georgia district.

I think it will also be good news if Stacey Abrams wins the Georgia governorship in November. I really like her style and message. She's very smart and positive.

While she's pissed off a number of fellow progressives by compromising and voting for Republican-backed initiatives during her time in the state legislature, the DNC and Democrat elected officials appear to be a 100% behind her now.

She'll be running against Republican Brian Kemp who's been Georgia's Sec of State since 2010. He's running under a Trump umbrella and has adopted President Trump's lingo and stances on immigration and gun rights.

It will be a very interesting election between two qualified but very different candidates, no doubt.

[Fry Guy]

Voter fraud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCldQRaPXwo

[HairOfTheDog]

Gerrymandering is one of the biggest problems when it comes to election results which reflect the will of the people. 

I've only recently started paying any real attention to it. I take the time to listen & to read and it's friggin' outrageous the way districts can be and have been redistricted. That bullshit needs to be fixed, like yesterday. Jeez.

Some progress is being made in terms of legally addressing gerrymandering, it seems.

But, will the Supreme Court do what's right (in my view, at least) and rule it unconstitutional?  I doubt it, but hope so.

Snip:
A panel of three federal judges again declared North Carolina’s congressional district map to be unconstitutional, ruling on Monday that it was gerrymandered to unfairly favor Republican candidates.

The decision, which may have significant implications for control of Congress after the midterm elections, is likely to be appealed to the United States Supreme Court, which for the moment is evenly split on ideological lines without a ninth justice to tip the balance.

Though North Carolina’s voters tend to divide about evenly between the two parties, Republicans currently hold 10 of the state’s 13 House seats. A redrawn district map may put more of the seats within Democrats’ reach.

The ruling sets up a delicate tactical question for the Supreme Court, which has never ruled a partisan gerrymander to be unconstitutional, passing up three separate opportunities to do so in its last term. With the retirement of Justice Anthony M. Kennedy at the end of July, the court is now divided between four conservatives who have expressed skepticism about the court’s ability to tinker with political maps, and four more liberal justices who have argued that it has that ability.  A 4-to-4 vote would leave the lower court’s ruling intact.

The swing vote on the issue would probably be Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., whom many voting-rights advocates see as the only prospect on the court — and a slim one, at that — for a fifth vote to outlaw partisan gerrymanders.

Full story:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/us/no...ule=Top%20^Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[HairOfTheDog]

I just read that a black majority county in Georgia intends to close 7 of 9 polling locations. I view this kind of thing as voter suppression.  

There has been a victory for voting rights. Those polling locations will not be closed due to the public outcry. ThankYouVeryMuch

I'm happy that the Democrat leadership isn't asleep at the wheel ahead of the 2018 midterms.

The GOP's unconstitutional and blatant attempts to repress African American and Native American votes in Georgia and North Dakota is really pissing me off.

Brian Kemp, the Georgia Sec of State who is currently running against Stacey Abrams for governor, is one shady mofo, in my opinion.  

I hope the asshole is finally stopped in his tracks by the multiple lawsuits aimed at prohibiting him from supressing votes before November 6^th.  
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/politics/.../index.htm  
https://www.theroot.com/the-wizard-of-vo...1829696413 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...ty-voters/

[HairOfTheDog]

Every state should have a goal of making it as easy as possible for all eligible citizens to cast their votes.

Kemp, in his current position, is in charge of voter policies.

At the same time, he's running for governor and attempting to make it unreasonably difficult for over 50,000 citizens to vote (2/3 of whom are African American or Hispanic) in the gubernatorial race where he's tied in the polls with his Democratic challenger.

If a party or candidate can't appeal sufficiently enough to a diverse citizenry to secure a projected win, it's on them to adjust their platforms to better reflect the priorities of the people they seek to represent. Cheating is easier and sleazier, but should not stand.

I hope Kemp is called to the carpet in court and also loses his gubernatorial bid.

Go Stacey! I really like her style and message.

[Maggot]

What the heck is so hard about voting? Show an I.D. vote and go the fuck home and eat jalapeno poppers. WTF. 

[Fry Guy]

When we go to vote here, we show up with our ID show it, they find us, check us off and give us voting ballots. We go to a small makeshift cardboard booth with an attached pencil and vote as we feel and then drop the ballots in the corresponding ballot boxes and we are out of there. Nothing too difficult indeed

[HairOfTheDog]

What the heck is so hard about voting? Show an I.D. vote and go the fuck home and eat jalapeno poppers. WTF. 

Exactly.  It should be possible for all American citizens to do so.  But, it's not.  That's the problem we're discussing.

The GOP tried to close down voting stations in predominantly African American communities in Georgia.  Fortunately, it was taken to court and the GOP lost.  So, those Georgian citizens won't have to travel long distances just to cast their votes.

But, closing down voting stations is not the only tactic in the book of voter suppression dirty tricks. Read the links about what Kemp is doing to 50,000 Georgia citizens if you really want to understand.

Kemp is also the only state supervisor of voting processes who refused federal/DHS assistance in analyzing the state's voting systems for hacking potential in 2016.  Later, it was proven that the Georgia electronic voter systems had in fact been a target of attempted hacking by Russians.

I remember you saying that paper ballots should be required to back up electronic votes, as a security/audit measure against hacking.  I agreed with you.  Kemp does not.

Georgia is the most populous of just 14 states that use electronic-only voting machines without a paper trail voters can verify for themselves. Cybersecurity experts agree this leaves elections more exposed to potential hacking and technical problems.

[Fry Guy]

What the heck is so hard about voting? Show an I.D. vote and go the fuck home and eat jalapeno poppers. WTF. 

Exactly.  It should be possible for all American citizens to do so.  But, it's not.  That's the problem we're discussing.

The GOP tried to close down voting stations in predominantly African American communities in Georgia.  Fortunately, it was taken to court and the GOP lost.  So, those Georgian citizens won't have to travel long distances just to cast their votes.

But, closing down voting stations is not the only tactic in the book of voter suppression dirty tricks. Read the links about what Kemp is doing to 50,000 Georgia citizens if you really want to understand.

Kemp is also the only state supervisor of voting processes who refused federal/DHS assistance in analyzing the state's voting systems for hacking potential in 2016.  Later, it was proven that the Georgia electronic voter systems had in fact been a target of attempted hacking by Russians.

I remember you saying that paper ballots should be required to back up electronic votes, as a security/audit measure against hacking.  I agreed with you.  Kemp does not.

Georgia is the most populous of just 14 states that use electronic-only voting machines without a paper trail voters can verify for themselves. Cybersecurity experts agree this leaves elections more exposed to potential hacking and technical problems.

This may be true but A) Democrats Gerrymander too B) Is any member of the board related to the Smartmatic voting machines connected to any of George Soros' organisations? C) What about Democrats giving illegal aliens drivers licences and this ability to vote in a country they have no constitutional right to vote in? AND d) what about the very well documented voter fraud uncovered by investigations BY the Democrats.

I think it is right to point out bad things Republicans do BECAUSE neither side should do bad things, but to have partisan outrage is dishonest.

[HairOfTheDog]

You often accuse people of being dishonest or misleading when they present facts and/or opinions which don't fully conform to your beliefs, outrage or not. I don't take it seriously and don't care why you do it.

As to your other points:

A) Yeah, I noted that Democrats gerrymandered when they had the opportunity just a few posts upthread.

B) The fact that Malloch-Brown (chairman of Smartmatic) is a member of the global board of Soros’ Open Society Foundations is irrelevant to this discussion. Malloch-Brown belongs to a number of non-profit boards addressing global issues from poverty reduction to conflict resolution, as is his right.

Soros, billionaire liberal bogeyman to the far right, has no ownership or control in Smartmatic and Smartmatic machines aren't used in U.S. elections anyway. That conspiracy theory is fully debunked. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter...machine-r/

C) Illegal/undocumented immigrants can not vote just because they have a driver's license. Despite many wide ranging investigations over the decades, including a Trump-ordered one conducted only by Republicans in 2017, there has never been evidence of non-citizens casting votes aside from a handful who've been prosecuted. The court hasn't been lenient even when it was done out of ignorance, the penalties are stiff.

D) I don't know what you're talking about.

Obviously neither side should do bad things. Bad things are bad. And, I already stated, more than once, my belief that no eligible citizens should be restricted from voting by anyone (regardless of political affiliation).

[Rootilda]

Rachel Maddow had an excellent segment on this very subject.  I appreciate the way she delves into our history to show how we got here.

[Fry Guy]

You often accuse people of being dishonest or misleading when they present facts and/or opinions which don't fully conform to your beliefs, outrage or not. I don't take it seriously and don't care why you do it.

As to your other points:

A) Yeah, I noted that Democrats gerrymandered when they had the opportunity just a few posts upthread.

B) The fact that Malloch-Brown (chairman of Smartmatic) is a member of the global board of Soros’ Open Society Foundations is irrelevant to this discussion. Malloch-Brown belongs to a number of non-profit boards addressing global issues from poverty reduction to conflict resolution, as is his right.

Soros, billionaire liberal bogeyman to the far right, has no ownership or control in Smartmatic and Smartmatic machines aren't used in U.S. elections anyway. That conspiracy theory is fully debunked. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter...machine-r/

C) Illegal/undocumented immigrants can not vote just because they have a driver's license. Despite many wide ranging investigations over the decades, including a Trump-ordered one conducted only by Republicans in 2017, there has never been evidence of non-citizens casting votes aside from a handful who've been prosecuted. The court hasn't been lenient even when it was done out of ignorance, the penalties are stiff.

D) I don't know what you're talking about.

Obviously neither side should do bad things. Bad things are bad. And, I already stated, more than once, my belief that no eligible citizens should be restricted from voting by anyone (regardless of political affiliation).

In no particular order -

C) https://www.apnews.com/f5f245dbff474013a5f4bda673818138

A) Yup

D) https://www.projectveritas.com/minnesota-voter-fraud/
https://www.projectveritas.com/dead-peop...e-ballots/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDTcxIqqM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGcfRbtgVak

B) Oh Politifact, that impartial take it to the bank font of all knowledge that is owned by a Liberal News outlet? that impartial Politifact? Did you somehow imagine that citing them meant something? No?

[Duchess]

I like being argumentative about politics but in general I don't care what trump supporters think, feel, or say. I've pretty much rendered all their opinions null & void. The walking dead have eaten their brains.

[HairOfTheDog]

To close this out with FryGuy:

1.   Our California DMV sucks big time and they did indeed upgrade recently, causing lots of double entries, site crashes, and some errors.  

Some non-citizens were reportedly inadvertently registered after getting/renewing a license and a bunch of citizens' registrations were screwed up. That's true.

Those registrations were canceled before early voting began.
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2. Politifact has rated plenty of claims by Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and many other Democrats and Liberals as false.  And, it's rated plenty of claims by Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Mike Pence and other Republicans and Conservatives as true.  

The ratings are based on facts, not on a liberal leaning.  

Since you don't trust the Politifact debunking of the Soro's voter booth conspiracy theory, you won't believe other sources verifying that it's false, so I won't post the links.
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3.  If you care, read up on all the editing Jame O'Keefe of Project Veritas has been busted out for in his undercover string videos to produce a false result which supports his anti-liberal views/agenda.  I don't trust the source because it's been proven not credible too many times.

The video of Alan Schulkin is the read deal though.  Schulkin really did say that as he gets older and more conservative he wants voter ID laws in New York.  He also answered the undercover sting operative's questions indicating he believed their was voter fraud in poor minority communities.  

He later said that he should  have said "potential fraud" as he had no evidence of any, was mostly trying to placate the woman who kept badgering him, and he still wants a voter ID law.

[HairOfTheDog]

Anyway, none of what you've posted is evidence of fraudulent votes cast.

I've had this discussion so many times over the years here and posted the reports of official voter integrity research.

I won't do that again because it's clear you will not believe the findings and you're convinced that voting by illegal aliens is a problem in the U.S.