A Debate on Feminism

[Fry Guy]

Feminism preaches an ideology that pathologises men, rewrites history and disempowers women, whilst purporting to be about equality.

And vilifies women who disagree; women whos goal in life is to be home maker, wife and mother. And God forbid they disagree with abortion; those heretics need to be burned at the stake.

Totally agree.
My daughter hates Feminists.
She sees in her own life, the parental support was all from her Father. She saw who the power was vested in with respect to courts and access and such growing up.
She also came to realise that there is no percentage or strength in playing the oppressed victimised minority. She is not unequal to boys. She has agency. She is not adrift in a sea of Patriarchy with tempests of toxic masculinity.
She is just a human like billions of fellow travellers, trying to get by and get what they can out of life, and owning her choices (good or bad) and with support and encouragement of a loving Dad.
Feminism be damned

[Duchess]

My daughter hates Feminists.

Mmm, 'K.

Feminism defined is the belief that women & men should have equal rights and opportunities.

[Fry Guy]

My daughter hates Feminists.

Mmm, 'K.

Feminism defined is the belief that women & men should have equal rights and opportunities.

Except there is no one who GENUINELY believes that.

An Egalitarian is someone who believes in equal rights for men and women but an Egalitarian is not a Feminist.
What is the difference between the two then?
What is Patriarchy and Toxic Masculinity and how does one "measure" these things?
Does Feminism or Egalitarianism view women as under the thrall of a a Patriarchy that oppresses them as a minority?
Does Feminism empower and give agency to women or does it provide a crutch to lean on?
Does Feminism seek to continue to point at the top 1% of men and apply their success as akin to all men's success over all women?
Does Feminism point to all male/female courting/romance/marriage and the bonds of family as a servant-master relationship?

If Feminism was divorced of all this putrid dogma and ideological nonsense, it still would not be "Feminism defined is the belief that women & men should have equal rights and opportunities."

Mmmm 'K, Duchess,

[Duchess]

I think you misunderstand my comment. Facts aren't open to debate, facts are facts. I did nothing more than post the definition of feminism.

[Maggot]

I would prefer to attack m&minism. why are the green ones so good?

[Fry Guy]

I think you misunderstand my comment. Facts aren't open to debate, facts are facts. I did nothing more than post the definition of feminism.

It is a poor definition.

It is like saying Socialism is a form of government that believes the nation's wealth should be shared equally by its citizens

Does Socialism for all its definition really ever work along these line? Is there one government in which Socialism works? We know from the time we read Animal Farm when we are 12 that it doesn't work and why.

Same with Feminism because someone has coined a definition it does not magically make it fact. No one over the age of 10 subscribes to such magic thinking.

[Duchess]

It's a simple fucking definition, you crotchety bastard. Is there anything on the face of God's green earth you won't become argumentative about or find fault with? Holy shit. Lighten up. Have a drink. Smoke a joint. Get laid. Do something to put a smile on your face.

[MirahM]

gkgjld;ak

What I hear Fry Guy saying is that he disagrees with the definition of feminism. I think he is saying that though people who are feminists say they are for equal rights of the sexes-that it isn't really true-it is not actually even.
So a better word if one is actually for equality would be  egalatarian.

I haven't had the energy to weed through all of the posts in the thread. But the one thing that keeps coming to my mind and remains unanswered is the benefit that the feminism movement had for voting rights. If I understand correctly it did not properly represent people of color at that time so it was equal representation for all, but it was a step.

Fry Guy

Totally agree.
My daughter hates Feminists.
She sees in her own life, the parental support was all from her Father. She saw who the power was vested in with respect to courts and access and such growing up.
She also came to realise that there is no percentage or strength in playing the oppressed victimised minority. She is not unequal to boys. She has agency. She is not adrift in a sea of Patriarchy with tempests of toxic masculinity.
She is just a human like billions of fellow travellers, trying to get by and get what they can out of life, and owning her choices (good or bad) and with support and encouragement of a loving Dad.
Feminism be damned

Your daughter is lucky. Not everyone has had that opportunity. You could say she is growing up in an era where there are better opportunities, or maybe you have just taught her that so it would not have mattered what era she grew up in.
But at one time women did not have choices of what they were going to do out of highschool-usually it was get married and raise kids and stay at home.
Women have had to fight to have their place in the workplace, to have their voice heard. If it is called feminism then I don't care. Fry Guy not agreeing with the definition doesn't make it so, just because you believe women don't want equal rights for everyone-look at what they have had to fight against, but you wont' see that.

And OMG I was totally man-splaining in the first part of my post!

[Fry Guy]

It's a simple fucking definition, you crotchety bastard. Is there anything on the face of God's green earth you won't become argumentative about or find fault with? Holy shit. Lighten up. Have a drink. Smoke a joint. Get laid. Do something to put a smile on your face.

You made me laugh there. Not in a nasty way, I genuinely found it funny. I AM crotchety and argumentative. So well done.

gkgjld;ak

What I hear Fry Guy saying is that he disagrees with the definition of feminism. I think he is saying that though people who are feminists say they are for equal rights of the sexes-that it isn't really true-it is not actually even.
So a better word if one is actually for equality would be  egalatarian.

I haven't had the energy to weed through all of the posts in the thread. But the one thing that keeps coming to my mind and remains unanswered is the benefit that the feminism movement had for voting rights. If I understand correctly it did not properly represent people of color at that time so it was equal representation for all, but it was a step.

Fry Guy

Totally agree.
My daughter hates Feminists.
She sees in her own life, the parental support was all from her Father. She saw who the power was vested in with respect to courts and access and such growing up.
She also came to realise that there is no percentage or strength in playing the oppressed victimised minority. She is not unequal to boys. She has agency. She is not adrift in a sea of Patriarchy with tempests of toxic masculinity.
She is just a human like billions of fellow travellers, trying to get by and get what they can out of life, and owning her choices (good or bad) and with support and encouragement of a loving Dad.
Feminism be damned

Your daughter is lucky. Not everyone has had that opportunity. You could say she is growing up in an era where there are better opportunities, or maybe you have just taught her that so it would not have mattered what era she grew up in.
But at one time women did not have choices of what they were going to do out of highschool-usually it was get married and raise kids and stay at home.
Women have had to fight to have their place in the workplace, to have their voice heard. If it is called feminism then I don't care. Fry Guy not agreeing with the definition doesn't make it so, just because you believe women don't want equal rights for everyone-look at what they have had to fight against, but you wont' see that.

And OMG I was totally man-splaining in the first part of my post!

The opportunities and choices for women AND men are different to what they were in years gone past because of modernity.
Feminists are just dishonest enough to propagate the idea that were it not for their support of women that there would be no equality of opportunity.

It is dishonest and fucking stupid but it IS an ideology.

Were my daughter born 200 years ago, she would likely be married and perhaps a mother. I would likely have died by now. Hell my gall bladder becoming septic 7 years ago would have killed me as I would not have had the means to remove it. BUT I likely would have done hard physical work to support MY family of four. Moreover my family of 4 would likely have become a family of 7 and a couple of them would have died in childbirth. In fact come to think of my ex-wife's health, she probably would have died too, likely in childbirth or in one of the nasty diseases still floating around.

So I would have perhaps been at about the end of my physical working life and hopeful that my daughter and one or two of the others could look after me into old age.

Would I be concerned about the partner my daughter had chosen? Perhaps. I would imagine that I would not have had the time to form as close relationship with (assuming I was still alive). I would have spent most of my waking hours working and she would have been one of 7 and of which 2 or 3 have died. Now she is no longer a financial concern and some other guy now has complete financial responsibility for her well-being.

In fact I would be all broken down and looking to see the younger children make their way so that they can look after me.

Life was shit 200 years ago.

[Duchess]

Fuckin' aye. It sounds depressing as hell.

[BigMark]

Men are hungry horny and thirsty if all those needs are being met life is wonderful no matter when.

[Duchess]

Noted!

[BigMark]

By the way it's kinda confusing because to a caveman feminism means becoming more feminine, not wearing boots, a wallet chain and a trucker hat while letting your pits go feral.

[Duchess]

I'm guilty of 2 of those.

[BigMark]

* steel toe

[Duchess]

Whew. That was close.

[BigMark]

Do you like being manhandled on occasion?

[Duchess]

I will knock you da hell out.

[MirahM]

Watch "I'm not an Easy Guy" on Netflix. It is funny!

[Maggot]

This toxic femininity is annoying.