Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and five other terrorists would be tried in a civilian court

[Luke Warmwater]

As long as they end paying the full price who cares what kind of court they end up at?

Probably because the trials will turn out like OJ's did...

[Cynical Ninja]

I don't think any of these guys are going to find anybody in the jury sympathetic to their cause somehow.

[SyberBitch]

I'm on the fence as to deciding if water-boarding is actually torture too.

Seriously? Water boarding, as I'm sure you know, involves nearly drowning a person, repeatedly. I'm assuming that your statement about our own Special Forces being submitted to torture as part of their training is fact. It seems logical enough. However, surely you would recognize a difference between torture that you VOLUNTEER for and torture that someone is doing to you against your will, right?

If water boarding isn't really 'torture', then why is it so damned effective at getting information from people? Of course, information acquired under 'torture' conditions, can never really be trusted, since most people will eventually say anything to get the torture to stop. Simple sleep deprivation is 'torture' when prolonged.

Do I think it's ok to torture people who are DESERVING of it?? Yes. But, I think the evidence against the person has to be damned overwhelming to justify it.

I have seen the "torture" demonstrated on TV. This is why I'm on the fence about it. Did you know they don't actually get water in their face? Granted it's not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination but bribing them with specially prepared meals, games, books and other enjoyable thngs is NOT my idea of interrogation either.

I agree that trying to 'bribe' people would not be effective for... pretty much anything. Again, it should depend on the circumstances. If you're dealing with people who are definitely guilty of terrorist acts, or say... being a mass murderer or something, I can understand the use of torture. If it's people who are not DEFINITELY guilty, I don't think it's ever called for. A person should never be tortured, whether they're an American Citizen or not, unless they themselves have been guilty of torturing other people (I consider 'terrorism' a form of torture).

If you do not believe that 'Water-Boarding' is torture, read this: http://science.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding.htm

(from the article) "CIA members who've undergone water boarding as part of their training have lasted an average of 14 seconds before begging to be released. The Navy SEALs once used the technique in their counter-interrogation training, but they stopped because the trainees could not survive it without breaking, which was bad for morale."

I think you are confusing this with the Abu Grahib (sp?) bullshit. Guantanamo Bay has been under close scrutiny and the public eye from the start.

You're right. I was.

[IMaDick]

I don't think any of these guys are going to find anybody in the jury sympathetic to their cause somehow.

all it takes is one to hang the jury.

they found an attorney ,I have to think that he will find at least one idiot to put on the jury.

[The Antagonist]

OP, I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but the defendants and the prosecution have a hand in picking the jury. So it is very feasible that they can find a sympathetic one or two. It's also not entirely out of the question that someone can come in with an agenda to set this guy free, cause a retrial etc by posing as someone who is fair minded and throw a monkey-wrench into the whole thing when it comes time to deliberate. That's a slim possibility but a possibility none the less.

[IMaDick]

OP, I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but the defendants and the prosecution have a hand in picking the jury. So it is very feasible that they can find a sympathetic one or two. It's also not entirely out of the question that someone can come in with an agenda to set this guy free, cause a retrial etc by posing as someone who is fair minded and throw a monkey-wrench into the whole thing when it comes time to deliberate. That's a slim possibility but a possibility none the less.

Here is another small but significant piece of information I find intriguing and somewhat uncomfortable personally.

our laws state explicitly that the jury shall be made up of your peers.

do we have any peers for these men in america besides others of the islamic faith?

[The Antagonist]

I think the "of your peers" simply means someone who is not appointed by a government official, works for the court system etc... a 'regular citizen' and not exactly a "peer" in the true sense of the word. If that were the case then any teenager on trial for whatever crime would have other teenagers on the jury deciding his faith. That would not work out well for the court system!

[IMaDick]

peers; legal; a person of the same legal status: a jury of one's peers.

and then there are the challenges for preemptory challenges by the prosecution based on exclusion .

case law is ample and diverse .

a brief overview .

Who sits on the jury, of course, can have a great impact on the outcome of a trial. Yet until very recently, the pool of potential jurors called did not reflect the diversity of their communities, and prospective jurors were dismissed from jury service because of their race, gender, class, or even religion. Today the federal courts and most state courts have adopted outreach strategies to increase the total number of prospective jurors and to create jury pools which reflect more accurately their communities. The U.S. Supreme Court and various state courts also have made it harder for prospective jurors to be dropped simply because of a group to which they belong.

[SyberBitch]

Yeah, people try to play the 'of their peers' card all the time. It rarely works.

As Ant said, it's generally interpreted to simply mean 'other ordinary people'. Most of the exclusions of jury members, is because of outright prejudices and such against the defendant.

[IMaDick]

These people have no peers in this country except for those who share their faith or nationality.

they were not born here, they have no ties, they have no family(that we know of ) I'm afraid that white people, black people and other ethnic groups who live here and in new york who may have known those killed or were otherwise were affected by ⁹⁄₁₁ will give the defense great lea-way in the jury selection process.

but I won't belabor the subject, we can just wait and see.

[SyberBitch]

These people have no peers in this country except for those who share their faith or nationality.

they were not born here, they have no ties, they have no family(that we know of ) I'm afraid that white people, black people and other ethnic groups who live here and in new york who may have known those killed or were otherwise were affected by ⁹⁄₁₁ will give the defense great lea-way in the jury selection process.

but I won't belabor the subject, we can just wait and see.

Honestly, there's no way they could have a 'jury' trial, since it would be impossible to find an unbiased jury.

[The Antagonist]

These people have no peers in this country except for those who share their faith or nationality.

they were not born here, they have no ties, they have no family(that we know of ) I'm afraid that white people, black people and other ethnic groups who live here and in new york who may have known those killed or were otherwise were affected by ⁹⁄₁₁ will give the defense great lea-way in the jury selection process.

but I won't belabor the subject, we can just wait and see.

Honestly, there's no way they could have a 'jury' trial, since it would be impossible to find an unbiased jury.

Well they are most certainly going to have one.

They were picked up on a battlefield in a foreign land and all of a sudden they deserve American justice and liberties.

Bullshit. It's all bullshit.

I'm with Dick, he should have been shot on site, no questions asked. Soldier feared his life - period.

These terrorists cry torture because they KNOW the gutless far left will fall for the bullshit story. They play us and laugh because they get their way.

Three Navy Seals are going under trial for giving the prick arrested for the murder of those American workers in Fallujah for giving him a fat and bloody lip. Oh boo-fucking-hoo! He should have been pistol whipped at the very least and then brought in with the excuse he put up a fight.

Now our guys are in MORE shit than this fuck for beating, burning alive and hanging Americans from a bridge in Fallujah for a fat lip.

Maybe we should have this cocksucker brought to NY for an American civil trial too?

[SyberBitch]

These people have no peers in this country except for those who share their faith or nationality.

they were not born here, they have no ties, they have no family(that we know of ) I'm afraid that white people, black people and other ethnic groups who live here and in new york who may have known those killed or were otherwise were affected by ⁹⁄₁₁ will give the defense great lea-way in the jury selection process.

but I won't belabor the subject, we can just wait and see.

Honestly, there's no way they could have a 'jury' trial, since it would be impossible to find an unbiased jury.

Well they are most certainly going to have one.

They were picked up on a battlefield in a foreign land and all of a sudden they deserve American justice and liberties.

Bullshit. It's all bullshit.

I'm with Dick, he should have been shot on site, no questions asked. Soldier feared his life - period.

These terrorists cry torture because they KNOW the gutless far left will fall for the bullshit story. They play us and laugh because they get their way.

Three Navy Seals are going under trial for giving the prick arrested for the murder of those American workers in Fallujah for giving him a fat and bloody lip. Oh boo-fucking-hoo! He should have been pistol whipped at the very least and then brought in with the excuse he put up a fight.

Now our guys are in MORE shit than this fuck for beating, burning alive and hanging Americans from a bridge in Fallujah for a fat lip.

Maybe we should have this cocksucker brought to NY for an American civil trial too?

I'm pretty far to the left and even I think that's crazy.