Wannabe TV Reality Stars Crash Obama Dinner

[The Antagonist]

Nice dodge for not providing some backup to your lame ass comment regarding my "bullshit".

If you don't want to bother with the politics why even interject at all?

[Maggot]

Any new tax placed on small business will be added to a customers bill on the backend..........no business will carry any additional load. This is the way it will be, prices on everything will go up and your paycheck will either stay the same or go lower with the additional insurance burden. Good luck with that!

[Cynical Ninja]

If you don't want to bother with the politics why even interject at all?

Because you wrote it, just so you know I am going to be on every single one of your posts 24/7, dug in like an Alabama tick.

[Duchess]

I hate this shit, I really do...We are being taxed half to fuckin' death already...I know there are plenty of deserving people that need a lil' help but, there are way more that don't deserve a damn thing & I'm goddamn sick of paying for them.

[The Antagonist]

If you don't want to bother with the politics why even interject at all?

Because you wrote it, just so you know I am going to be on every single one of your posts 24/7, dug in like an Alabama tick.

OK Ginger-Stalker. Knock yourself out.
Nice to know you equate yourself to a filthy bloodsucker. A filthy bloodsucker just like our government!

I hate this shit, I really do...We are being taxed half to fuckin' death already...I know there are plenty of deserving people that need a lil' help but, there are way more that don't deserve a damn thing & I'm goddamn sick of paying for them.

This is why we must always question our elected officials and never follow blindly.

Syber, I want to add something in regard to Social Security. We are not forced to pay into that you know. It's taken out of your paycheck when you work on the books but I think there is some kind of form you can fill out that will take that out and you can pay into it voluntarily - unless they changed that since I last worked on the books.
I'm completely fucked out of mine due to my ex fucking around with our taxes when we were married. I had my farm as my income and he never had the accountant pay into our SS taxes. I found this out years after my divorce when my statements came and I questioned it. I am ineligible for disability due to this.
Social Security is supposed to be for US and not the gov't to spend but they've mismanaged that to the hilt.

[Maggot]

I hate this shit, I really do...We are being taxed half to fuckin' death already...I know there are plenty of deserving people that need a lil' help but, there are way more that don't deserve a damn thing & I'm goddamn sick of paying for them.

This years taxes will not be bad..........next years......watch out!

[The Antagonist]

You got that right Maggot!

Oh and just so you know, there are a few bombs in that bill too.... not sure exactly how this is to be worded so I'll try best I can -

There is a set of taxes that will go into effect if the bill is passed that will take out for whatever for two full years PRIOR to the date the bill will go into action. THEN more taxes added to that, and let's not forget those too will be raised when they figure out they miscalculated that shit.

[Maggot]

You got that right Maggot!

Oh and just so you know, there are a few bombs in that bill too.... not sure exactly how this is to be worded so I'll try best I can -

There is a set of taxes that will go into effect if the bill is passed that will take out for whatever for two full years PRIOR to the date the bill will go into action. THEN more taxes added to that, and let's not forget those too will be raised when they figure out they miscalculated that shit.

We are already adjusting pricing to compensate if neccesary. I believe the last I looked margins will need to go 8-15% higher depending on the outcome. If an apple cost you 80 cents this year it will probably cost you 92 cents next year.
But you should get that good warm feeling inside knowing that your anticipated generosity will help some pimp in Chicago feed his flock and get the abortions and STD shots they need to keep in business through these tough economic times.

[Duchess]

Why am I left with the impression that those who work hard, do the right thing, are responsible, productive people & have achieved the American dream are being penalized while those who have always been given a handout are the ones making out like bandits...What the fuck is wrong with that picture...Jesus

[Maggot]

Why am I left with the impression that those who work hard, do the right thing, are responsible, productive people & have achieved the American dream are being penalized while those who have always been given a handout are the ones making out like bandits...What the fuck is wrong with that picture...Jesus

Dont worry Duch the credit card companies are WAY ahead of the Gov on this one! ::lol::

[Duchess]

I don't even pay attention to what those bitches are saying these days...I don't carry a balance on anything...I read once that the average credit card holder carries an eight thousand dollar balance...I could not believe there was so many stupid people out there willing to throw their hard earned money away.

[The Antagonist]

Why am I left with the impression that those who work hard, do the right thing, are responsible, productive people & have achieved the American dream are being penalized while those who have always been given a handout are the ones making out like bandits...What the fuck is wrong with that picture...Jesus

It's called Welfare, tax evasion, working off the books, and living under the radar.
The homeowner in this country are the ones who are being raped by the "Man" daily to make up for those who are flying under the radar.

I don't even pay attention to what those bitches are saying these days...I don't carry a balance on anything...I read once that the average credit card holder carries an eight thousand dollar balance...I could not believe there was so many stupid people out there willing to throw their hard earned money away.

Careful not carrying a balance now! The credit card companies are slick fuckers - those who are paying off on time are now being given low credit scores and having the amount of their credit reduced or the APR raised a couple of points. Many have had cards cancelled on them. Keep a small balance to make them happy, like $50 to protect your credit.

[Duchess]

Are you kiddin' me ?!...I've worked my entire adult life to have an excellent credit score & now those bitches want to penalize me for that too...Holy Fuck

[The Antagonist]

Yep.

[SyberBitch]

Well Ant, I haven't finished all 2000+ pages of the bill, but I did find this interesting little tidbit.

7 SEC. 1555. FREEDOM NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL
8 HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS.
9 No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
10 health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
11 insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any
12 Federal health insurance program created under this Act
13 (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal
14 health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any
15 such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine
16 imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to
17 participate in such programs.

Thank you for actually listening Syber... I appreciate that. The usual liberal answer lately is if you lean conservative, you're called names, your lumped in with with the far right and your point of view is never even considered.

Most people are sheep regardless of their political leaning. I try not to be.

Keep reading. You showed me something in regard to businesses and corporations. This is a fine on an individual. Sometimes watching the senate and house debates on Cspan yeilds me this information.

Read the passage again, it states that no 'individual', company, business, etc... will have a penalty or fine imposed for not participating in the govt plan. Perhaps that was different in an earlier version of the bill, but if so, it appears to have changed now.

I think another problem (which you touch on in your reply) is that people are making wild declarations about the bill without ever having read it. It's a lot to read and very few people are going to take the time. I'm working my way through it. I've also done word searches on the entire document for relevant terms.

Then there's the new regulations they want to impose on women - how convenient is it that all of a sudden mammograms dont' need to be done until we are 50? Cervical cancer screenings don't need to be done every year anymore but every 2 or 3? This was JUST announced by some gov't study/regulation/suggestion, not private doctors.

Nice. I haven't seen any mention of that in the bill, but I did see a lot of proactive stuff in there about disease prevention. Weight loss, stop smoking programs, diabetes management and such. It didn't say whether those programs would be 'mandatory' or simply 'optional', but either way, I think it's a good direction to be going in. I also saw stuff about facilities being rewarded for higher ratios of healthy patients, which is also a good thing I think.

The cost of this bill is out of control and most of the shit in there is unnecessary. The "blue dog" Democrats are not happy with this bill and want to shoot it down. It's long and unecessarily complicated.

It probably is overcomplicated. I think your Medicaid idea is a good one... but that and $1 will get you a cheap cuppa. It would be nice if we (as citizens) actually had a less formal way (rather than trying to submit a full 'bill' to the House) of giving suggestions to lawmakers, when some of them actually are probably damned good ideas. However, I doubt even if the simple Medicaid reform you're talking about were adopted, it would solve most of the problems. It really is a huge mess.

This bill is actually designed to drive private health insurance out of business. Tax small businesses so they HAVE to turn to the gov't plan and eventually force the private citizen to dump their plans as they know them due to it becoming useless or too expensive through taxes.

That may or may not be true, but it doesn't seem to make sense. Why would the govt WANT to take more responsibility on itself for people's health care? The simple fact is, EVERYONE is going to need healthcare of some sort at some time. Many people will end up needing expensive care at some point. The private insurance companies are still ripping folks off big time, but I can see how a small insurance company would be wiped out pretty quickly if they had a few people with high claims. Why the govt would want to have to shell out for those care costs instead of having some private company do it, is beyond me.

I've seen, so far, a lot of tax CREDITS for business and insurance companies providing healthcare, but I haven't seen any mention of PENALTIES for those who are providing healthcare. I *have*, however, read things about how the companies (insurance) will have to guarantee at least 60-65% coverage on the medical expenses of their clients, and other new requirements which will NO DOUBT mean a lower profit margin for those companies. Whether that would put them out of business or not is unknown. It's just logical to understand that if there is going to be reform, the insurance companies who are lining their pockets (like the auto insurance I was squawking about earlier) are going to end up with smaller profit margins. Well, that's as it should be. I can certainly see why they would be complaining though.

A flat tax would be a good idea but everyone laughed at that because those with sticky fingers would have to reform.

Of course

They keep saying they are going to keep it so you can keep the coverage you have, keep your doctor that you like etc but that's impossible! How can you expect someone who's lost their job to be able to stay with the plan from that company?

I'm not sure that anyone is trying to say that people would be able to keep their coverage from a job they lost. I did see mention of requirements that people would be able to keep their coverage for a certain period of time, which I think is pretty much the way it works now.

I say scrap it, start over and get something better to brag about.

Maybe so. I'm sure that a lot of what is addressed in the bill is important (the amount I've read anyway), but it seems there is always a lot of padding in these things that could be done away with. I doubt that the optimal solution for our healthcare reform could be a simple thing, but that's a hell of a lot of pages to wade through for anyone.

[The Antagonist]

I doubt that the optimal solution for our healthcare reform could be a simple thing, but that's a hell of a lot of pages to wade through for anyone.

That right there is the problem.

Read the passage again, it states that no 'individual', company, business, etc... will have a penalty or fine imposed for not participating in the govt plan. Perhaps that was different in an earlier version of the bill, but if so, it appears to have changed now.

I think another problem (which you touch on in your reply) is that people are making wild declarations about the bill without ever having read it. It's a lot to read and very few people are going to take the time. I'm working my way through it. I've also done word searches on the entire document for relevant terms.

(Hopefully!) I said it may have changed in the Senate bill which I linked but I KNOW It was there in the House bill. I'm pretty sure it's still in the Senate bill somewhere but I'm not 100%.

That may or may not be true, but it doesn't seem to make sense. Why would the govt WANT to take more responsibility on itself for people's health care? The simple fact is, EVERYONE is going to need healthcare of some sort at some time. Many people will end up needing expensive care at some point. The private insurance companies are still ripping folks off big time, but I can see how a small insurance company would be wiped out pretty quickly if they had a few people with high claims. Why the govt would want to have to shell out for those care costs instead of having some private company do it, is beyond me.

Umm... they've been asked that a few times and have yet to give an honest answer. When have you heard of anything the gov't does making much sense lately?

Nice. I haven't seen any mention of that in the bill, but I did see a lot of proactive stuff in there about disease prevention. Weight loss, stop smoking programs, diabetes management and such. It didn't say whether those programs would be 'mandatory' or simply 'optional', but either way, I think it's a good direction to be going in. I also saw stuff about facilities being rewarded for higher ratios of healthy patients, which is also a good thing I think.

This kind of thing is a double edged knife. What if they do make things like that mandatory?
They've made mention that it could be. I don't think having good health and encouraged for it is a bad thing but having it forced upon you or having to pay higher rates if you're unhealthy is not very good either. It's a new way of 'stacking the odds' if you ask me.

[The Antagonist]

You know I just want to add that I'm sure there are plenty of good things in this bill too but the cost far outweighs it's benefits.

I just don't like the idea of the gov't taking over health care and worse, using slick little word tricks to make you think they're not doing that.

[SyberBitch]

Read the passage again, it states that no 'individual', company, business, etc... will have a penalty or fine imposed for not participating in the govt plan. Perhaps that was different in an earlier version of the bill, but if so, it appears to have changed now.

(Hopefully!) I said it may have changed in the Senate bill which I linked but I KNOW It was there in the House bill. I'm pretty sure it's still in the Senate bill somewhere but I'm not 100%.

I've done more digging and I think I found what you're talking about.

18 ‘‘CHAPTER 48—MAINTENANCE OF
19 MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE
‘‘Sec. 5000A. Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.
20 ‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ES21
SENTIAL COVERAGE.

There is a clause stating that beginning in 2013, everyone will be required to carry some sort of minimal health care coverage, whether it's through a govt program or a private provider, or else face fines.

Exemptions are given to people who are living below the poverty line, who have had a financial crisis or who have a religious exemption. The penalty appears to be about $62.50/month of not being covered (although the next paragraph says that the penalty shall not 'exceed' 300% of the amount being used - which in this case would be $187.50).

While that makes me uncomfortable, it also makes sense to a degree. It will depend a lot on the actual cost of the govt provided health care plan, whether or not it's pro-rated according to income, etc.

The fact is, if we implemented a truly govt subsidized health care system (such as what is available in the UK and Canada), people would be screaming about the huge tax increases - no doubt even larger than whatever will come along with this bill.

On one level, I believe that every adult should make their own decision on whether or not to carry health insurance. However, along with that goes the understanding that those who chose NOT to have health coverage of any type, would simply have to pay out of pocket (at the time of service no less) for any emergency care they needed. It would mean an end to people being able to walk into ER, with no money and no insurance, and be taken care of only to be 'billed' later (which of course they rarely pay). It would mean looking into the frightened, desperate eyes of a close friend or family member without coverage, and telling them 'no, I'm sorry you can't be treated for the heart attack you're having right now'. I'm not sure the trade off is worth it.

Nice. I haven't seen any mention of that in the bill, but I did see a lot of proactive stuff in there about disease prevention. Weight loss, stop smoking programs, diabetes management and such. It didn't say whether those programs would be 'mandatory' or simply 'optional', but either way, I think it's a good direction to be going in. I also saw stuff about facilities being rewarded for higher ratios of healthy patients, which is also a good thing I think.

This kind of thing is a double edged knife. What if they do make things like that mandatory?
They've made mention that it could be. I don't think having good health and encouraged for it is a bad thing but having it forced upon you or having to pay higher rates if you're unhealthy is not very good either. It's a new way of 'stacking the odds' if you ask me.

Well, it would suck for a lot of us lazy unhealthy bastards who don't want to be bothered with someone monitoring our weight or whatever... on the other hand, I can understand charging people more for unhealthy habits and lifestyles they have chosen and which will, in turn, end up costing the rest of us more for their care.

[Maggot]

Yep.

::lol::..........I quoted that. ::bigsmile::