JonBenet Ramsey case...new evidence from Burke? caution! autopsy photos

[HairOfTheDog]

20 / 20 Episode Tonight

--JonBenet Ramsey's murder will be reexamined on tonight's episode of ²⁰⁄₂₀ on ABC

--Handwriting expert Cina Wong says during the episode that it is 'highly probable' that JonBenet's ransom note was written by her mother Patsy

--In total, Wong found over 200 similarities in the writing of the ransom note and the 100 samples of Patsy's penmanship she examined

--There will also be an interview with one of the grand jury members who voted to indict John and Patsy on Friday night's episode

--The grand jury member says that he 'highly suspects' he knows who murdered JonBenet 20 years ago

--Boulder police and the district attorney recently said that they will be retesting the DNA evidence in the case

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...queen.html

[Midwest Spy]

The 9 year old brother?

My youngest boy is 9 now. So hard to believe that someone that age could kill.

It makes sense though. It had to be someone in the home (family). I always suspected mom.

Edit: just watched the Dr Phil clip. That guy is a weirdo.

[sally]

I never believed anyone outside of the family did it. They're a family of freaks and one of them did it and they covered it up. Whether it was the father, crazy pageant mom, or Mr. Smiley, one of them did it.

[blueberryhill]

I never believed anyone outside of the family did it. They're a family of freaks and one of them did it and they covered it up. Whether it was the father, crazy pageant mom, or Mr. Smiley, one of them did it.

I did.....but at the very first, I believe that Patsy had a fit over bed wetting as she was such a perfectionist.....but then I changed my mind over and over.....I lived in Colorado at the time and, if possible, saw this in news media ²⁴⁄₇ including what police chief said to this detective, and that detective....really a lot of details to consider....i read Lawrence Schiller's Book, Perfect Town, Perfect Murder, and read some interesting theories.....there was, in fact, a case of a parent waking up during night and finding a man in his daughter's bedroom. He had entered thru unlocked window, then the case of the big, brawny guy who killed himself shortly after her murder, and for some reason, I down-deep thought it was Santa Claus....very strange story...their own child was involved in similar situation and his wife wrote a story about a kidnapped girl......they eventually left Boulder, but Jon Benet had said earlier to her parents that Santa had told her he would see her later that evening (Christmas night)......he was excluded because DNA didn't match, but if it were touch DNA , that would be a moot point.....After the special outlining Dr. Spitz's (?) theory of touch DNA, I changed my mind once again and convinced myself that the brother did it.....and now I just don't know.....
I know Lou Smit was a respected detective in Colorado Springs and of course, he never thought parents did it.....I could accept an intruder theory because it does happen....they were careless about locking doors...could have snuck in house earlier when everyone was at dinner...
When I went to school in Boulder, I lived on 13^th st and this house was on 15^th St.
This house is near the college village known as the "Hill." The Ramsey house was right in middle of numerous large, old homes alongside fraternity and sorority houses........There was no real distinction between the "wealthy" area versus the "poor"student area.....Ramsey's oldest son from a previous marriage spent time in that house. Not sure if he attended CU at the time, but know he was a visitor to the house..He was checked out and was not in State at the time of Jon Benet's murder....
I now think that the touch DNA which was used in latest theory that it was possibly deposited on girl's underwear by some factory worker is perhaps valid, but how do you account for the blood on her underpants and underneath her fingernails...don't understand how that could be touch DNA so glad they are finally exploring this factor.....Note to all....wash your underwear before wearing......
I totally understand why people think Ramseys had something to do with it.....the "ransom" note was hard to believe....John finding body, removing duct tape from her mouth and carrying her upstairs, all the friends gathered there contaminating the crime scene seems so outlandish also......who would do that? I don't know......

[HairOfTheDog]

I've never been completely sold on one theory either, blueberry. And, there was so much corruption and so many personal entanglements between LE, the DA, the Ramseys, and the media in Colorado........hard to tell fact from fiction early on.

One thing I could never get past - why would the would-be kidnapper write a long-ass ransom note in the house, on Ramsey stationary, and then leave the sexually-assaulted dead girl in the basement? It doesn't make sense to me to take all that risk. I think a kidnapper would have written the note before going to the house. And, he would have taken JonBenet from the house and then sexually assaulted her.

If Burke murdered his sister, however, the ransom note and the body in the basement makes sense to me. Patsy and John wanted to protect their son (and possibly themselves, if he had a documented history of aggressive behavior). Now that we've finally seen and heard from Burke, I gotta say I find him weird as hell, in a way that I don't think can be completely attributed to the intense media coverage surrounding his sister's murder.

Anyway, I don't know if he's the killer, but I now think Burke's a stronger suspect than I had in the past. Hopefully, the new DNA testing will render definitive results that can either completely rule him out or pin him down.

[HairOfTheDog]

I just watched the CBS Documentary, 'The Case of JonBenet Ramsey' from September of this year.

It's a great piece of criminal analysis and investigative reporting; hard to find these days. It's was also a very compelling and convincing presentation; addictive watching.

I watched it OnDemand, but you can also watch it free on-line here:

Part 1: http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-of-jon...ey-part-1/

Part 2: http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-case-of-jon...ey-part-2/

[HairOfTheDog]

I never believed anyone outside of the family did it. They're a family of freaks and one of them did it and they covered it up. Whether it was the father, crazy pageant mom, or Mr. Smiley, one of them did it.

I don't believe an intruder did it either.

In the CBS documentary, the Ramsey home was re-created for re-enactment purposes; right down to the same dimensions, the food on the counter, the smears on the walls...

The criminal behaviorist and the FBI profiler used the crime scene photos from 20 years ago to re-enact and test PI Lou Smit's claim that an intruder came in through the broken basement window. Their re-enactment showed Smit's claim to be highly implausible, if not impossible.


^ Broken basement window, inside


^ Broken basement window, outside


^ Blown-up LE photo of the window taken after JonBenet's body was found

No one could have squeezed in and out of that window without disturbing the old cobwebs and debris.

Also, in the CBS documentary, for the first time, the public sees some of young Burke Ramsey's interview tapes after his sister was killed. Very weird behavior.


(note: photos now public)

[HairOfTheDog]

For reference -- the layout of the basement floor of the Ramsey home.

[blueberryhill]

Hair, I saw this documentary in September, and I agree that Burke's behavior was bizarre....there was the segment when detective is talking to him after death, and he shows him a picture of the dish of pineapple. Detective asks Burke was that is....it was creepy how he avoided saying pineapple......(his fingerprints were on dish of pineapple and JBR had contents of pineapple in her stomach...Patsy's fingerprints were on bowl, too, but she is the mom so that would be expected just as my DNA would be on all my dishes...yuck!

IMO, Burke has issues, but he is intensely protected by family. I can understand why he has never done previous interviews and no, that doesn't make him a killer...I still think, if he hit her with the flashlight (in interview, he mentions hammer), it was an accident (to him).....it is the only theory that makes sense.....Burke is suing Dr. Spitz for that TV special, however, Dr. Spitz says he was exercising his first amendment rights......

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I'm not certain Burke killed his sister, blueberry. But, he's the likeliest suspect in my book at this point.

And, in this case, I agree with Dr. Spitz (and disagree with the other expert members of the CBS panel). I think that IF Burke did do it, it was not an accident.

If it had been a reactive unintentional death blow to the head because Burke was pissed that JonBenet swiped some of his pineapple, for example, I don't think JonBenet would have been strangled after she was already brain dead, nor had an object inserted in her vagina.........nor would there have been any need for a ransom note to make it appear that an intruder had been in the house. The Ramseys could have just called police and reported the unintentional/accidental death if there was no evidence that Burke intended to hurt/kill his little sister.

We know Burke had hit JonBenet in the face with a golf club in the past. We know that his third grade teacher was called to testify before the secret Grand Jury (we don't know why, but that's an odd witness and I can guess the reason). And, we now know that the Grand Jury actually did indict Patsy and John Ramsey for 'knowingly putting their daughter's life in danger and assisting another party in covering the crime" (my paraphrase -- indictment posted upthread).

I really wonder if there was a known history of violence by Burke before his sister was killed. I also wonder if DA Hunter figured there was no point in pressing charges against John and Patsy because Burke was one month younger than 10 years old, the legal minimum age in Colorado to be able to form intent or be held criminally responsible. Maybe Hunter just figured, 'what's the point?' Especially if John and Patsy made it clear (directly or through implication) that Burke would be getting therapy.

IDK -- just speculating here.

[BigMark]

I think that patty tried to protect burke, but it wasn't that weird little fucker after all. By then it was too late and they had to keep up the charade.

[Duchess]

I don't know what to think. Would a little kid have the presence of mind to make a garrote?

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know what to think. Would a little kid have the presence of mind to make a garrote?

I don't think so. But, a parent staging a crime scene might.

[sally]

If it's true that they staged it, which I think probably is, that's sickening.

[BigMark]

They were trying to minimize the tragedy and protect the living child, he must of previously been doing some weird shit for his own parents to suspect him. Talking about being thrown for a loop when it wasn't him!

[HairOfTheDog]

Alright, Biggie, I'll bite, though I don't know why you have such a hard time just directly stating your opinions and your rationale.

Who do you think killed JonBenet?

[BigMark]

Not the family.

[Duchess]

I hope it wasn't Santa. That would make it even more grotesque than it already is.

[HairOfTheDog]

I hope it wasn't Santa. That would make it even more grotesque than it already is.

It wasn't Bill "Santa" McReynolds. But, he sure made an interesting suspect and Boulder PD was all over him at first.



^ Bill and Janet McReynolds were friends of the Ramseys. Bill, a retired professor (now dead), had dressed up as Santa for their Christmas party three years in a row and JonBenet reportedly adored him and vice versa.

After her murder, one of JonBenet's friend's mothers said that JonBenet had mentioned that Santa would be paying her a secret visit after Christmas (she was killed on the 26^th). But, the Ramseys were going for a second Christmas out of town, so she could have simply been talking about that.

Anyway, the reason the cops, the tabloids and case followers latched onto Bill McReynolds was because of some coincidences that turned out to be irrelevant to JonBenet's death, and both Bill and Janet were cleared of all suspicion.

Their own 9-year-old daughter had been kidnapped and forced to watch one of her friends be sexually molested 22 years earlier, also on the 26^th of December.

If that wasn't weird enough.......Janet McReynolds had written an award-winning play about a girl who was sexually abused and tortured in a basement. However, her play was based on the true story of Sylvia Likens (very sad case) which was shocking and made big headlines in the 60s.

[Midwest Spy]

How were the McReynolds cleared?

They seem like intense weirdos who could've pulled this off.

Most likely had a key to the home as well.