Posts: 248
Threads: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
Did Lisa's parents know about Johnny's criminal past? I know if I had a 20 year old daughter, no "boyfriend" would be living in my home, especially if he'd done time in prison.
And why was Johnny living there anyway? Why not with his own parents? It doesn't sound like there were problems between him and his parents, considering their (extremely high) level of concern regarding his welfare. Curious.
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
Hi RJX, welcome to Mock ~~
i think they MUST have known his background. he was on probation and supposedly cleaning up his act.
maybe her parents felt she would see him anyway, so they may as well keep an eye on him. i don't know. maybe they felt he was young and deserved a second chance.
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 04:32 PM)Unknown Wrote: If Johnny's dad says he went to give him CPR and he was cold to the touch it may seem that he may have been dead before 11:00 if they found them at 4.
John Clarke broke into the Straubs' home and tore the bags off the victims' heads so he could give them CPR. As he did, he discovered that their faces were already cold.
fact: johnny picked lisa up at work at 11:00pm
they likely felt colder than they actually were because john clarke had just been outside in the cold. i would be more likely to potentially trust such a conclusion based on the internal temperature recorded by the ME that morning. they can likely pinpoint the actual time of death to within about a 30-60 minute span, based on phone calls, assorted police visits, and internal body temperature. it is likely that time was between midnight and 1am.
-pink
Posts: 70
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 19
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
"who are you""what are you doing here"( if u know the person u would say what are u doing here ) if u didnt know the person it would be "what do u want?"
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 04:57 PM)jcat Wrote: "who are you""what are you doing here"( if u know the person u would say what are u doing here ) if u didnt know the person it would be "what do u want?"
my understanding is that on 911 call #1, the mother did say "what do you want?" was one of the questions johnny asked (this is secondhand info coming from mom).
when tiffany recounted for the 911 operator on call #2 (firsthand info), the only thing she states johnny said was specifically "who are you?" she did not mention either "what do you want?" or "what are you doing here?" the only thing tiffany mentions was johnny yelling "who are you?"
jcat, i know you desperately want to believe that tiffany is involved, however i truly believe her only direct involvement with what happened was having the bad luck to actually have been on the phone with johnny when he originally encountered his killers. killers that he yelled (who are you?" to, based on tiffany's firsthand account to the 911 operator.
-pink
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
Pinky, you are basing that on Tiffany being TRUTHFUL. how do we know she was?
Posts: 248
Threads: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 04:41 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Hi RJX, welcome to Mock ~~
i think they MUST have known his background. he was on probation and supposedly cleaning up his act.
maybe her parents felt she would see him anyway, so they may as well keep an eye on him. i don't know. maybe they felt he was young and deserved a second chance.
I got no problem with "young and deserved a second chance". But I would think, as a parent, I wouldn't be so charitable with my daughter's "virtue", know what I mean? He can go "be young" and have his "deserved second chance" without me OK'ing him banging my daughter under my own roof. That's the part I just don't understand. I know some people are like "well, they're going to do it anyway, so it may as well be under my roof so I can monitor it". Nuh-uh. Right here's a good example of why that's some fucked-up thinking.
I want to know more. I want to know just how exactly Johnny living there came to be. I'm not expecting anyone here to have these answers, I'm just saying that knowing this would help me put the whole thing in perspective.
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
RJX i know exactly what you mean. i only raised 3 sons, but i never would have been comfortable with an arrangement like that. old-fashioned i guess. 
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 05:07 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Pinky, you are basing that on Tiffany being TRUTHFUL. how do we know she was?
my own judgment based on listening to her tone of voice and what she said on 911 call #2.
you're more than welcome to listen to the full call yourself and form your own personal judgment, link posted previously.
ymmv 
-pink
Posts: 19
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
this wasnt random! it just all this is crazy!! maybe it was just bad luck but is just to many things dont add up and doesnt help that the 911 operator sucked at her job.
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
Pinky, of course i have listened to the 911 calls. more than once.
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 05:15 PM)jcat Wrote: this wasnt random! it just all this is crazy!! maybe it was just bad luck but is just to many things dont add up and doesnt help that the 911 operator sucked at her job.
I've never once thought this was random.
You might consult my previous posts in this thread for my theory of why this happened.
-pink
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 05:18 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Pinky, of course i have listened to the 911 calls. more than once.
sorta like porn for you, eh?
what's your opinion as to how tiffany sounded at the end of call #2? sounded perfectly uninvolved to me, and likely a little high. my $.02.
-pink
Posts: 1,867
Threads: 33
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 04:34 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Did Lisa's parents know about Johnny's criminal past? I know if I had a 20 year old daughter, no "boyfriend" would be living in my home, especially if he'd done time in prison.
And why was Johnny living there anyway? Why not with his own parents? It doesn't sound like there were problems between him and his parents, considering their (extremely high) level of concern regarding his welfare. Curious.
I was thinking about that. Very nice, upscale home, beautiful daughter who people at work liked, ex con boyfriend living under their roof. I'm not so sure. In one of the 911 tapes, Johnny's mother alternately said he lived there and then she said he was house sitting. Which is it? The mother is a strange one because she says conflicting things (like she saw him in the basement and then her cousin saw him through the blinds). Who gets information like that wrong?!
Some random thoughts ....
Garden variety dirtbag thugs usually kill with guns. If they come to a house where they know people will be, with the intent to rob, shooting the occupants would seem like the usual m.o. for criminals like that.
Johhny did time for armed robbery. Seems his circle of friends aren't gun shy.
Johnny's mother accused Tiffany of setting Johnny up. She may be right. Could Tiffany and Mr Z have tipped off some of their sleazy friends about an easy target they thought might have drugs and money in the (upscale) house? If so, maybe Tiffany came sniffing around, later, to see what came down, not expecting murder. Wild speculation, here.
The hands on duct taping and bagging people's heads requires a lot of effort and "feels" more malevolent than shooting someone in a robbery. I lean toward Pink's thoughts about older perps. I also get LC saying it feels personal. LC's and Pink's theories are not mutually exclusive. "Professional hit" sounds too impersonal (and not likely with this manner of killing) but these perps have probably killed before. Could they have been other ex cons, from Johhny's social circle, who had a vendetta?
Was there any talk of Lisa being sexually assaulted? If not, it would seem that her killing was incidental to Johnny's - UNLESS when the cops came calling things were interupted. Maybe that's why her top was off.
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
how she (Tiffany) sounds means nothing to me. i have talked to so many stone killers who were more sincere in their lies than the original delivery of the Gettysburg Address.
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 05:25 PM)shitstorm Wrote: I was thinking about that. Very nice, upscale home
not really upscale i wouldn't say, though maybe i'm a bit highbrow. tax value of about $200k, i'd call that middle class for the area.
(02-05-2011, 05:25 PM)shitstorm Wrote: Johnny's mother alternately said he lived there and then she said he was house sitting. Which is it? The mother is a strange one because she says conflicting things (like she saw him in the basement and then her cousin saw him through the blinds). Who gets information like that wrong?!
i am not aware of where you obtained the info that she said "house sitting", i do not remember that phrase at all from the 911 calls.
mother never said basement, 911 operator said basement when she left a message for a detective to go to the scene.
(02-05-2011, 05:25 PM)shitstorm Wrote: Was there any talk of Lisa being sexually assaulted? If not, it would seem that her killing was incidental to Johnny's - UNLESS when the cops came calling things were interupted. Maybe that's why her top was off.
my thought on this was that lisa was getting ready or showering after work when it all hit the fan. i'd wager there will be no evidence of any sexual assault found on lisa.
i've thought from the start that these killings were a signal saying loud and clear:
"johnny fucked us. if you fuck us, this is what happens to you and the ones you love. don't fuck us."
professional hit does not imply a hired hand. it implies a hit carried out by someone in the business of carrying out such hits, likely by a member of the same organization led by the person making above statement to everyone else within earshot of the situation.
-pink
Posts: 26,748
Threads: 1,379
Joined: Jun 2008
Jcat, DCTim, Shitstorm, i am making you members now, and thank you for your contributions. if you'd like to do an intro thread, that would be great, so other members can say hello. (some are mean though  )
post an intro here: http://mockforums.net/forum-9.html
Posts: 248
Threads: 3
Joined: Feb 2011
I also wonder if the killer(s) left the scale/baggies/etc there on purpose, maybe to throw off the cops? Make it appear drug-related? Just throwing it out there.
Posts: 167
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2011
(02-05-2011, 05:27 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: how she (Tiffany) sounds means nothing to me. i have talked to so many stone killers who were more sincere in their lies than the original delivery of the Gettysburg Address.
point taken.
my judgment also comes from the simple fact that it's been almost six days since these killings took place and tiffany is not in custody, nor is anyone else.
LC you'd be in a much better position to respond to this...i've heard stats about something to the effect that if they don't have a perp in custody within 72 hours, there's only a 1 in 20 chance that it will ever be solved. your thoughts on what is quickly becoming a cold case?
-pink
|
