Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[Methusala]

[quote='notsure' pid='141622' dateline='1299437854']

Last: of course there are unconstitutional laws. Jim crow laws were held unconsititutional. criminal laws regarding inter-racial marriage. unconstitutional. Brown v. board ring a bell. state v. lopez (fed law for gun-free school zones) held unconstitutional (b4 you shit, the court said that making such a law falls to the states, not the federal govt. to get their nose into state schools and state criminal codes etc.) Those are the ones that jump out at me. There are others.

Bingo, you just made my point. Those laws were held by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional. That's how it's done. Not by people running around yelling "The sky is falling." So, do you like that process, or you don't like it? Up above, you complained about the Marbury v. Madison decision.

Thank you for an interesting post.

meth, u lost me. you said "We have good laws and we have bad laws, but we don't have unconstitutional laws." and I said "of course there are unconstitutional laws." and then gave some examples. I'm not sure how that proved your point of there not being unconsitutional laws. Am I misunderstanding your point of that statement.

M&M did open the the court to hear cases that the consitiution doesn't list as specific jurisdiction. they gave themselves that power of review. yea it's been hundreds of years, its not going to be overturned ever, but that is fact.

I have no problem with the process. It's the best we got. but I can't just accept that every law congress makes is proper on face value. sometimes civil disobedence in necessary, hell just to get standing to fight a shit law.

btw, who are you talking about when your talking about chicken little in a uniform???

my concern is the sovereingty of the states from the fed. I see the consititution originally as a direct way to hinder the groth of the fed and keep the state (the local govt) strong so the fed could never become like the crown that we had just battled for independance from.

Yes, I agree that I introduced some ambiguity into the discussion by saying "we don't have unconstitutional laws" and I apologize for doing so. You are right.

What I should have said is that people are free to challenge any law's constitutionality by a process that has been in place for hundreds of years. We don't need a revolution to do it, and those who argue or imply that it is something that has to do with the election or defeat of any one or group of congressmen or senators is simply wrong.

Challenging the constitutionality of any laws passed by Congress is a function of the judicial process, not the legislative process or the electoral process.

So those who don colonial outfits and march around with signs about allegedly unconstitutional laws either don't understand the process or are deliberately attempting to mislead others as to the process to be followed.

I'm sure there are many highly competent constitutional lawyers around Washington who would be glad to accept employment to handle their cases. :B

[curious]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

[Lady Cop]

all about nancy:

http://mockforums.net/thread-4228.html?h...ancy+grace

[curious]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

edit: not without lack of fingerprints and DNA, rather with lack of...

[NightOwl]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

Imagine the bags having serial numbers and boxes that's amazing - Oh! No! lets hope and pray it doesn't turn into a cold case. Not a word from Johnny's dad wonder how he's doing and what he's thinking about it all! If we knew the occupation of the monster/s if any that might help - what if it wasn't a drug gang. It was a Sadist that done this deed regardless.

[NightOwl]

Check this link out http://www.felonspy.com/ I checked Longacre Lane and apparently there is a felon close by.

Thought I'd share this.

[van64]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

Imagine the bags having serial numbers and boxes that's amazing - Oh! No! lets hope and pray it doesn't turn into a cold case. Not a word from Johnny's dad wonder how he's doing and what he's thinking about it all! If we knew the occupation of the monster/s if any that might help - what if it wasn't a drug gang. It was a Sadist that done this deed regardless.

With hundreds of thousands of bags produced monthly for BBY, if not millions, I'd be surprised if the bag itself, sans fingerprints or other DNA, would ever be useful to investigators. The bags would have production lot numbers (at least the bag's boxes would) but those bags could have come from the Straub kitchen just as easily as having been provided by the perps. Johnny's dad not only has his son's loss on his mind but Maytee is almost certainly driving him to the brink of suicide himself--whether he realizes she is or is not. I just don't know why not go ahead and shoot them. I mean then you know they're dead (of course if you hung around and waited for them to asphyxiate you'd know also) but if you had a stolen gun or something that'd be hard to trace back also.

All I know about about the importance of timeliness in murder cases is what I've learned from the First 48 on A&E's network: if the murderer is not arrested in the first 48 hours, the odds of an arrest drop dramatically. Now we have a billboard going up which tells us that LE has no one they are able to make an arrest on, and LE is letting their town council and the public know that if Q Public does not engage in behavior that would instigate their own demise, they have nothing to worry about, anyway. Ok. I get it now. This case has already gone cold.

[van64]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

Imagine the bags having serial numbers and boxes that's amazing - Oh! No! lets hope and pray it doesn't turn into a cold case. Not a word from Johnny's dad wonder how he's doing and what he's thinking about it all! If we knew the occupation of the monster/s if any that might help - what if it wasn't a drug gang. It was a Sadist that done this deed regardless.

With hundreds of thousands of bags produced monthly for BBY, if not millions, I'd be surprised if the bag itself, sans fingerprints or other DNA, would ever be useful to investigators. The bags would have production lot numbers (at least the bag's boxes would) but those bags could have come from the Straub kitchen just as easily as having been provided by the perps. Johnny's dad not only has his son's loss on his mind but Maytee is almost certainly driving him to the brink of suicide himself--whether he realizes she is or is not. I just don't know why not go ahead and shoot them. I mean then you know they're dead (of course if you hung around and waited for them to asphyxiate you'd know also) but if you had a stolen gun or something that'd be hard to trace back also.

All I know about about the importance of timeliness in murder cases is what I've learned from the First 48 on A&E's network: if the murderer is not arrested in the first 48 hours, the odds of an arrest drop dramatically. Now we have a billboard going up which tells us that LE has no one they are able to make an arrest on, and LE is letting their town council and the public know that if Q Public does not engage in behavior that would instigate their own demise, they have nothing to worry about, anyway. Ok. I get it now. This case has already gone cold.

Edit: I was talking about why not go ahead and shoot Johnny and Lisa instead of bag them--not why not go ahead and shoot Maytee and Johnny's dad. My thoughts ran ahead of themselves. This case is just so bizarre, I don't think I have yet managed to get my head wrapped around it.

[notsure]

Yes, I agree that I introduced some ambiguity into the discussion by saying "we don't have unconstitutional laws" and I apologize for doing so. You are right.

What I should have said is that people are free to challenge any law's constitutionality by a process that has been in place for hundreds of years. We don't need a revolution to do it, and those who argue or imply that it is something that has to do with the election or defeat of any one or group of congressmen or senators is simply wrong.

Challenging the constitutionality of any laws passed by Congress is a function of the judicial process, not the legislative process or the electoral process.

So those who don colonial outfits and march around with signs about allegedly unconstitutional laws either don't understand the process or are deliberately attempting to mislead others as to the process to be followed.

I'm sure there are many highly competent constitutional lawyers around Washington who would be glad to accept employment to handle their cases. :B

meth (old fart?) i agree with most of that.

what/ who is doing the colonial outfits? if i saw someone dressed like that i would bully them and take thier lunch money.

dont get me wrong I am sure everyone on the sup court bench would disagree with me re: m&m.

lol just like everyone is probably enjoying our con law lecture. jesus, i've turned into the same pain in the ass that has driven me nuts here.

back to your scheduled program: solving a double homicide.

insiders share something please b4 I start taking it out on my body! I have a fresh box of hostess twinkies and I know how to use them.

insiders, at least tell us at the very minimum someone isnt part of the murder or confirm when lisa was picked up from work. didnt someone say jonny was in lima b4 picking up lisa, way back in this thread? not sure who, but w/in the first week I think.

[notsure]

SHITSTORM - yesterday @ 10.27 p.m. Page 759 - Post 10625

Enjoyed your essay!

Thank you.

There are many matters on which I am not any more informed than the next person, but on that one I am educated. I spent years studying and reading the founders, not Joe the Plumber, as Methusala seems to think.

oddly, joe the plummer is from holland, and graduated from springfield, same as lisa.

[WolfHouse]

Something has been lurking in the back of my mind.

One of the posters either deliberately or undeliberately let it slip that
"Lisa was spit on." Here are some thoughts I had about that.
1. How would the 'family' know this?
2. Would police tell the family this if they knew it?
3. Why would someone repeat it?
4. If it were my family member, I would not have repeated it.
5. Could this be a 'test the chain' piece of info. I do not know what the
proper word for it is, but it is when a piece of information is placed with
one person who then deliberately 'slips' and says it to another person
to 'see the chain' down which that piece of information flows.

In addition:

A .How many of the facts on here are just such?
B. If Tiffany were a big time 'heroin' dealer, why would she be looking
to Johnny and Lisa for drugs?

Just some things that have not computed in my mind recently.
Any feedback?

[NightOwl]

SHITSTORM - yesterday @ 10.27 p.m. Page 759 - Post 10625

Enjoyed your essay!

Thank you.

There are many matters on which I am not any more informed than the next person, but on that one I am educated. I spent years studying and reading the founders, not Joe the Plumber, as Methusala seems to think.

oddly, joe the plummer is from holland, and graduated from springfield, same as lisa.

Good grief "Joe the Plummer" LOL
Holland Ohio yet!!!!
Think I'd rather have the Founding Fathers over for COFFEE any day!

[van64]

Something has been lurking in the back of my mind.

One of the posters either deliberately or undeliberately let it slip that
"Lisa was spit on." Here are some thoughts I had about that.
1. How would the 'family' know this?
2. Would police tell the family this if they knew it?
3. Why would someone repeat it?
4. If it were my family member, I would not have repeated it.
5. Could this be a 'test the chain' piece of info. I do not know what the
proper word for it is, but it is when a piece of information is placed with
one person who then deliberately 'slips' and says it to another person
to 'see the chain' down which that piece of information flows.
6. How many of the facts on here are just such?
7. And if Tiffany were a 'heroin' dealer, why would she be looking
to Johnny and Lisa for drugs?

Just some things that have not computed in my mind recently.
Any feedback?

Unfortunately, all these are possibilities. I don't think the family would know for sure unless LE told them about it and only then if the spittle were collected for DNA testing. One of the officers might have let it slip the first night; entirely possible, since everything was fresh and even if the officers were attempting to guard their emotions, I imagine the full horrible act of this crime even unnerved the most experienced amongst their ilk.

[JsMom]

Something has been lurking in the back of my mind.

One of the posters either deliberately or undeliberately let it slip that
"Lisa was spit on." Here are some thoughts I had about that.
1. How would the 'family' know this?
2. Would police tell the family this if they knew it?
3. Why would someone repeat it?
4. If it were my family member, I would not have repeated it.
5. Could this be a 'test the chain' piece of info. I do not know what the
proper word for it is, but it is when a piece of information is placed with
one person who then deliberately 'slips' and says it to another person
to 'see the chain' down which that piece of information flows.

In addition:

A .How many of the facts on here are just such?
B. If Tiffany were a big time 'heroin' dealer, why would she be looking
to Johnny and Lisa for drugs?

Just some things that have not computed in my mind recently.
Any feedback?

I hadnt read that she was spit on! WOW! Thats beyond disgusting! Them poor kids!

[NightOwl]

Just another random thought...from watching crime TV shows, which probably the majority of us do, a forensic evidence trail can in some cases lead you to the perps...for instance, if a bag from Bed, Bath and Beyond was used, each bag has a serial number, and cardboard boxes (item seized as evidence) would also have a way to trace it back to its origin. That being said, given that LS dad is a delivery driver for UPS, you would have to assume the materials used to carry out the murders would be easily accessible in the home, making it much more difficult to trace the evidence back to the perps...so ultimately what I'm getting at, is without lack of fingerprints or DNA, could this fall into the cold case files??

Imagine the bags having serial numbers and boxes that's amazing - Oh! No! lets hope and pray it doesn't turn into a cold case. Not a word from Johnny's dad wonder how he's doing and what he's thinking about it all! If we knew the occupation of the monster/s if any that might help - what if it wasn't a drug gang. It was a Sadist that done this deed regardless.

With hundreds of thousands of bags produced monthly for BBY, if not millions, I'd be surprised if the bag itself, sans fingerprints or other DNA, would ever be useful to investigators. The bags would have production lot numbers (at least the bag's boxes would) but those bags could have come from the Straub kitchen just as easily as having been provided by the perps. Johnny's dad not only has his son's loss on his mind but Maytee is almost certainly driving him to the brink of suicide himself--whether he realizes she is or is not. I just don't know why not go ahead and shoot them. I mean then you know they're dead (of course if you hung around and waited for them to asphyxiate you'd know also) but if you had a stolen gun or something that'd be hard to trace back also.

All I know about about the importance of timeliness in murder cases is what I've learned from the First 48 on A&E's network: if the murderer is not arrested in the first 48 hours, the odds of an arrest drop dramatically. Now we have a billboard going up which tells us that LE has no one they are able to make an arrest on, and LE is letting their town council and the public know that if Q Public does not engage in behavior that would instigate their own demise, they have nothing to worry about, anyway. Ok. I get it now. This case has already gone cold.

The billboard is telling me its a loner here - I admire law enforcement "haste makes waste" lets make sure we get the right dirty filthy animal here!

[van64]

Something has been lurking in the back of my mind.

One of the posters either deliberately or undeliberately let it slip that
"Lisa was spit on." Here are some thoughts I had about that.
1. How would the 'family' know this?
2. Would police tell the family this if they knew it?
3. Why would someone repeat it?
4. If it were my family member, I would not have repeated it.
5. Could this be a 'test the chain' piece of info. I do not know what the
proper word for it is, but it is when a piece of information is placed with
one person who then deliberately 'slips' and says it to another person
to 'see the chain' down which that piece of information flows.

In addition:

A .How many of the facts on here are just such?
B. If Tiffany were a big time 'heroin' dealer, why would she be looking
to Johnny and Lisa for drugs?

Just some things that have not computed in my mind recently.
Any feedback?

I hadnt read that she was spit on! WOW! Thats beyond disgusting! Them poor kids!

If in fact it is true she/they were spat upon, the criminal profiler would be able to utilize that information to add something to their profile(s). I'd love to read the criminal profile for this case.

[van64]

The billboard is telling me its a loner here - I admire law enforcement "haste makes waste" lets make sure we get the right dirty filthy animal here!
[/quote]

Why does the billboard indicate that to you? I just have a hard time believing that one person, even holding a gun, would be able to subdue two healthy, young people. Johnny at some point in time would have made his move to disarm the individual and Lisa would have beaned them with a frying pan. No--there's no way it was just one person. No way.

[notsure]

Check this link out http://www.felonspy.com/ I checked Longacre Lane and apparently there is a felon close by.

Thought I'd share this.

I wouldn't put to much into that site. I tried it and it said different names and different priors on the same road each time I put a different house number. Said my neighbor is named XYZ and is a rapest. It was the wrong name, and the neighbor is not a rapest. I then put in their house number, and got nothing. but two doors down where a widow lives alone, the site said she is really a 30 year old man, who was convicted for arson.

[NightOwl]

Something has been lurking in the back of my mind.

One of the posters either deliberately or undeliberately let it slip that
"Lisa was spit on." Here are some thoughts I had about that.
1. How would the 'family' know this?
2. Would police tell the family this if they knew it?
3. Why would someone repeat it?
4. If it were my family member, I would not have repeated it.
5. Could this be a 'test the chain' piece of info. I do not know what the
proper word for it is, but it is when a piece of information is placed with
one person who then deliberately 'slips' and says it to another person
to 'see the chain' down which that piece of information flows.
6. How many of the facts on here are just such?
7. And if Tiffany were a 'heroin' dealer, why would she be looking
to Johnny and Lisa for drugs?

Just some things that have not computed in my mind recently.
Any feedback?

Unfortunately, all these are possibilities. I don't think the family would know for sure unless LE told them about it and only then if the spittle were collected for DNA testing. One of the officers might have let it slip the first night; entirely possible, since everything was fresh and even if the officers were attempting to guard their emotions, I imagine the full horrible act of this crime even unnerved the most experienced amongst their ilk.

Yes Sir! some good points WolfHouse!
Agree with Van64 how horrible it would be for Johnny's dad - then the Police it has to be Hell just Hell!

[notsure]

I just don't know why not go ahead and shoot them. I mean then you know they're dead (of course if you hung around and waited for them to asphyxiate you'd know also) but if you had a stolen gun or something that'd be hard to trace back also.

I think the bags were used, but weren't working fast enough so the prick choked them, which caused the neck injuries. but could have also been during the initial struggle.