Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[soothsayer]

I still believe they were smart enough to bring plenty of tape but just in case they didn't, maybe they went back in with the other two still holding Johnny down and decided he had to die as well.

They unwrap the tape around Lisa's legs and begin bagging Johnny. He's struggling so they rip off a piece before they use the whole strip and tape his legs.

Again, I still think more than one roll of tape was used.

Just because its the same color doesn't make it the same roll of tape. Stores who sell duct tape sell them with about 20 rolls on display. Duct tape is a handyman's favorite.

They seem to have run out before they taped Lisa's legs. Her legs were tied with some article of clothing. That, coupled with the cardboard from the end of the roll, suggests one roll -- one roll that was probably not even a brand new roll. The two sets of dna -- well, it probably gets tossed from the guy to the gal, or vice versa -- whomever is taping up which victim.

That's my take, anyway.

[kitty1]

[quote='Lady Cop' pid='269331' dateline='134273609



A couple of interesting notes (at least interesting to me): The word is that Lisa and Johnny had been using Oxycontin, but what was prevalent in their systems was Percocet.

Maybe this will help. Oxycontin and Percocet have the same active ingredient - Oxycodone. Percocet contains Oxycodone and Acetaminophen and is an immediate release drug. Oxycontin contains only Oxycodone and is in an extended release form. They are both schedule 2 narcotics. Oxycontin comes in much higher doses and is the choice for drug addicts because they can bypass the extended release property and get the full extended release "buzz" that was meant for 8- 12 hours in an immediate fashion. Most drug tests only test for Oxycodone so it is impossible in those cases to tell whether a person ingested Percocet or Oxycontin. I believe that is why the blade stated "either Percocet or Oxycontin" Oxycontin is the preferred drug for addicts because it does not contain Acetaminophen. For every 5 mg of Percocet you also get 325 mg of Acet. Too much Acet can destroy your gut and liver. So if they eat 5 - 5 mg Percocets, they also eat over 1500 mg of Acet. But with Oxycontin, they just get straight Oxycodone and the doses are from 10mg to 80mg. So they can take a 40 mg Oxycontin and it is equivilent to taking 8 tabs of 5 mg Percocet without the Acet. They get rid of the extended release and make it immediate acting. So what I'm just trying to say with all this rambling on and on about is an opiate addict will gladly take either one. It is just a matter of what is available and how much money they have. An opiate addict will need a large handful of Percocets to catch a buzz, like 8 or 16 tabs so they prefer to have a 40 or 80mg Oxy. No, I do not know all this from personal experience, it is my job.

[Adub]

The prosecutor said "opium" when it should have been opiate, silly man.

[Older Than Dirt]

Kitty1, that was a very good post! Very informative. I know vicodin has Tylenol in it too. Where have you been???

[shitstorm]

I went back to page one of the thread looking for Tiffany's report (not Maytee's!) of her call with Johnny and ended up reading those first few posts by Unknown. Here are the super interesting ones and you'll see how right he was. My question is who told him this stuff?!


Question: If Ms.Z & Ms.T was supposed to be picked up by Lisa & Johnny around 11, why did he call my mom around 10 at night to get money from her, he would of had to drive 20 mins there and back and showed he had a car available to meet Johnny and Lisa at her house. If they were going to do percocets why would Lisa and Johnny want to drive all the way there to pick them up drive them back to the house just to do free drugs with Mr.Z and Ms.T? why didn't Mr.Z and Ms.T call the cops when she heard something bad had taken place at the very beginning? why did Mr.Z and Ms.T drive 20 mins to the house when they heard what happened on the phone? if they did that it seems to struggle with 2 people in the house, ran sack the house, tie them up and from what I hear very tight with a lot of tape around there arms and legs and search the house for money would have taken longer then 20 mins so by the time Mr.Z and Ms.T got there the killers were still in the house. the neighbors didn't here anyone speed away so these people just walked out of the house with nothing? and drove away all quite.

http://mockforums.net/post-123375.html#pid123375


I have just heard that when the cops arrived the first time all the lights were on in the house and could hear the tv on and they said there was nothing they could legally do cause they couldn't see a disturbance and on the second call out the tv was off and the light in the house were mostly off. That means when they got there the first time the killer(s) were still in the house! My source says they either parked there car in a neighbors driveway or around the side st.

http://mockforums.net/post-123458.html#pid123458


My source says there was a lot of evidence at the scene. So I know they got the evidence I think there just waiting for dna evidence to come back.

http://mockforums.net/post-123461.html#pid123461



I sure wish Unknown would come back.

[NightOwl]

Kitty1, that was a very good post! Very informative. I know vicodin has Tylenol in it too. Where have you been???

Ditto to the above! Happy to see you back again on Mock, I saved you a Nutty Bar

[YourOtherLeft]

Wow, it's great that Channel 13 posted those links, especially with the limited access to seats in court. Wonder if MVC is watching.
My thoughts/questions after watching Day 1 for Pettaway -
So prosecution says Johnny moved in with Straubs 2 weeks before Christmas --I wonder how many MVC lies are going to be revealed. I seem to remember MVC trying to make it sound like Johnny was only there to house-sit while Straubs were gone. Why lie about that?
Prosecutor seems to be making a point to portray Lisa more positively --saying she had a job, she had a car that Johnny was using, she took classes - but not too negative about Johnny either at least at this point -- says he was less "settled".
Zac & Tiffany were at the Straub house for the party earlier that week---makes it hard to use any DNA evidence against them that may have been found in the house.
No surprise that motivation for getting together with Zac & Tiff is to buy illegal drugs - says Zac and (pregnant) Tiff use percs too.
Also find it interesting that Sharita doesn't want to give Ruben's # to Tiffany (can't blame her). Can't wait til Tiffany takes the stand!
Why did Big John tell Tiff & Zac to come & get him and take him back to house? Why not drive there himself? Wouldn't that have been faster? Did Tiff know where Big John & MVC live? Had she been there before?
Horrible hearing description of Big John finding them on the floor. The description of the scene is so brutal...can't stand to think of what Johnny & Lisa went through.
Big John plays a big role in this --- somewhat tampered with scene because he found them & only sign of forced entry - front door kicked in by Big John.
Thought it was interesting that he said the Straubs didn't have black duct tape, that it was brought to the scene. Wonder if he has some proof/witness that puts the black duct tape in the hands of CP/SW leading up to this.
Don't entirely understand his statement that end of roll of duct tape on Lisa means she died last. Got to be better evidence of who died first than that, I'd think.
Admitted focused investigation on TW, ZB, and the Clarkes first.
Wondered why didn't mention the niece/cousin at the scene that night with Big John.
Still wondering, did SW/CP know Johnny/Lisa? Who was the link? Cousino through AP & TW?
I know he's retarded, but why deny ever sharing a cigarette with SW? Cannot wait to hear that phone call from Sam to Cam, I mean Sosa & Rambo.
Interesting that prosecutor is vague about other evidence -- hope he's right that they have lots of it and just being strategic.
Admitting that they know others are involved and the unknown male & female DNA seem hugely problematic for a conviction here at this point.
When the camera zooms in on Pettaway, it seems that he's very conscious of it...glancing over out of corner of his eye. (Think I see Kenyatta behind his defense team).
For the Defense's turn - thought it was interesting that the date they began with was early morning ¹⁄₃₁ (not ¹⁄₃₀ like Prosecutor) ..significance of that?
He wasted no time calling Johnny a drug dealer and perc addict.
Shocker that AP named as main supplier.
Interesting that Defense focused on not finding Cam's DNA anywhere except "portable" cig.
Also interesting that although saying SW took cig to house at some point, they're not trying to pin murders on Sam.
Named a ton of potential suspects of course including TW, AP, AC....& just barely stopped short of calling MVC & Big John suspects.
Didn't think the manipulated/corrupt crime scene argument was very strong -- using the argument on one hand that the lack of finding other DNA of Cam means he didn't do it doesn't mean much if you're also arguing that the crime scene handling was sloppy/botched.
Case seems thin/difficult at this point - especially with all the possible sordid suspects and MVC's incessant mouth.

[lou1975]

LC- I have been wondering is "familial" dna automatically searched on all cases?

[Lady Cop]

depends on the nature of the case. sometimes simply to rule people out.

[pspence]

Maytee is keenly watching every second.

[pspence]

That was a fascinating post yourotherleft. Thanks. Someone like me would so appreciate the recap ..please keep it up...

[pspence]

Prosecutor seems to be making a point to portray Lisa more positively --saying she had a job, she had a car that Johnny was using, she took classes -...

She was in a world way over her head...



Can't wait til Tiffany takes the stand! Omg. That alone is worth a plane ticket.


Why did Big John tell Tiff & Zac to come & get him and take him back to house? Why not drive there himself? Wouldn't that have been faster? Did Tiff know where Big John & MVC live? Had she been there before? Wow. Creepy possibilities


Thought it was interesting that he said the Straubs didn't have black duct tape, that it was brought to the scene. Wonder if he has some proof/witness that puts the black duct tape in the hands of CP/SW leading up to this.

I bet you've nailed it. Prosecutors will Walk us through a deeply circumstantial case and that link to the black tape to the defendants will be one of many links to them



Still wondering, did SW/CP know Johnny/Lisa? Who was the link? Cousino through AP & TW?

CANT WAIT for this info


Cannot wait to hear that phone call from Sam to Cam, I mean Sosa & Rambo.

[color=#FF1493]How would they have gotten a recording? [/

[Lady Cop]

How would they have gotten a recording?

all jailhouse phone calls by inmates are recorded.

[soothsayer]

LC- I have been wondering is "familial" dna automatically searched on all cases?

They probably asked for the dna of johnny's dad and whoever else entered the crime scene, just so they could eliminate them.

[Lady Cop]

depends on the nature of the case. sometimes simply to rule people out.

yep. i thought i said that.

[timeout]

LC, my lap top has a poor sound system but the second link that was posted in post #20828 worked well for me. Give that a try as the video is very interesting. Thank you ABC 13 ! I'll post the link as well LC, http://www.13abc.com/video?clipId=751820...start=true
You can give that a try.

On a side note, I too am worried about the evidence, but like most of us, I am not privy to what the prosecutor actually has.

[Lady Cop]

thankyou, i plan to find time this weekend to watch/listen. looking forward to it.

[Mustang]

Opening statements in the Williams trial just ended. Prior to bringing in the jury, Judge Mandros spent several minutes addressing the gallery and, in no uncertain terms, made it clear that any inappropriate conduct by anyone in the courtroom would not be tolerated. He suggested that anyone who feels they may not be able to control their emotions and actions not attend, and acknowledging that some of the evidence and testimony may be difficult to witness, suggested checking with either the prosecutor or defense attorney's who will be best able to forewarn when such evidence or testimony may occur, so that one may be prepared or not attend trial if they feel it may be too difficult to maintain decorum.

The jury was brought in at 9:15. 12 jurors and two alternates, consisting of 10 women and four men. Two of the men appear to be close in age to the victims; the other two appear to be in their fifties. Of the women, six appear to be 50 or older, with the oldest looking to be in her late seventies. The remaining women appear to range in age from late twenties to mid-thirties. There is one black woman and one of the men looks as though he may be Hispanic, but I can't be certain.

The prosecutor began his statement at 9:29. I thought he did an excellent job. A large video screen behind him, and facing directly at the jury showed a satellite view of the Straubs home and zoomed down to bird's-eye view before panning down and around to a street level view of the house. Then the approximately 4' x 5' screen displayed a beautiful photo of Lisa as he described her to the jury. At one point he mentioned that she was attending college and dreamed of becoming a registered nurse, and then after a short pause added, "like her mom." There was a picture of Johnny displayed while he was described to the jury. He was wearing a tuxedo and looked much younger, and certainly more innocent, than in any photos I've seen before.

In my opinion the prosecutor did a wonderful job. He was a little more animated in both his speech and gestures than the prosecutor in the Pettaway trial, and in my opinion, to great effect. At times as he referred to the, "brutal, cold-hearted," type of person that could commit such, "torture and brutality to another human being," it almost seemed as if his voice cracked. It was very subtle, but noticeable, and I think effective. He, at three times during his statement, moved toward the defense table, pointed at Williams, and with his voice rising said, "Sam Williams is responsible!"

He told the jury that evidence will include phone conversations Williams had that substantiate his involvement, as well as testimony from acquaintances of Williams who will describe conversations they had with him that will further convince them of his guilt. The prosecutor concluded his statement at 9:50.

The defense attorney, who I believe is named Jane Roman, took only14 minutes to give her opening statement, of which the first 11 minutes and the final minute were devoted to what I can only describe as trying to kiss the jury's collective ass. Thanking them for their service and inconvenience, etc. The remaining few minutes consisted solely of attempting, in a variety of ways and redundant as hell, to explain the concept of reasonable doubt. Her grammar was at times poor, she fumbled for words a couple of times, and seemed unprepared. It struck me that if I were a juror, I would have felt like I was being talked down to, and treated as though I am not very bright. Not once did she say Williams was innocent of the crime. It seemed as though she was almost saying to the jury, "Williams did it, but he's gonna get off once I convince you that the rules of the trial mean you have to let him go." It was actually quite surprising to me that her remarks were so weak, and I heard a similar comment from the Straubs brother-in-law as he left the courtroom. The jury was given instructions and led to the jury room to prepare for a visit to the Straubs home to view the crime scene.

Williams, although wearing a white shirt and necktie, still looked to me like a thug. Totally out of place in those clothes, the way you would see white-trash trying to "dress up" for a wedding or funeral. And the shirt they got him is so cheap it's practically see-through; I could clearly see his wife-beater underneath, as well his tattoo's. His face was pale and shiny, his nose protruding like it's been broken a few times, and his gut was battling his belt in a fight to keep his shirt neatly tucked in. The gut was winning. Not at all a sympathetic defendant.

Prior to the start of statements, Judge Mandros gave the jury what I thought was an excellent primer on reasonable doubt and circumstantial evidence. Telling the jury at one point that if one were to look out their window at night and there's no snow on the ground, and looked out again in the morning and then saw snow on the ground, one could reasonably conclude that it had snowed, even though they hadn't seen it snow. He also made it clear that reasonable doubt is not, "any possible doubt," but strong enough doubt that one would rely upon it in making important decisions affecting their own lives. I think his instructions, if adhered to by the jurors, certainly favor the prosecution in this case.

John Clark showed up but was informed he was not allowed to attend because he has been subpoenaed as a witness. He came quietly, and he left quietly. Another gentleman, appearing to be in his sixties, with gray hair and mustache, and nicely dressed was overheard saying that he was John Clark Sr. (which I thought was already taken?) and asked if he could attend. I don't know what transpired after that, but he was not in the courtroom. The Straubs could not attend for the same reason as Clark, and the family was represented by Lindsey (Lisa's sister), Mary Beth's sister and her daughter (Lisa's aunt and cousin), Mary Beth's other sisters husband (Lisa's uncle and "family spokesman" Jim Verbosky) and a close family friend. Clarks were represented by, as I was told, Johnny's uncle and grandmother.

Williams supporters included a young man and woman, appearing to be in their 20's, two older women who looked to be in their seventies, and a man in his 50's. It was interesting to me that they didn't sit in the front row, which remained vacant.

Channel 13 news was filming the proceedings, so hopefully there will again be start-to-finish video for those unable to attend. Hope this helps all you Mockers out there to be on top of this as much as possible from second-hand accounts.

[Lady Cop]

superb report Mustang! and thankyou so much! i'm so pleased we have some Mock members there!

[Duchess]

Hope this helps all you Mockers out there to be on top of this as much as possible from second-hand accounts.

That was a brilliant post! Thank you very much!