Religious Arguing/News here---->

[Carsman]

God will see to it that they get their just reward, in the end!  

If he truly is a merciful God He'll use lube.

You got it!

[HairOfTheDog]

That's what you get for making Catholic priests celibate.

I  hope you're kidding McFly.  I totally disagree with that line of thinking. If Catholic priests are simply sexually frustrated by the celibacy mandate, they could leave that vocation.

If they don't want to leave the vocation, they could break the celibacy mandate by getting sex from prostitutes or other consenting adults.

People who molest and rape children don't do so as a result of normal sexual frustration, in my opinion.  

They do so because they are pedophiles who desire children sexually, which is probably why some of them choose to be priests in the first place -- lots of inherent misplaced trust in the role, lots of easily manipulated targets in their midst, and full cover for their crimes provided by higher-ups who care more about the image and profits of the church than they do the lives of their congregation.  

I think some of the many teachers who get busted having sex with their minor students also choose that profession because the role is rife with inherent trust and there are so many potential victims on hand.  Fortunately, schools seem to be much better about kicking offenders to the curb than are churches.

[Duchess]

As we all know, the Catholic church has protected their own for years. The deviant behavior would be brought to their attention and believed and the church would simply shuffle the offender off to another parish. I have a friend from childhood who was an alter boy and there's a small group of us who believe he was sexually assaulted by one of the priests.

[Clang McFly]

That's what you get for making Catholic priests celibate.

I  hope you're kidding McFly.

If I lie and say no, can I milk the drama llama some more?

[HairOfTheDog]

That's what you get for making Catholic priests celibate.

I  hope you're kidding McFly.

If I lie and say no, can I milk the drama llama some more?

Probably not today.  But, stick your neck out and approach me again tomorrow. 

[HairOfTheDog]

As we all know, the Catholic church has protected their own for years. The deviant behavior would be brought to their attention and believed and the church would simply shuffle the offender off to another parish. I have a friend from childhood who was an alter boy and there's a small group of us who believe he was sexually assaulted by one of the priests.

Yeah, it's saddening and maddening how many lives have been fucked up due to pedophiles and rapists hiding behind clergy robes, with the higher-ups in the Catholic Church being willing accomplices.

Yesterday, the Vatican responded to the disgusting level of child molestation, rape and pornography detailed in the Philadelphia grand jury report.   This statement is stronger than previous ones I've seen from the Catholic Church.

I'm also not seeing/hearing bunches of Catholics and Christians contending that the evidence is all bogus or that the child abuse is carried out by "just a couple of bad apples" anymore.  There's way too much solid evidence and too many credible victims for that bullshit to fly at this point.

One of the most disturbing practices detailed in the grand jury report, to me at least, was how priests would give little boys they'd just violated for the first time special crosses to wear.  They did this so that other priests would be able to quickly identify the children who were already broken-in victims, essentially branding kids that were considered easy pickins for other pedophile priests.  Motherfuckers.

Anyway, this Vatican statement acknowledges that the church failed so many children and families, that they have a serious and wide-spread problem with 'morally and criminally reprehensible priests', that the Pope is on the side of the victims, and that they're working diligently on ways to resolve the problem by establishing a 'zero tolerance' policy.  I hope they're willing to put their (massive amounts of untaxed) money where their (long-silent) mouths are.

Vatican Statement:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/us/ca...ement.html

[Fry Guy]

I doubt it. They will do what they always do, the very least they need to, to make it go away.

My Father went to a Catholic boarding school. They abused him.

He was messed up. Immature, violent and given to melancholy. He was a big drinker and irresponsible. He was violent to me and could be very mean and nasty and petty. Behind all that he certainly had his moments and was far from all bad. He could be fun and funny, loving and strong and occasionally show pride in his children. He was just broken.

It doesn't stop at the victim. These evil old men really need to be beaten to death.

[ZEROSPHERES]

A Christian that has been financially successful can still serve Christ by giving to the poor, stocking foodshelves, etc.

In fact, without some wealth it's hard to take care of the poor. 

The Church is sending you a 2019 calendar so you can keep track of the days you will serve at the food bank.

[Clang McFly]

A Christian that has been financially successful can still serve Christ by giving to the poor, stocking foodshelves, etc.

In fact, without some wealth it's hard to take care of the poor. 

The Church is sending you a 2019 calendar so you can keep track of the days you will serve at the food bank.

Goddamn that's some good photoshop, Zero.

[HairOfTheDog]

I doubt it. They will do what they always do, the very least they need to, to make it go away.

My Father went to a Catholic boarding school. They abused him.

He was messed up. Immature, violent and given to melancholy. He was a big drinker and irresponsible. He was violent to me and could be very mean and nasty and petty. Behind all that he certainly had his moments and was far from all bad. He could be fun and funny, loving and strong and occasionally show pride in his children. He was just broken.

It doesn't stop at the victim. These evil old men really need to be beaten to death.

I'm sorry that your family was one of the many thousands affected by such evil bullshit FryGuy.  You're right, based on the victim/family interviews that I've read and watched, the abuse rarely ever stops at the direct victim. 

Too often, children who are abused in their formative years become abusive themselves -- learned behavior.  And those who don't become abusive are frequently broken in other ways due to the betrayal and self-loathing inflicted upon them by people their parents misguidedly taught them to respect and never question.  It's tragically fucked up.

Anyway, I agree that the Catholic Church has an unforgivable history of doing as little as possible to address and prevent the systemic child abuse.    I do believe they'll do more about it now though, not because I'm convinced that the Catholic Church has  fundamentally changed its priorities and grown a conscience.  But, more so because their unconscionable and criminal abuses have been so thoroughly exposed and proven that it's causing them to lose subscribers (and thus income) by the millions.

[ZEROSPHERES]

A Christian that has been financially successful can still serve Christ by giving to the poor, stocking foodshelves, etc.

In fact, without some wealth it's hard to take care of the poor. 

The Church is sending you a 2019 calendar so you can keep track of the days you will serve at the food bank.

Goddamn that's some good photoshop, Zero.

Thanks Clang,  But I take no Credit it's a Gify

[Fry Guy]

I doubt it. They will do what they always do, the very least they need to, to make it go away.

My Father went to a Catholic boarding school. They abused him.

He was messed up. Immature, violent and given to melancholy. He was a big drinker and irresponsible. He was violent to me and could be very mean and nasty and petty. Behind all that he certainly had his moments and was far from all bad. He could be fun and funny, loving and strong and occasionally show pride in his children. He was just broken.

It doesn't stop at the victim. These evil old men really need to be beaten to death.

I'm sorry that your family was one of the many thousands affected by such evil bullshit FryGuy.  You're right, based on the victim/family interviews that I've read and watched, the abuse rarely ever stops at the direct victim. 

Too often, children who are abused in their formative years become abusive themselves -- learned behavior.  And those who don't become abusive are frequently broken in other ways due to the betrayal and self-loathing inflicted upon them by people their parents taught them to respect and never question.  It's tragically fucked up.

Anyway, I agree that the Catholic Church has an unforgivable history of doing as little as possible to address and prevent the systemic child abuse.    I do believe they'll do more about it now though, not because I'm convinced that the Catholic Church has  fundamentally changed its priorities and grown a conscience.  But, more so because their unconscionable and criminal abuses have been so thoroughly exposed and proven that it's causing them to lose subscribers (and thuse income) by the millions.

Thanks.

To be clear about two things, whilst I KNOW he was physically abused I don't know for sure he was sexually abused but I believe he was, for a variety of reasons. I remember in one of his drunken melancholy moments he told me of his favourite Priest and how he taught him Latin and treated him like he was special and the favourite in his class and how this priest "turned on him" just like the others and how he never knew what the did wrong? Why he was asking me, I had no idea, I was just a kid. I simply filled our port glasses (he did not like to drink alone and he was not violent or nasty when he was melancholy).

Secondly, I was never sexually abused. I do well know that such abuse is often foisted on children of the abuse. THAT I never copped. So I am thankful.

I have not seen him for 20+ years and the last couple of occasions I punched him out. We did not have a great relationship, something akin to two alpha male in a pack trying to compete for dominance over the other. We were competitors and he was terribly badly equipped psychologically to be a parent. I hated the guy then and pity him now. I think we were both threatened by each other and not sure how position ourselves in the family. He did not help his part by staying out all night drinking and I did not by being my family's protector from both threats and from outside and from him. Bad dynamics.

That is the most I have spoken about my better parent for....well ever I think. I do not think on him often. I do think though he is in no small part a creation of the Christian Brothers. (Look them up).

[HairOfTheDog]

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse documented Christian Brothers activities in Australia and in particular in Ballarat. 

Twenty-two per cent of Christian Brothers across Australia have been alleged sexual predators since 1950, according to the royal commission. 

The commissioners concluded that the Christian Brothers "completely failed... to protect the most vulnerable children in their care" and that senior brothers–including Brother Paul Nangle, Ballarat's highest Brother in the 1970s–had deliberately misled police in more recent statements about their knowledge of abuse. One school, Christian Brothers' St Alipius boys school in Ballarat East, was staffed almost entirely by paedophiles. Brother Robert Best, Brother Edward Dowlan, Brother Gerald Leo Fitzgerald, and Brother Stephen Farrell have been indicated as sexually abusing children in the royal commission, in parliamentary inquiries, and in court cases.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregati...n_Brothers
-------------------

Rife with child abusers alright -- 22% is a hell of a lot.

I know there are some very good priests and leaders in the Catholic Church and other Christian churches / organizations.  And, I like Pope Francis's style and message.  

But, this shit has been going on so long and hurt so many people.  If the leadership doesn't take serious, effective, and aggressive action to clean house and put an end to it, I'd love to see them  driven out of business by mass exodus.

[ZEROSPHERES]

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse documented Christian Brothers activities in Australia and in particular in Ballarat. 

Twenty-two per cent of Christian Brothers across Australia have been alleged sexual predators since 1950, according to the royal commission. 

The commissioners concluded that the Christian Brothers "completely failed... to protect the most vulnerable children in their care" and that senior brothers–including Brother Paul Nangle, Ballarat's highest Brother in the 1970s–had deliberately misled police in more recent statements about their knowledge of abuse. One school, Christian Brothers' St Alipius boys school in Ballarat East, was staffed almost entirely by paedophiles. Brother Robert Best, Brother Edward Dowlan, Brother Gerald Leo Fitzgerald, and Brother Stephen Farrell have been indicated as sexually abusing children in the royal commission, in parliamentary inquiries, and in court cases.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregati...n_Brothers
-------------------

Rife with child abusers alright -- 22% is a hell of a lot.

I know there are some very good priests and leaders in the Catholic Church and other Christian churches / organizations.  And, I like Pope Francis's style and message.  

But, this shit has been going on so long and hurt so many people.  If the leadership doesn't take serious, effective, and aggressive action to clean house and put an end to it, I'd love to see them  driven out of business by mass exodus.

IMO It seems fair to liquidate the assets of the Catholic Church and distribute the proceeds as compensation to the victims. In Pennsylvania alone, there are estimated to be 300 priest pedophiles and at least 1000 victims.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/cathol...80814.html

[Fry Guy]

Nah. That is only the ones caught and the ones that come forward. That is why these kinds of things never go away. There is never every person caught nor any reformation nor any regulation.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Catholic Church's history of rampant child abuse is a global travesty and disgrace.

Pope Francis is in full damage- control mode following the latest revelations of wide-scale sex abuse, molestation and child pornography from within its ranks.  



Pope Francis, opening the first papal visit to Ireland in almost four decades, wasted little time Saturday in addressing the Catholic Church's sex abuse crisis, saying he shares outrage over the cover-up of "repugnant crimes" of priests who raped and molested children.

Ireland is ground zero of the Catholic Church’s sex abuse crisis, with the institution under fire across the globe for its systemic failures to protect children or to punish bishops who hid the crimes.

“With regard to the most vulnerable, I cannot fail to acknowledge the grave scandal caused in Ireland by the abuse of young people by members of the Church charged with responsibility for their protection and education,” Pope Francis said, speaking in Italian.

“The failure of ecclesiastical authorities — bishops, religious superiors, priests and others — to adequately address these repugnant crimes has rightly given rise to outrage, and remains a source of pain and shame for the Catholic community," he said in a speech to Irish government authorities. "I myself share these sentiments.”

He did not indicate, however, whether he plans to take forceful action to hold bishops accountable for protecting children or to sanction them when they fall short.

Francis was expected to meet with victims during his 36-hour trip and will have “many opportunities” to speak out about abuse, the Vatican said.

But neither Francis’ words nor a new meeting with abuse victims is likely to calm the outrage among rank-and-file Catholics following new revelations of sexual misconduct and cover-up in the United States, an ongoing crisis in Chile and prosecutions of top clerics in Australia and France.

[HairOfTheDog]

Irish Prime Minister ^ Leo Varadkar, in remarks in Dublin Castle before the pontiff spoke, set the tone for the visit in saying the time had come to build a "new" and "more mature" relationship between the Catholic Church and the Irish state.

“Building on our intertwined history, and learning from our shared mistakes and responsibilities, it can be one in which religion is no longer at the center of our society, but one in which it continues to have an important place,” he told several hundred dignitaries from Irish political, civic and religious life.  

He referred to "dark aspects" of the Catholic Church's history in Ireland, including illegal adoptions and child abuse by the clergy, as “stains on our State, our society and also the Catholic Church.”

Varadkar called the abuse “unspeakable crimes" that were perpetrated by people within the church "and then obscured to protect the institution." 

Addressing the Church’s handling of clerical sex abuse, the prime minister said there “can only be zero tolerance for those who abuse innocent children or who facilitate the abuse.”

Ireland has had one of the worst records of abuse in the world. Crimes were revealed to the deeply Catholic nation’s 4.8 million people through a series of government-mandated inquiries over the past decade. The reviews concluded that thousands of children were raped or molested by priests and physically abused in church-run schools while bishops covered up for abusers.

After the Irish church atoned for its past and enacted tough new norms to fight abuse, it had been looking to the first visit by a pope in 40 years to show a different, more caring church that understands the problems of Catholic families today.

Full story:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl...096319002/

[Duchess]

He did not indicate, however, whether he plans to take forceful action to hold bishops accountable for protecting children or to sanction them when they fall short.

I'm a big fan of Pope Francis, I hold him in high regard & I'm very worried he won't do the right thing. He needs to do this ^^^^^^. Now. Don't waste any more time. I don't want to stop being a fan.

[Clang McFly]

He did not indicate, however, whether he plans to take forceful action to hold bishops accountable for protecting children or to sanction them when they fall short.

I'm a big fan of Pope Francis, I hold him in high regard & I'm very worried he won't do the right thing. He needs to do this ^^^^^^. Now. Don't waste any more time. I don't want to stop being a fan.

I like Pope Francis, but I'm big fan of John Paul II. I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't do something about all this abuse of power and abuse of children.

[Duchess]

John Paul II. 

One of the strangest things I've ever seen was when he died and the entire Catholic church community was waiting for smoke signals. Black smoke/no decision, white smoke/ a new Pope has been chosen. Clang, it was damn weird, just so bizarre.