Religious Arguing/News here---->

[Clang McFly]

John Paul II. 

One of the strangest things I've ever seen was when he died and the entire Catholic church community was waiting for smoke signals. Black smoke/no decision, white smoke/ a new Pope has been chosen. Clang, it was damn weird, just so bizarre.

Bizarre maybe. But a least its a harmless tradition/practice. Not like the Catholic Church's many other bizarre harmful traditions and practices.

[Duchess]

I'm Catholic, I know there are bizarre traditions out the wazoo, some are stranger than others. I'm not concerned that God judges me for saying that, he gets me and loves me anyway.  

[HairOfTheDog]

He did not indicate, however, whether he plans to take forceful action to hold bishops accountable for protecting children or to sanction them when they fall short.

I'm a big fan of Pope Francis, I hold him in high regard & I'm very worried he won't do the right thing. He needs to do this ^^^^^^. Now. Don't waste any more time. I don't want to stop being a fan.

There's too much politicking in the business of religion and too much religion in the business of politicking these days, if you ask me.

Pope Francis is being pulled in different directions in terms of doing "what's right" about the rampant global child abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests and nuns.  

He's  got old school 'conservative' higher-ups in the church and congregation who STILL blame homosexuality for pedophile priests.  Seriously.  They seem to think if you screen priests and get rid of the gay ones, problem solved. 

The general public, however, is not so ignorant as to equate homosexuality with pedophilia and expects more than 'sorry' and 'we'll look into it' yet again.  Much more.  There are reasons agnosticism and atheism are becoming more common; this ongoing systemic child abuse by the Catholic Church is one of those reasons, I suspect.

Anyway, Francis is saying all the right things.  He's harshly condemned the offenders, he's harshly condemned the Catholic Church itself for allowing it to happen and not doing enough to stop it for so fucking long, and he says actions will be taken.  

I hope he's willing and able to take very aggressive action to assist the victims, to allow the offenders to be prosecuted by courts of law instead of protected by the Church, and to implement preventative screening measures to minimize future occurrences.  If not, I hope the Catholic Church crumbles.

[Fry Guy]

I do not have too much issue with Religion. I have an issue with Authoritarianism.
Someone wants to pray or feel complete or blessed or in one with a higher purpose, more power to them. I think I would encourage them in whichever positive thing that gives them purpose, hope and joy.
But if they are shackled to a religion that feeds on their fears and angers and hatred or disdain of others not like them, then I would not encourage this.
Furthermore if they say "This is so good. Good for me and good for everyone. You MUST convert. You have no option", I say "Fuck right off"

[Clang McFly]

I think I would encourage them in whichever positive thing that gives them purpose, hope and joy.

Glad to hear it. I'll have your support then when I start my Beer and Friendship religion/Church?

Our Father who be at Artisanal Brewery
Hollow be thy Beer Gut
Thy friends will come 
Thy beer will be drunk
As it is is now
It soon won't be(I'm drunk).
Forever and ever.....Amen

*beer farts*

[BigMark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFtLONl4cNc

[HairOfTheDog]

Pope Francis is under increasing pressure from his detractors in the Catholic hierarchy and from congregants.  

Thousands of Catholic women have signed off on a letter compelling Francis to answer questions about what one of his conservative detractors (Archbishop Vigano) is alleging.  

Here's a snip of the letter:
Your Holiness: We write to you, Holy Father, to pose questions that need answers.

We are Catholic women deeply committed to our faith and profoundly grateful for Church teachings, the Sacraments, and the many good bishops and priests who have blessed our lives.

Our hearts are broken, our faith tested, by the escalating crisis engulfing our beloved Church. We are angry, betrayed and disillusioned. The pain and suffering of the victims never ends, as each news cycle brings more horrific revelations of sexual abuse, sexual misconduct, cover-ups, and deceit—even at the Church's highest levels.

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò's recent statement impels us to reach out to you directly for answers. His testimony accuses you, Holy Father, and highly placed cardinals of turning a blind eye to former Cardinal McCarrick's egregious behavior, and promoting this predator as a global spokesman and spiritual leader. Is this true?

To your hurting flock, Pope Francis, your words are inadequate. They sting, reminiscent of the clericalism you so recently condemned. We need leadership, truth, and transparency. We, your flock, deserve your answers now.

Specifically, we humbly implore you to answer the following questions, as the answers are surely known to you. Archbishop Viganò says that in June 2013 he conveyed to you this message (in essence) about then-Cardinal McCarrick:

'He corrupted generations of seminarians and priests and Pope Benedict ordered him to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.'

Is this true? What did Archbishop Viganò convey to you in June 2013 about then-Cardinal McCarrick?

(continued)

[HairOfTheDog]

When did you learn of any allegations of sexual abuse or sexual misconduct with adults by then-Cardinal McCarrick?

When did you learn of Pope Benedict's restrictions on then-Cardinal McCarrick? And did you release then-Cardinal McCarrick from any of Pope Benedict's restrictions?

Holy Father, in your letter to the People of God on the scandals, you wrote: 'An awareness of sin helps us to acknowledge the errors, the crimes and the wounds caused in the past and allows us, in the present, to be more open and committed along a journey of renewed conversion.' That's why we expect you, our Holy Father, to be honest with us.

Holy Father, we are the 'incisive presence' the Church needs, and we need your answers.

Letter in full:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...tions.html
------------------------------

If Pope Francis turned a blind eye and even promoted a known child abuser (Cardinal MacCarrick), like Pope's before him, I think he's in a world of hurt in this current political climate.  But, refusing to answer the questions is likely hurting him just as much.  

I hope the allegations aren't true and think Pope Francis should answer the questions in any case.

[Carsman]

When did you learn of any allegations of sexual abuse or sexual misconduct with adults by then-Cardinal McCarrick?

When did you learn of Pope Benedict's restrictions on then-Cardinal McCarrick? And did you release then-Cardinal McCarrick from any of Pope Benedict's restrictions?

Holy Father, in your letter to the People of God on the scandals, you wrote: 'An awareness of sin helps us to acknowledge the errors, the crimes and the wounds caused in the past and allows us, in the present, to be more open and committed along a journey of renewed conversion.' That's why we expect you, our Holy Father, to be honest with us.

Holy Father, we are the 'incisive presence' the Church needs, and we need your answers.

Letter in full:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...tions.html
------------------------------

If Pope Francis turned a blind eye and even promoted a known child abuser (Cardinal MacCarrick), like Pope's before him, I think he's in a world of hurt in this current political climate.  But, refusing to answer the questions is likely hurting him just as much.  

I hope the allegations aren't true and think Pope Francis should answer the questions in any case.

I too hope the allegations aren't true as well!
I was impressed with Pope Francis in the beginning when he seemed like a very "humble" person.
He did not wear the traditional Gold slippers, or Gold crucifix, he wore regular shoes, wooden crucifix, and plain vespers.
He started relaxing rules to make it easier for Catholics to abide with the religion, if I recollect correctly.
I liked him.

Anyway, it will be hard to believe that the "man in charge", who was an expert in his field for many years did not have even a slight feeling for what was going on in his domain.

A Wise saying is: It is better to say nothing, and be "thought" guilty, then to open mouth, and "prove" it!

[HairOfTheDog]

A Wise saying is: It is better to say nothing, and be "thought" guilty, then to open mouth, and "prove" it![/color][/b]

Yeah, that is a wise saying and may hold true in this case.

I just don't think Francis is going to last if he continues to respond to demands for answers with, "I'm not going to say a word on the matter." People are disillusioned and royally pissed, and rightly so.

If there's legal action involved and he's not allowed to talk about it, I wish he'd just say so.

If he didn't protect and promote the child abuser, I wish he'd adamantly deny the allegations.  

If he is indeed guilty, I wish he'd  cop to it, explain why it happened, and outline his proposal for making amends.  While he would probably get crucified for the honesty, the confession would be more respectable and closer to practicing what he preaches than being a silent hypocrite.

[Carsman]

Funny, after posting my comments about the Pope yesterday, I got a letter in the mail today, asking for a generous donation!

It was from the Arch Diocese in NE. I threw it out!    (Guess I'm going to Hell!) 

[HairOfTheDog]

I doubt you'll go straight to hell over that transgression Cars.

More likely, you'll be stuck in Purgatory until you fork out that generous donation. Business is business.

Then, once you've emptied your wallet, the floor will drop out and thus will begin your descent into the fiery pit.

On the plus side, you'll probably bump into some of your most fun passed friends down there. ")

[Carsman]

I doubt you'll go straight to hell over that transgression Cars.

More likely, you'll be stuck in Purgatory until you fork out that  generous donation.  Business is business.

Then, once you've emptied your wallet,  the floor will drop out and thus will begin your descent into the fiery pit.

On the plus side, you'll probably bump into some of your most fun passed friends down there.  ")

I'll be sure to say hello when you get there! 

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Cars.

If I get there first, I'll pop out of my handbasket and do the same when you arrive.

[Carsman]

At least you'll have the luxury of being in a handbasket!

[HairOfTheDog]

At least you'll have the luxury of being in a handbasket!

It's all about planning.

I've been told where I'm going straight to a number of times and I'm no fool (most of the time).  

I fire-proofed my handbasket years ago. 

[Maggot]

Dante ruined hell for everyone.

[Clang McFly]

Dante ruined hell for everyone.

But then his interior designer cousin saved Hell. I got a glimpse at the 10^th circle of Hell and it is FABULOUS! *sassy Z snap*

[BigMark]

Lots of corduroy and mahogany on the 9 circle.

[Clang McFly]

Lots of corduroy and mahogany on the 9 circle.

Them demon bitches love it when the sinners go....