Syria

[Duchess]

You don't understand the math.and your goal is to protect the delusional pud sucker.

Bwahahahaha!

[Duchess]

You might want to continue this in the drunken Mocker thread, Dick.

[Cynical Ninja]

Look out mockers dick is visiting his old and trusted friend Jim Beam tonight!

I myself am going crack open the vino now and watch Italian films on the Horror Channel.

[IMaDick]

WOW OP, now that is original, I mean right after Duchess said it it's original. Pull your head out and take a breath.

[Duchess]

User started this thread six months ago. There has been no change for the better, to the contrary, things have gotten progressively worse.

This little boy is dead, that's his Dad holding him -

[crash]

stupid double post thing...

[crash]

User started this thread six months ago. There has been no change for the better, to the contrary, things have gotten progressively worse.

This little boy is dead, that's his Dad holding him -

You mean 18 months ago?

Nobody wins in war, it never decides who is right, only who is left.

[Duchess]

Oops. That would be 2011, not 2012. Jeezus.

[username]

I think we're hard pressed to get involved since we just named one of the rebel groups a terrorist organization. Look at what's going on in Egypt. I don't know that we could be certain that those we were helping wouldn't be worse than what's there.

I think keeping an eye on those chemical weapons and whose hands they might fall into, plus humanitarian aid, is about all we can do right now.

[Midwest Spy]

The world has a different feel now than it did 10-20 years ago.

To me, our national security/interests have to be affected directly in order for us to become involved.

I honestly don't know the big picture as far as Syria is concerned. I know they're tight with Iran, but beyond that, not sure.

I feel for any parent holding their dead child. What anguish....

On a lighter note, re-reading this thread reminded me how much I used to laugh when Dick and CN would spar. Dick loved to throw the zingers at Duchess too. Good times.

[HairOfTheDog]

From CBS News this morning:

VATICAN CITY Pope Benedict XVI wished Christmas peace to the world Tuesday, decrying the slaughter of the "defenseless" in Syria and urging Israelis and Palestinians to find the courage to negotiate.

In his "Urbi et Orbi" speech, which traditionally reviews world events and global challenges, Benedict prayed that "peace spring up for the people of Syria, deeply wounded and divided by a conflict that does not spare even the defenseless and reaps innocent victims."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-5756...-in-syria/

I'm not religious, but I'm with the Pope on this one - just don't think prayer is gonna help though. There are lots of people praying, yet the slaughters in Syria continue to mount, along with the tensions between Israelis and Palestinians.

Hoping for local peaceful resolutions or at least some headway in the new year, but betting on some type of 3^rd party international intervention instead...

[aussiefriend]

Yeah but HoTD it's like, just now? Come on.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah but HoTD it's like, just now? Come on.

The Pope has publicly hoped and prayed for the Syrian "crisis" or "uprising" or "civil war" or "humanitarian autrocities" (depending on who's reporting) to be resolved peacefully many times already, to no avail.

I don't have the answers or a strong opinion on what type of international intervention (if any) would be righteous or effective. It's coming up on 2 years in March and the body count is now over 50,000, with half of that estimated to be civilians and the other half comprised of both government and rebel armed forces. It's not split by location or religion primarily, but rather those who support the government and those who oppose it.

Up until early 2011, Syria was relatively stable under the same ruler for over a decade when anti-government protests began and started spreading quickly into a unified movement and army. It's been reported that the government is using some groups classified as "terrorists" to halt the protestors and the rebel army (SNC), and there are also those labeled as "terrorists" within the SNC.

You've got hundreds of thousands of protestors being displaced or taking refuge in Turkey, protestors going missing altogether, etc... You've got Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, and the Arab League openly condemning the Syrian government's use of violence against protestors, along with the European Union and USA providing non-military support (communications, intelligence, supplies...) to the SNC at some points. Then, you've got Russia, Iran, and Iraqi Shi'ites supporting the Syrian government and reportedly supplying weapons and some troops.

So, yes, it's devastating to see civilians (or any one else) being killed in the midst of this civil war, especially children. But, what would you like to see other countries or international organizations do? Should we intervene and assist the SNC by supplying armed forces (which could well prompt countries supporting Syria's government to intervene similarly on the opposing side), thereby expanding this civil war into an international one? Should we just supply weapons and not send troops? Should we let the Syrians take care of it themselves? Should the UN get more involved in trying to broker peace talks? Who's qualified to lead Syria if the current government gets toppled by international intervention?

Point is, it's not a situation where any outside forces would be wise to just go blazing in, imo. Local negotiations have been attempted and failed since this begun almost 2 years ago. Sadly, neither side seems all that willing to negotiate, imo. What's the appropriate amount of time or number of casualties to justify intervening in a civil war?

What do you think should be done, my friend aussie? I'm kinda just jumping off your post and venting; have stayed silent on this one thus far because it's so frustrating and sad. I don't expect you to answer seriously unless you really have a firm opinion about what should be done.

P.s. not addressing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict here; whole other issue and much longer history...

End of rant... All JMO, according to my understanding of the situation.

[aussiefriend]

End of rant...

Whew! I'll say.

Bashar Al Assad has gone way too far way long ago. When I witnessed the butchered skulls of infants on youtube I knew that this guy would do anything to stay in power. He needs to be removed today. I don't know why the powers that be have not done this. I am not privy to this information. Has Syria got no oil? Take him out.

[HairOfTheDog]

"Take him out" is one of the worst possible answers at this time, imo. And, yes, Syria has oil. It's not a major exporter of oil as compared to other Middle Eastern countries, but it generates a few billion dollars a year and is one of the top revenue generators for Syria.

I'm not defending Assad, aussie, but I'm not sure you're aware of who makes up the opposition forces. You saw a youtube video that understandably affected you. The type of atrocities reflected in that video have been attributed to both the government and opposition forces; both sides.

"What comes next?" has to be asked and there needs to be an answer before any outside forces jump into an internal conflict/war or consider taking out a country's leader. Assad still has a lot of support within Syria. Without a plan or qualified organization to take over, there would likely be more chaos and an even worse situation for Syrian civilians under no rule and in flux.

The SNC has only just been recognized as "legitimate" and now they are being coached and groomed by their backers (US, Turkey, AL..,), imo. It's not an overnight process. Plus, aussie, it'd be extremely ignorant for any third party(s) to contemplate "taking out" Assad without considering Russia, Iraq and China's position in favor of the Syrian government and their most likely responses.

I am glad to see the SNC recognized as a "legitimate" organization now; that recognition enabled the US and other countries to officially budget and fund humanitarian aid in the form of blankets, supplies and other necessities to those Syrians caught in the cross-fire.

I would like to see a push from all outside forces encouraging Assad and the SNC leaders to negotiate and perhaps re-organize into a more "democratic" government. That's not looking very likely, but it should be pursued more vigorously before assassination is even contemplated, imo.

[Duchess]

I've seen that crazy bastard's wife & she looks like someone I'd see at a Junior League meeting. She looks lovely & refined, I can't help but think she has to be a little crazy to be married to that monster.

[HairOfTheDog]

I've seen that crazy bastard's wife & she looks like someone I'd see at a Junior League meeting. She looks lovely & refined, I can't help but think she has to be a little crazy to be married to that monster.

Yes, she is lovely.



He graduated from medical school, served in the military, and was largely viewed positively as a world leader up until the Arab uprisings and the protests in Syria specifically. He has been a critic of Israel and the US (and a supporter of the Palestinians) for some time.

There's a lot to this story beyond the horrifying images we see in the mainstream western media, of course. I hope he resigns or a consolidated government can be established.

I hate what's happening to Syrian civilians (same as I did with those slaughtered in Iraq, Libya...), but really hope assassination of another world leader isn't the "default" answer. It should be a last resort in this case, imo. We've been officially fighting a war on a terror for over a decade.

Backing groups with strong terrorist participation/influence shouldn't be a default long term solution in ousting what is viewed as a corrupt government, imo. At present, the SNC is defending what has been labeled a terrorist faction because that faction has been amongst the most effective in its war against the government forces. Lots of casualties on both ides and, unfortunately, for those simply caught in the middle. Fucking war...

Whatever happens in 2013, I hope the Syrian people can work it out themselves. Regardless, I'm happy to see them receiving humanitarian aid.

[BlueTiki]

Has Syria got no oil?

Australia produces and exports more oil on a daily basis than does Syria.

C'mon, Aussie . . . with an "advanced" degree comes responsibility.

You really should know this shit.

WMDs (chemical weapons) . . . hmmmm . . . where have I heard that before?

BTW - Assad's father was a real sonofabitch.

Tree and fruit thing?

[Duchess]

He graduated from medical school, served in the military, and was largely viewed positively as a world leader up until the Arab uprisings and the protests in Syria specifically. He has been a critic of Israel and the US (and a supporter of the Palestinians) for some time.

I was prepared to believe she is braindead given her love for this man but I couldn't have been more wrong. She's a highly educated Brit, a former investment banker. They are both very smart people.

[BlueTiki]

He graduated from medical school . . .

I guess the Hippocratic Medical Oath only applies to your patients . . . not your citizens.