Do you think this is shitty or smart?

[Cracker]

I can't decide.

A lady at work was telling me she and her husband were going to buy a bigger house and let the bank take the house they have now. Apparently this is how it works: Sell your house on a Lease/Purchase to any old dumbass that will sign, doesn't matter if they can afford the house or not, you just need the paper. Buy a nicer house because the nicer house is now cheaper than the shitty house you live in right now. Let the company reposses your shitty house as soon as the dumbasses stop paying the lease because your credit will clear up in two years and you now have a nicer house for less money.

At first I thought that was the shittiest thing ever. I told the lady that I though it was probably illegal to do that. She explained her reasoning: She and her husband bought their house in good faith over 12 years ago (around 200K). They have made every single payment on time during those years. The house around the corner just sold for 50K. Why should she pay all that money for the house that she can never sell just because the rest of the country didn't pay their mortgage?

Now I'm torn. I don't blame her. Why should she pay four times the amount for a house because some other piece of shit didn't pay their mortgage?

What do you think? Shitty or smart?

[Nina]

I say Smart. I work for a company that buys and sells foreclosures and handles REO properties. That is actually a very common practice. People also let the home be foreclosed on, let an investor or friend buy it at auction, then lease purchase it back......usually cuts their payments in half. If their credit is already bad anyways it makes good sense.

I think people would be disgusted if they saw the big picture. Investors are buying these houses up sight unseen and then putting Section 8 tenants in them. I am not talking about $400-500 per month "assistance".... the minimum my company gets for any of their houses is $700 and many are up to $1200. Section 8 tenants are almost never good tenants or the kind of neighbors you would want. They lower the property values for the neighborhood even further. More than ¹⁄₂ the investors we deal with are from overseas.

It might seem your co-worker is taking advantage of the system but the system is already so broken and corrupt. The banks are getting bailouts, the taxpayers are footing the bill for the Section 8 tenants (this is a LIFESTYLE for them, not hard times) and overseas investors are getting rich off our housing crisis. I say she is smart to protect herself however she can.

[Cracker]

I say Smart. I work for a company that buys and sells foreclosures and handles REO properties. That is actually a very common practice. People also let the home be foreclosed on, let an investor or friend buy it at auction, then lease purchase it back......usually cuts their payments in half. If their credit is already bad anyways it makes good sense.

I think people would be disgusted if they saw the big picture. Investors are buying these houses up sight unseen and then putting Section 8 tenants in them. I am not talking about $400-500 per month "assistance".... the minimum my company gets for any of their houses is $700 and many are up to $1200. Section 8 tenants are almost never good tenants or the kind of neighbors you would want. They lower the property values for the neighborhood even further. More than ¹⁄₂ the investors we deal with are from overseas.

It might seem your co-worker is taking advantage of the system but the system is already so broken and corrupt. The banks are getting bailouts, the taxpayers are footing the bill for the Section 8 tenants (this is a LIFESTYLE for them, not hard times) and overseas investors are getting rich off our housing crisis. I say she is smart to protect herself however she can.

Yah know, Nina, I totally see your point. At first I though she was a POS for even thinking that, but when she said she still owed almost all of the original 200K and that her house was worth 50K, I realized that her house may NEVER be worth 200K again. Why keep paying on it?

If this is the only way she and her husband can retire on schedule, I just don't blame her. They will make 150K this year if they do this, and will lose that plus interest if they don't.

I now have a completely evil view of real estate. Something isn't right in this country...

[Cracker]

Would you do what that lady and her husband are going to do? Is that (missed opportunities) how rich people get rich and poor people stay poor? I have always heard that the really wealthy people make their money when the economy is bad...

I know it will make you angry when you first think about it, BUT think about it some more. Are you a fool for holding the bag? I just don't know. I think this is my new thought, my new something to know, for the week.

[aussiefriend]

Dishonest, inauthentic, false, misrepresentation, fraud, lawsuit coming. This is what comes to mind.

[Cracker]

Dishonest, inauthentic, false, misrepresentation, fraud, lawsuit coming. This is what comes to mind.

I thought that, too, at first. BUT...

What is dishonest about it? Think about this: Mortgage companies and real estate agents sold houses, complete with financing, to people who they KNEW couldn't afford to pay for the houses. As a result, the people lost their homes and housing prices plummeted.

If you lease your house to a person who probably can't afford to pay for it so you can get a better deal on a house, how is that any different than what the banks and real estate professionals did?

I have a hard time being a powerless victim. I don't like being a POS, either. Both suck, but if you are a victim, you are just a victim. If you are a POS, you are a POS with more money. haha

What do the non-thumpers think? Shitty or smart?

[Fibonacci Prima]

Sounds pretty smart to me. You can only get shit on by gubment so long before you take your marbles and go home...so to speak. If it's legal, no reason not to sneak through the loophole.

That concludes my overusage of cliche phrases.

[HairOfTheDog]

Cracker posted:
I have a hard time being a powerless victim. I don't like being a POS, either. Both suck, but if you are a victim, you are just a victim. If you are a POS, you are a POS with more money. haha

What do the non-thumpers think? Shitty or smart?

Shitty and smart. I understand their plight first-hand too.

I bought my house 6 years ago, had to bid against 13 other people. At the time, it was a seller's market in a highly competitive city. Within a year of buying it, the economy took a nose dive and what I thought was going to be a good equity-building investment is not. It's killing me financially because my business is effected by how much disposable income families have in their pockets and everyone is hurting.

So, my income is less, my mortgage is really high, my house has not increased in value, and my property tax is $10k per year. I'm not bitching; but these are the facts. I really don't know what I'm going to do if the economy doesn't turn around soon. So, I understand these people's motivation and maybe something that I would have considered shitty in the past looks more like economic survival in a deep recession/depression.

P.s. Luckily, while San Francisco is outrageously expensive, we almost never experience property devaluation. But, I thought I would have gained a lot of equity by now instead of being stagnant with less income (and feeling trapped). The trailer in the woods sounds good to me; but not reasonable for business purposes.

[aussiefriend]

If you lease your house to a person who probably can't afford to pay for it so you can get a better deal on a house, how is that any different than what the banks and real estate professionals did?

You know what Cracker, there is something that stinks about it. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

I can't stand real estate type people anyway. When you buy a house you know when its "the one". Sometimes the house chooses you. Trying to get ahead by illegitimate means is not the recipe for success and good tidings in life. I don't what other people do.

Look at that Rupert Murdoch, he has all the wealth in the world, and look at how he has got it, from hacking into peoples phones and unethical means. So are you happy Rupert? People hate you.

[cannongal]

Shitty and smart. I understand their plight first-hand too.

I agree. From the friends perspective, it's a smart move...Kind of a get it while you can attitude.

From my perspective, it's kind of shitty, almost fraudulent, because my first thought would be "great, now the banks are going to raise interest rates on the rest of us to make up for the defaulted mortgages".

Then I remember that my interest rate is locked in, and we only have 5 years left on the loan, so I really have nothing to get mad at- other than another ass-whole taking advantage of a broken system.

[BlueTiki]

It's a strategic move for folks who make shit decisions.

Think about it . . . realtors and mortgage companies sold homes to buyers knowing they couldn't afford the purchase? Hahahaha!

Yeah . . . the buyer had NOTHING to do with the purchase!

Next . . . let's pay for investors' losses in gold, stocks and securities.

C'mon . . . this shit is supposed to increase in value, too.

If the greedy assholes, making poor decisions, would be taxed on the debt forgiveness, I'm on board. If not, they're just like the lazy fucks who don't work and expect the gubment to support their lifestyle and decisions, to me.

Face it . . . they're just another entitlement recipient with "the government owes me" attitude. "It's not MY fault!"

By the way . . . who's paying for all of these purchase deficits?

Oh . . . right. Tax the rich. They CAN afford it!

[Carsman]

Morally it may be wrong, financially, it's smart! God helps those who help themselves, the end.

[BlueTiki]

Morally it may be wrong, financially, it's smart! God helps those who help themselves, the end.

Took advantage of a "walk away", didn't you?

"God helps those who help themselves." Buffet, much?

[Carsman]

Morally it may be wrong, financially, it's smart! God helps those who help themselves, the end.

Took advantage of a "walk away", didn't you?

"God helps those who help themselves." Buffet, much?

No, & yes!

[Cracker]

Another thought to add to this:

The people moving into the foreclosed homes are people who can only qualify for a home loan if the price of the house is "half-off." That lowers the SES of the entire neighborhood. First time I see someone parking on grass or a car up on blocks, I'm ditching this fucker. I don't want to pay full price to live in a fucked up neighborhood.

The housing bubble had more implications than were first apparent. My neighborhood (about 30 homes) has already had 3 foreclosures. I'm waiting to see who moves in to these homes.

Cracker isn't going down with the ship. I'm always going to do what is best for my family and I expect other people to do the same. If I were in that lady's shoes, I'm not sure what I would do. If my neighborhood goes to shit, I'm not staying. I'll get out however I can so my family can be safe. I'm in perpetual "fuck the government" mode lately, so that isn't a huge concern for me. They have fucked the middle class too much lately to get much loyalty from me.

[Duchess]

This is happening enough that it caught the eye of 60 Minutes producers who profiled it.

[Maggot]

I guess it all depends how much you value paper money.

[Cracker]

I guess it all depends how much you value paper money.

I value where I live more. As I said, if my neighborhood went downhill because of excessive foreclosures, I would move. If I had to lease my house to do it, I would.

I don't live in a cheap, white trash neighborhood because I don't WANT to live like that. If the mortgage crisis results in me living around people I want to avoid, I will do what I have to do.

I feel like the situation that was allowed to develop took away my choice to live a certain lifestyle. I'm not going to be victimized like that. Just the idea that I would have to pay full price for a home that is in a not-as-good area makes me angry. That's not how it is supposed to be. Keep the classes separated or people get pissy. haha It was bad enough when all the fucking carpet baggers came down.

[BlueTiki]

All in all, it's a mulligan for people who either:

A.) Had no business purchasing a home beyond their means

B.) Were greedy investors who bought during the bubble

C.) Dumbshits

No matter. My brothers and I snapped up three prime pieces in the past 6 weeks.

We're holding off on purchasing another two UNTIL Obama announces he's turning to the private sector to 'rescue' the real estate market and then lease back to people needing shelter.

Thanks for the forthcoming tax incentive, Mr. President!

Go ahead . . . raise my effective rates. We've got 'business' deductions!

[Cracker]

Is Tiki Chinese? Did anyone ever check? She's buying up America. haha (Good, Tiki, it is really yours anyway...)

Do you mean buying a house is a bad investment? Because I keep hearing people say that AFTER the fact, I just didn't hear that shit BEFORE all this happened. Hindsight is amazing.

I didn't even buy at the top of the bubble. I gained 20% the first four years I lived here. I was smart then. Now I guess I'm a dumbass.

What about the people who can afford what they have? We are the ones getting screwed. I can pay for what I have, not a problem. BUT now I'm not so excited paying for what I have because it lost a huge amount of value. If you buy a new car you expect that, but with a house in a good part of town, not so much...