walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[HairOfTheDog]

The defense crap with trying to get the cell pics in reminds me of the bad old days with rape trials. The victim would have her entire life dissected, including the clothes she was wearing, her hairstyle, where she was walking and the number of men she had had consensual sexual relations with, ad nauseam. Those pics have no bearing on this case.

Are there any other charges besides Murder 2? Does the jury have the option to convict for Manslaughter?

All of the cell pics and texts are irrelevant and completely prejudicial in my opinion as well. Seriously doubt that Nelson will allow them to be used at trial.

The jury will likely be advised that they can find Zimmerman guilty of the lesser charge of Manslaughter if they don't believe that he was acting in self defense when he killed Trayvon, but they also don't believe beyond reasonable doubt that he acted with "intent to kill" (which is required for Murder 2).

[Cynical Ninja]

T's family and all tried to portray him as an innocent little kid, didn't want any recent photos released or in the paper, check out post 1910

Have you looked around? See how many black kids are running around with their pants hanging off their ass, are in jail, gang members, worship rappers? Yea, I believe most black kids wanna be a thug, pimp, dealer, playa whatthefuckever..If you don't thats fine, but keep an eye on your kids.
So no mask, I own it

Plenty of white boys in jail as well are you going to racially stereotype them?

No I didn't think so.

Zimmerman was a predator and Trayvon was his prey.

Maybe all black youths out at night buying candy deserve running the risk of having a cap put in their ass because after all they are all wannabe thugs right?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I can tell you this because I actually looked it up so its not conjecture or guess work.
In Florida in 2008 the prison population was 73% black and 16% white
The Blacks were something like 23% of the overall free population, whites 60% something.
Of those blacks in prison, 80% or more were in there for black on black crimes.
Stereo typing has very little to do with it, if it walks, quacks and swims its probably a duck.
Most of the white population in prison are white trash or wiggers, not a doubt in my mind.
Zimmerman was an idiot suffering from testosterone poisoning pure and simple.
T was a thug wannabe well on his way to being an actual thug. He responded as thugs do, mindless violence just wailing on Z, no thoughts, no tactics, no intelligence.
Anyone with a brain would have told Z to fuck off and gone on about his way. No, he chose to go all ninja and at least try to beat the shit out of Z. Once that final line was crossed (there were many in this) Z didn't see any other choice other than to shoot.
Not saying its right because clearly it was not, no way in hell I would have responded the way that either one os them did. But, its the way ignorant people respond, escalate, escalate, escalate.

[Jimbone]

It's all fine and dandy, HotD, but I'm on the side with Bone, Six and F.U., and I'm pretty sure they concur that fat Zim is going to walk.

Just to clarify my position... I think if it's a fair trial and the letter of the law is applied, Zimmerman should walk on a 2^nd degree murder charge. However, given the circus surrounding it I'd say he's got a ⁵⁰⁄₅₀ shot at this point.

[ZEROSPHERES]

So in a 'stand you own ground' dispute, he who packs the most fire power or draws and shoots first is the winner by default? No jury can let that happen and no law that protects that conduct should be the 'law of the land'

[Cynical Ninja]

It sounds like a “wild west” law.

Are people going to start having shootouts in the street to settle disputes again like in the good ole days?

[ZEROSPHERES]

It sounds like a “wild west” law.

Are people going to start having shootouts in the street to settle disputes again like in the good ole days?

This already happens in our drug culture and neighborhoods where street drugs are sold. It's the phenomenon that skews USA crime statistics off the charts for our murder rate.

[Duchess]

If they stuck to killing each other I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's all fine and dandy, HotD, but I'm on the side with Bone, Six and F.U., and I'm pretty sure they concur that fat Zim is going to walk.

Just to clarify my position... I think if it's a fair trial and the letter of the law is applied, Zimmerman should walk on a 2^nd degree murder charge. However, given the circus surrounding it I'd say he's got a ⁵⁰⁄₅₀ shot at this point.

Based only on what's available to the public now, 50 / 50 on Murder 2 is about where I stand too, Jim. Hard to prove a state of mind in a case like this, whether it be intent to kill or reasonable fear of great bodily harm/death.

At this time, I think that there's a better chance of George Zimmerman getting convicted of either Murder 2 or Manslaughter than being acquitted.

Those opinions could change a lot in either side's favor once the evidence is laid out and the parties have a chance to state their cases and answer questions in court.

The circus will not impact George's ability to get a fair trial at all, IMO. OJ got a fair trial, Casey Anthony got a fair trial, Jodi Arias got a fair trial, etc...

The jury selection may be more cumbersome than most trials because of the media attention and leaks, same as for the aforementioned defendants and many others. But, the attorneys will impanel a qualified jury and that jury will be sequestered in this case. (And, if O'Mara's motion is granted, they'll also even be able to remain anonymous after trial.) The application of the law won't be affected by what's going on outside the courtroom, IMO.

Hoping that the June 10^th trial date remains in tact; anxious for answers!

[HairOfTheDog]

Today's Pre-trial Hearing

Judge Nelson ruled:
-Trayvon's past records and cell data are excluded from trial.
-Trial will not be delayed - it will start on June 10^th as currently scheduled.
-Request to take jury on field trip to crime scene was denied.

Still pending later ruling:
-Whether the jury will be sequestered (I thought this had already been confirmed, but it's still under consideration).
-Whether the expert voice analysts will be allowed to testify.

[username]

I heard the last bit of the hearing. I'm paraphrasing but the judge gave her ruling and right after O'Mara said "before you decide, judge..." and she said "I already did". Smack down.

[HairOfTheDog]

I heard the last bit of the hearing. I'm paraphrasing but the judge gave her ruling and right after O'Mara said "before you decide, judge..." and she said "I already did". Smack down.

Judge Nelson doesn't mess around.

Zimmerman wasn't at the hearing this morning. The legal analysts are saying that's unusual this close to the trial.

I know I keep repeating this, but really hope Zimmerman testifies so that he can directly answer questions that have arisen from his written statement and interviews. Worried that he's not gonna take the stand and we won't get to hear explanations in his own words.

[HairOfTheDog]

The gag order requested by the prosecution was also denied.

Frye hearings to address voice analysis issues set for June 6^th and 7^th.

Here's an overview of what was denied and what doors were left open, including those for the defense to establish foundation to get in information about THC in Trayvon's system and allegations of past fighting.

http://www.local10.com/news/hearing-unde...index.html

[Midwest Spy]

The gag order requested by the prosecution was also denied.

Frye hearings to address voice analysis issues set for June 6^th and 7^th.

Here's an overview of what was denied and what doors were left open, including those for the defense to establish foundation to get in information about THC in Trayvon's system and allegations of past fighting.

http://www.local10.com/news/hearing-unde...index.html

To me, there's a ton of relevance in Trayvon's recent past (prior to the shooting) AND to Z's 911 call frequency.

Let's examine:

If T had been instigating fights or otherwise acting aggressively in the weeks leading up to the incident, it would obvious lend credibility to Z's story that he was assaulted and then feared for his life. If I understand correctly now, he's no longer going with a SYG defense, but true 'self defense'.

Also, I know that it's been reported that Z had a history of calling 911. Many, many calls if I recall correctly.

If so, how many times had his 'stalking' manner led to a physical/violent confrontation? If the answer is 'zero', again, it would lead me to believe that Z was not the aggressor in this case.

I'll be interested to see what's allowed to be presented.

[Carsman]

I heard the last bit of the hearing. I'm paraphrasing but the judge gave her ruling and right after O'Mara said "before you decide, judge..." and she said "I already did". Smack down.

Judge Nelson doesn't mess around.

Zimmerman wasn't at the hearing this morning. The legal analysts are saying that's unusual this close to the trial.

I know I keep repeating this, but really hope Zimmerman testifies so that he can directly answer questions that have arisen from his written statement and interviews. Worried that he's not gonna take the stand and we won't get to hear explanations in his own words.

Those explanations (if they were to happen) "in his own words", may just do him more harm then good. Being "thought" guilty, can be over shadowed by him unknowingly being led by the prosecutor in to "proving" it.

[HairOfTheDog]

To me, there's a ton of relevance in Trayvon's recent past (prior to the shooting) AND to Z's 911 call frequency.

Let's examine:

If T had been instigating fights or otherwise acting aggressively in the weeks leading up to the incident, it would obvious lend credibility to Z's story that he was assaulted and then feared for his life. If I understand correctly now, he's no longer going with a SYG defense, but true 'self defense'.

Also, I know that it's been reported that Z had a history of calling 911. Many, many calls if I recall correctly.

If so, how many times had his 'stalking' manner led to a physical/violent confrontation? If the answer is 'zero', again, it would lead me to believe that Z was not the aggressor in this case.

I'll be interested to see what's allowed to be presented.

I understand your points, MS.

Keep in mind, if the defense brings in Trayvon's alleged fights, that opens the door wide open for Zimmerman's past arrest for assault and resisting, along with his ex's restraining order against him for violence.

Right now, O'Mara is saying in interviews that he wants to have the stuff on Trayvon to counter de la Rionda if the prosecution gets into Zimmerman's past. Two way street - if one matters, so does the other. Unlike the allegations regarding Trayvon, Zimmerman's past incidents are reflected in court documents however.

The witness 911 calls are almost assuredly in as evidence. The real question is whether the expert voice analysts will be allowed to testify regarding their opinions as to whose voice is heard saying what in the tapes. The prosecution motioned to have the voice analysts admitted. The defense wants them excluded. That's what the Frye hearings will address next week.

ETA: The fact that Zimmerman's past 911 calls may not have included following/stalking, combined with his frustration in the statement "they always get away" which he made on the 911 call the night he killed Trayvon Martin, might just hurt him as much as help him.

[HairOfTheDog]

Those explanations (if they were to happen) "in his own words", may just do him more harm then good. Being "thought" guilty, can be over shadowed by him unknowingly being led by the prosecutor in to "proving" it.

Exactly. If Zimmerman's telling the truth and is believable when crossed examined, his own words on the stand should help him. If not, they're likely to hurt him.

I hope the jury gets to hear Zimmerman tell his story and answer questions about his choices/actions to help them in determining beyond reasonable doubt if self defense was really in play here.

P.s. thanks for keeping your commitment!

[Midwest Spy]

I just pulled this from the CNN commentary:

Gilsharkey >lala Lam • an hour ago
−+
Yup- well, and see I simply cannot understand how some young folks think that wearing diapers and a fake gold chain is somehow cool.

Now, see if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman tracked down Trayvon Martin, shot him like a dog in cold blood, and then punched himself in the face and fell backwards onto the pavement to make it look like self defense, then he ought to be sent to prison. But see on the other hand, if Zimmerman was physically attacked by Martin as he was walking back to his truck and then shot Martin as his head was being slammed against the pavement because he truly feared for his safety, then Zimmerman had every right in the world to shoot Martin, who appears to have been a violent and troubled young man, although the Judge and the entire political machine in the State of Florida seems intent on preventing a soul from knowing any of this.

Now, seems to me that this jury is under enormous political pressure to convict Zimmerman in order to protect their families from thugs, and prevent rioting, but let's just hope sanity prevails, the truth comes out, and justice is served.



Believe it or not, I, Midwest Spy, DO want the truth to come out here.

When I first heard that this had happened, I was truly outraged.

My opinion has changed over time, and I feel that it's simply our justice system giving in to the ACLU and 'sacrificing' GZ so that all the black people around the country will be happy, regardless of the facts.

The fact that the judge is disallowing any pertinent facts about Trayvon seems very odd to me. How could they not be relevant in supporting Z's story?

And, HotD, bring all of Z's past to light as well. If he's truly a criminal, I want him sent to prison.

I'm starting to think Z doesn't stand a chance in this one.

[HairOfTheDog]

Believe it or not, I, Midwest Spy, DO want the truth to come out here.

When I first heard that this had happened, I was truly outraged.

My opinion has changed over time, and I feel that it's simply our justice system giving in to the ACLU and 'sacrificing' GZ so that all the black people around the country will be happy, regardless of the facts.

The fact that the judge is disallowing any pertinent facts about Trayvon seems very odd to me. How could they not be relevant in supporting Z's story?

And, HotD, bring all of Z's past to light as well. If he's truly a criminal, I want him sent to prison.

I'm starting to think Z doesn't stand a chance in this one.

I believe that you want to see the truth come out, MS.

The judge isn't disallowing "pertinent" factors about Trayvon from being presented.

As I understand it, Judge Nelson is preventing past actions and alleged actions attributable to both Zimmerman and Martin from being presented because they aren't pertinent to the night in question (as is commonly the case).

[Duchess]

Believe it or not, I, Midwest Spy, DO want the truth to come out here.

Oh pashaw, you think George was entitled to do what he did. You don't even believe he brought this all on himself. News Flash - he did. If George were confined in the town square I'd go throw rocks at him, the fat, murdering fuck.