walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Yo man, you really need to work on the reading comprehension skills.
In the part of my post that you ignored, I was responding to Adubs suggestion that height and weight indicate that Z should have been on top of the skirmish.
My point is that H&W don't always mean much. You should be able to understand these concepts. In previous posts I came right out and stated that T had no training, no tactics and not much in the way in brains, neither did Z, thats why he is dead.
From Z's version of things, what T did have was surprise, he supposedly jumped Z from behind, that constitutes surprise. I'll spell it out for you, an untrained, uneducated, unskilled attacker can have a good shot at a more qualified opponent If he is able to surprise or attack from behind, got it?
I don't know how tough is, was, I suspect not very. I also do not know how tough T was, also not very, but likely as not, more so that Z.

Got it? Do I need to type slower?

Yo man I think you need to check your reading skills motherfucker.

Let me try and make it as clear as i can for you so it can penetrate that unripened canteloupe you call a brain.

TRAYVON DID NOT JUMP ZIMMERMAN FROM BEHIND OR BY SURPRISE THEY HAD A FACE TO FACE CONFRONTATION AND EXCHANGED WORDS BEFORE THE INCIDENT TOOK PLACE.

Got it? Do i need to type slower fucknut?

Hey Squirril
Keep working on the reading, 9 hrs ago User pointed out that same info and I accepted it and pointed out that the particulars in that point are not all that important.

Your uneducable so I am done with you

[Cynical Ninja]

I hate to say it but the fact Trayvon was black is a very telling factor in this case.

If you switched their races and made Zimmerman the black guy I find it highly unlikely that as many as 48% of those polled would think he was innocent.

There are people out there (and in this thread) that think Trayvon was nothing but a wannabe nigger thug who got what he deserved. And that to me is a seriously fucked up and flawed viewpoint.

[F.U.]

HotD, I wonder if some of our members here at Mock have voted today. I ask that because there are now 975 votes instead of 969.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I don't get involved with many cases, but this one has caught my eye. I have done more reading on this case than I have any other in my life. While reading about it today I found this poll that The Gulitpoll is conducting as to weather or not Z is guilty or not. While I cast my vote in the undecided category, I was surprised at a couple things. 1 is how many people have already made up their minds as to Z's guilt [weather guilty or not]. 2, after seeing the majority of posters here say they thought Z was guilty, the majority of people polled feel he is not guilty. Yess the votes are close and there are less than 1000 votes in that poll, but I still find it interesting.








http://www.guiltpoll.com/2012/05/will-ge...-innocent/




Is George Zimmerman guilty or innocent of murdering Trayvon Martin?

•He's Innocent (48%, 468 Votes)

•He's Guilty (41%, 401 Votes)

•I'm Not Sure (11%, 100 Votes)


Total Voters: 969

Its going to depend on what case is presented to the jury, and what the jury looks like.
As to myself, I think Z initially got the situation started, but he didn't break any laws. He is a D-Bag
T made the worst of the mistakes, he should have kept walking and told to fuck himself. He chose to act like a criminal.
No idea how the trial will end.

[F.U.]

I hate to say it but the fact Trayvon was black is a very telling factor in this case.

If you switched their races and made Zimmerman the black guy I find it highly unlikely that as many as 48% of those polled would think he was innocent.

There are people out there (and in this thread) that think Trayvon was nothing but a wannabe nigger thug who got what he deserved. And that to me is a seriously fucked up and flawed viewpoint.

The race card is alive and doing well OP. It gets played almost daily .

[HairOfTheDog]

HotD, I wonder if some of our members here at Mock have voted today. I ask that because there are now 975 votes instead of 969.

Well, I wanted to understand what you posted, so I had to take the poll to see the results report.

I voted "not sure".

Damn it, you got me working the poll this morning, F.U.

[Duchess]

Anyone have strong opinions as to whether George will testify or not?

I do. Surprise!

I don't think he will testify. Under no circumstances does he want to be cross examined by the prosecution, he has told too many lies and I can totally imagine him floundering under direct cross. As with everything I post that's just my opinion.

My mind has been made up for a long time. I really can't imagine what would come out that could get me to reverse my opinion of George.

[F.U.]

If Z testifies it will be a last resort thing IMO. The way he stumbled on his words in those videos you posted HotD, I just cant see his attorney taking the chance of him playing jump rope with his tongue, unless things look grim for Z.




Duch, ya gotta keep a open mind and realize that the only things we really know about the events of that night is that T is dead and Z shot him. Anything else we think we know is what the media and the race baiters[Sharpton etc] want us to know.

[Cynical Ninja]

Hey Squirril
Keep working on the reading, 9 hrs ago User pointed out that same info and I accepted it and pointed out that the particulars in that point are not all that important.

Your uneducable so I am done with you

Bwahahaha! you think you get a get out of jail free card because of what User said earlier? I don't think so fucknut! You responded directly to me and I reserve the right to reply.

“The particulars in that point are not all that important”? Oh really? You stated numerous times that Martin “jumped” Zimmerman that has been proven 100% conclusively not to be the case based on Zimmermans own testimony. I would say the “particulars” in that “point” were quite important don't you? Eg repeating lies over and over again because you wish they were true?

I am “uneducable” to someone talking out of their arsehole, yes.

Now go flex your keyboard muscles somewhere else meathead.

Oh and by the way? Its “you're” not “your” looks like you are more “uneducable” than me tosspot.

[HairOfTheDog]

Duch, ya gotta keep a open mind and realize that the only things we really know about the events of that night is that T is dead and Z shot him. Anything else we think we know is what the media and the race baiters[Sharpton etc] want us to know.

Keep in mind, F.U., George Zimmerman (to his detriment, imo) went on talk shows to discuss the case, started 2 websites, and it's the defense team that has released all kinds of information (and proven misinformation) to the public over the last 16 months.

A large portion of what's been put out there for the public to see is actually public record from the case and information/opinions/pleas coming from Zimmerman, his defense attorneys (particularly O'Mara who's all over the tv) and George's brother Robert.

[Duchess]

Duch, ya gotta keep a open mind

In the beginning I tried to, I understand how important that is but I am seriously hungup on him following T, I just can't get past that and then when I saw the pix of him so badly beaten that he feared for his life & HAD to shoot I was pretty much decided at that point.

[Cynical Ninja]

Oh OP, you forget that SF is a macho, gun toting, bad ass biker and professionally trained fighting machine. Of course in his case skills and tactic play a bigger role, just like Bruce Lee. On the other hand nigger wannabe thugs don't need any proper attack strategy, especially if they're hopped up on tea and candy.

Gag me with a fucking spoon already.

Yeah of course it completely slipped my mind.

Is it a bird?!, is it plane?! No its sixfootersez to the fucking rescue!

Slow.

Hand.

Clap.

[F.U.]

Duch, ya gotta keep a open mind

In the beginning I tried to, I understand how important that is but I am seriously hungup on him following T, I just can't get past that and then when I saw the pix of him so badly beaten that he feared for his life & HAD to shoot I was pretty much decided at that point.

That's the thing Duch. We can say if WE would have feared for our life, but we cant say if Z had feared for his life. Maybe he was a pussy from way back, maybe he got beat up by his dad, brother, or class mates and he was one of those scared all the time kinda guys. That could play a part in determining if he was actually afraid he could be caused great bodily harm or even death. After all that is all he would have to prove to make it legal under a SYG stance.



As far as him following T I really don't see a problem with it and I don't feel the dispatcher did either, that is until right at the end of the phone conversation with Z and when he was told not to follow he returned, or at least was in the process of returning to his car and thats when the fight began. Had the dispatcher told him to stay in the car instead of asking him question after question I would feel differently.

[Cynical Ninja]

The race card is alive and doing well OP. It gets played almost daily .

I just get the distinct feeling that if zimmerman had been a jerry curl nigger and Trayvon had been a cracker with a Justin Bieber haircut a lot of people would have been clamouring for zimmerman to get the needle.

[F.U.]

Keep in mind, F.U., George Zimmerman (to his detriment, imo) went on talk shows to discuss the case, started 2 websites, and it's the defense team that has released all kinds of information (and proven misinformation) to the public over the last 16 months.

A large portion of what's been put out there for the public to see is actually public record from the case and information/opinions/pleas coming from Zimmerman, his defense attorneys (particularly O'Mara who's all over the tv) and George's brother Robert.

I did not pay that much attention to this case when if first happened, but I do feel that all that air time on both side will make this a very hard case to figure out. If both sides would have just shut the hell up things would be much better off right now.

[F.U.]

The race card is alive and doing well OP. It gets played almost daily .

I just get the distinct feeling that if zimmerman had been a jerry curl nigger and Trayvon had been a cracker with a Justin Bieber haircut a lot of people would have been clamouring for zimmerman to get the needle.

Yes, it works both ways. Since T was black the blacks, and a lot of whites that want to prove they are not racist, are yelling string Z up.


If T was white, the whites as well as blacks that have something to prove would have ben screaming, get a rope.

[Duchess]

As far as him following T I really don't see a problem with it

I have a huge problem with that, huge. Very few people are getting this - NW people are not supposed to follow anyone, ever. NW people are not supposed to be armed, ever. These are rules that must be adhered to and George felt he was above that, that rules didn't apply to him.

George didn't like that T was wearing a hoodie, it affected how George perceived T, George's immediate thought, because of that hoodie, was that T was up to no good. When first asked what race T was George said he didn't know, he couldn't see him yet he felt comfortable enough to say "I think he might be on drugs". What the fuck is up with that? You can't see what color someone is but you can determine they are on drugs? Please.

[HairOfTheDog]

Keep in mind, F.U., George Zimmerman (to his detriment, imo) went on talk shows to discuss the case, started 2 websites, and it's the defense team that has released all kinds of information (and proven misinformation) to the public over the last 16 months.

A large portion of what's been put out there for the public to see is actually public record from the case and information/opinions/pleas coming from Zimmerman, his defense attorneys (particularly O'Mara who's all over the tv) and George's brother Robert.

I did not pay that much attention to this case when if first happened, but I do feel that all that air time on both side will make this a very hard case to figure out. If both sides would have just shut the hell up things would be much better off right now.

I understand. Just pointing out that we know a lot more than the fact that George shot Trayvon and Trayvon is dead - from public records, police interviews, etc...

Also, those that have followed the case and formed an opinion do not have only one side's take to consider. There's been as much or more released from the defense side.

On the plus side, the judge is very matter-of-fact, by-the-book, and well regarded. Her jury questions will be good ones and both sides' attorneys well understand the importance of getting qualified objective jurors impaneled.

Evidence and testimony presented at trial will determine their verdict. What they see/hear will not include irrelevant information tossed out (by either side) simply to influence the court of public opinion.

P.s. this will be the first time I've watched a case with a jury of 6 instead of 12. Wondering if it will have any impact on deliberation time, etc..

[F.U.]

6 instead of 12 might make things interesting HotD. I mean look at us here. We have people in all 3 camps, Guilty, Not guilty and Undecided. Unless the guilty can sway the undecided their way I think Z will walk.

[HairOfTheDog]

6 instead of 12 might make things interesting HotD. I mean look at us here. We have people in all 3 camps, Guilty, Not guilty and Undecided. Unless the guilty can sway the undecided their way I think Z will walk.

You might be right about him walking.

Just based on the evidence and formal statements that I've reviewed, if I had to place a bet, I'd put money on a manslaughter conviction.

Why? Precisely what you stated upthread. State of mind is hard to prove.

Even if George can't get out from under his inconsistencies and the jury believes that he's an exaggerator or liar, that doesn't mean that they'll automatically assume that he had "intent" to kill Trayvon. The state may have hard time proving that was his state of mind, beyond reasonable doubt.

Likewise, I could see the jury looking at the circumstances and, even if they believed George's version of events, having a problem believing that he made every reasonable effort to exhaust all other options before shooting Trayvon and/or that his state of mind was consistent with fear of great bodily harm/death. Self defense requires both, under the law. The extent of George's injuries and the fact that he never chose to tell Trayvon that he was NW or that the police were already en route may well allow the state to dismantle George's claim of legal self defense.

Like you though, my opinion regarding the most likely verdict, and the truth of what actually went down that night, could change substantially depending on what's presented at trial.