Youth and Alcohol

[Riotgear]

After careful consideration I've decided to get my kids and their friends drunk and go to a funeral.

I'm at a water park with 5 kids. I might just shoot myself and give you that funeral opportunity.

Now I know you're crazy. I'd pawn that particular job off on someone else, anyone else for sure.

[thekid65]

The tragedy of that young boy potentially drowning after being given beer by his stepfather made me think yet again about youth and alcohol. That boy's story aside...

would you ever give your underage kid alcohol? Starting at the age of 12 or so, my parents used to give us one glass of wine at special occasions (birthdays, Christmas etc.). I don't know why and I wouldn't offer it to my kids. I gather it's fairly common in Europe though.

What about when they're 16, 17...? I want my kids to know they can call me if they ever need a ride (either because they're impaired or they're with someone who's impaired). If I offer that and then punish them for it, I don't think they'll call again so I feel like I'd have to stay quiet. Is that condoning it?

I had a friend who hosted a high school graduation party for her kids (she has twins as well). She served alcohol to them and according to her, she told the other parents that there would be alcohol and they needed to arrange transportation for their kids. I can't imagine hosting anything like that but I also doubt that my kids will still be drink free at the age of 18. I'd love it if they were but...highly unlikely. I wouldn't out and out provide them with alcohol though.

Thoughts?

Alcohol is the most destructive and life ruining drug on this planet, period. Would you lay out a line of coke for your 12 year old? No, methinks not. Like others have posted, I too was allowed a glass of wine at special dinners (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc), my Pops shared a beer with me around age 13 or so..and quite honestly, I remember not being too impressed at all (perhaps due to the fact that it was a Hamms).

During my stint in rehab, almost all of the alcoholics related stories of their youth, and the common binder was how prevalent alcohol was in their families. Most of them had memories of being very young (less than 10 years old), and their parents would have them serve and clean-up drinks at their parties.

"Oh look, how cute, little Johnny is bringing us drinks"

They didnt notice that when Johnny saw how much fun the adults were having when they were getting trashed, that little Johnny was finishing the leftover drinks in the kitchen after he had cleaned up the glasses. I heard that shit over, and over, and over. It really was a common theme.

If I had a child, no way in hell I would condone him/her drinking before the legal age. To host a party for underage drinking tells me that a parent has absolutely no control over their child, as they always justify it by saying "their going to get drunk anyways, so I'd rather have them do it at home". That's just plain crap, IMO.

Funny....a year or so ago, my response would have been totally different.

/Soapbox

[Duchess]

I believe that alcohol is destructive & life ruining for those that can't control their drinking but to say that a parent who hosts a graduation party where there is a keg of beer has no control over their kid is ridiculous & overly dramatic.

Someone who grows up to be an alcoholic is going to be one whether they have their first drink at 10, 16 or 21. The age is irrelevant when it comes to the disease.

[thekid65]

Someone who grows up to be an alcoholic is going to be one whether they have their first drink at 10, 16 or 21. The age is irrelevant when it comes to the disease.

While that may be true (lots of debate on that one), as a parent, it's completely irresponsible to:

#1. Condone underage drinking

#2. Break the law yourself by providing the alcohol.

So, Duchess..since you're a proponent of breaking the law, where would you stop it? Would you allow illegal drugs to also be consumed at your kids party? And if not, why?

[Duchess]

So, Duchess..since you're a proponent of breaking the law, where would you stop it? Would you allow illegal drugs to also be consumed at your kids party? And if not, why?

You're being a drama hag & making a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't have a problem with a keg of beer at a graduation party when the parents are there to supervise and the other parents have given their permission for their kids to be there. Don't make this out to be more than what I've stated. You have an over the top view of this because you have your own issues with alcohol.

[thekid65]

Not so. You didnt answer the question now, did you. Should I pose it again, or are you going to continue to deflect?

[thekid65]

Actually, let me make a question a bit more clear...since you're struggling and all. I would wager that marijuana has caused far less damage to mankind (from use, only) than alcohol. So, if at your kids party...everyone broke out the bongs and started smoking...would you condone that..and would you also supply the herb?

[Duchess]

Not so. You didnt answer the question now, did you. Should I pose it again, or are you going to continue to deflect?

Actually, let me make a question a bit more clear...since you're struggling and all. I would wager that marijuana has caused far less damage to mankind (from use, only) than alcohol. So, if at your kids party...everyone broke out the bongs and started smoking...would you condone that..and would you also supply the herb?

I'm neither struggling nor deflecting. I've stated my opinion, you're the one that isn't grasping it.

You've taken my comment & put a spin on it in order to make it pertain to drug use, that's not what this discussion is about.

[thekid65]

You are starting to get the point (besides the one on the top of your head) that I'm trying to make here. And realizing that you have no answer, other than the fact that you're proving that we, as a society, have a double standard. You simply have no comeback...it's OK to admit that.

So now you're saying alcohol isnt a drug?

[Duchess]

You are starting to get the point (besides the one on the top of your head) that I'm trying to make here. And realizing that you have no answer, other than the fact that you're proving that we, as a society, have a double standard. You simply have no comeback...it's OK to admit that.

So now you're saying alcohol isnt a drug?

Bwahahaha! Starting to get the point? My stance hasn't changed from my original post that you choose to comment on. *snicker*

[pspence]

After careful consideration I've decided to get my kids and their friends drunk and go to a funeral.

I'm at a water park with 5 kids. I might just shoot myself and give you that funeral opportunity.

Get in your bathing suit and join them user!

[thekid65]

You are starting to get the point (besides the one on the top of your head) that I'm trying to make here. And realizing that you have no answer, other than the fact that you're proving that we, as a society, have a double standard. You simply have no comeback...it's OK to admit that.

So now you're saying alcohol isnt a drug?

Bwahahaha! Starting to get the point? My stance hasn't changed from my original post that you choose to comment on. *snicker*

I've asked you a couple of very simple questions to fully understand your POV, and then asked you to explain your answers. As usual, when you see the idiocy of your ways, you deflect, avoid, and act like the fool that you are. So, I'll try one last time, lets see if you can grasp the concept.

1. You've stated that you have no issues with a parent supplying underage children alcohol at a party. Would you have an issue with that same parent, or would you yourself, also be OK with supplying marijuana at the party? If so, that's cool, at least you would be a consistent fool. If not, why?

2. Do you think alcohol is a drug?

[Duchess]

I don't care what people do with their kids because I don't care about them or their children. So...whatever they choose to do is fine by me, it doesn't affect me or my life & I've been pretty open in saying I just don't give a shit about people outside of my own life. I simply don't care. *shrugs*

I wouldn't smoke pot or drink with minors. I value what I have & have no desire to be sued.

No, I don't think I view alcohol as a drug, I can say that because I'm not a weak minded individual who lets something control me. I waffle back & forth on even thinking of alcoholism as a disease. I think people who lose everything because they are powerless over alcohol are weak. They are flawed.

[pspence]

I wished I had been exposed to a thread like this when mine were at users kids ages so I could have been prepared better. Very interesting and thought provoking. I love me some mock!

[thekid65]

Finally, a few answers. Albeit I still wonder, if you had a child, if you'd be OK with him/her attending a party where the parents provided alcohol. I too dont have a child, and dont think I'd be OK with that.

As to your last sentence, interesting. I dunno, if you're ever wanting to delve deeper into whether addiction, in itself is a disease, you might find Pleasure Unwoven very interesting. Here's a brief clip.

[Duchess]

Finally, a few answers. Albeit I still wonder, if you had a child, if you'd be OK with him/her attending a party where the parents provided alcohol. I too dont have a child, and dont think I'd be OK with that.

Straight up, if the kid was like I was at that age, then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

Kid, this has been my stance all along, I've stated it a few times now. Nothing at all has changed in regards to my opinion of this. You are either not paying attention or you are deliberately being obtuse, it's one or the other.

[thekid65]

Not being obtuse at all. You're statement about not viewing alcohol as a drug shows your complete lack of education on this subject. Fuck, even when I was drinking I knew that simple fact. Being sober hasnt changed my POV on that at all. It is a mind/mood altering substance..the classic definition of a drug, is it not? Whether it's legal or not does not change the definition.

When you were challenged as to whether you'd be OK with providing herb at a party (after you said you had no problem with booze being provided), you seemed to backpedal a bit, and avoided the question.

No, I was not being obtuse, just trying to get you to think about what you were typing. But I understand now, as you made it quite clear when you stated you didnt think alcohol was a drug. Your POV makes sense to me now, albeit I disagree.

[Duchess]

I don't backpedal...ever. I have no reason to, I always own my words and I'll continue to do. My stance hasn't changed a bit & I stand by my original post, nothing has changed, Kid.

Weak minded individuals become addicted. Those that can't control themselves blame their addictions for the problems they have. That's a cop out.

[thekid65]

Weak minded individuals become addicted.

So, do those that overcome an addiction (to anything, not just drugs/alcohol)...which many, many, many have....are they still weak minded? Or do they magically become "strong minded" after overcoming an addiction?

You really should educate yourself on addiction, and then make an informed statement...not just a preconceived notion based on perception alone.

[Duchess]

So, do those that overcome an addiction (to anything, not just drugs/alcohol)...which many, many, many have....are they still weak minded? Or do they magically become "strong minded" after overcoming an addiction?

You really should educate yourself on addiction, and then make an informed statement...not just a preconceived notion based on perception alone.

Why would I want to educate myself on addiction? Knowing any more than I already know won't change my opinion.

Of course they don't magically become strong minded, that's just dumb...even for you. They become sober enough to exhibit some self control, some will power. They are only one drink or one drug away from being right back where they were.