GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Midwest Spy]

12 years old, and already felt like his life was ruined.

When I was in 9^th grade, we had a classmate commit suicide. 15 years old, and felt that his life was that miserable.

He was definitely a loner (from the day I remember meeting him). However, I don't remember him being picked on. There could have been things going on at home too that pushed him past the line of no return.

My little brother was friends with a kid who hung himself as a sophomore.

Very tragic. More so when people feel like they have to take others with them.

[QueenBee]

There was a threat at an area college after the Nevada shooting.



[/i]
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By: Brett Davidsen

Police and the FBI are investigating a disturbing message left on a bathroom wall at Keuka College Tuesday. The handwritten message made references to the shooting at a Nevada school earlier this week and vowed the Keuka would “have its day as well.”

Students were notified about the incident, but parents were not.

I-Team 10 spoke with the sheriff and he says they have had an officer at the college all day Wednesday working with campus security to try to figure out who's responsible for the threat. He says while they are taking it seriously, they are not worried that the message scrawler will act.

The message was found Tuesday morning here inside ball hall on the lakeside campus of Keuka College. A couple students noticed the writing on a wall inside the men's room. The message appears to reference Monday's middle school shooting in Nevada in which a student opened fire, killing a teacher and injuring two children.

The message says, “Yesterday, the school in Nevada had its day. Soon Keuka will have its day as well. One of these days, I will get pushed to that point and in return be famous.” The message ends with a quote often attributed to Adolf Hitler, “It is not truth that matters, but victory.”[i]

Doug Lippencott. Keuka College Communications Director, said, "These things are always a little unsettling when they come out. But again, there was nothing specific, no specific threat. But nonetheless, the writing would have us believe that it's something that we should take seriously."

The college issued an email to students about what was discovered and attached a photo of the scrawling.

Lippencott said, "We wanted to let them know there was an incident, but more so, we were looking for their help. Maybe somebody had seen the handwriting or knew of somebody, something that was going on."

I-Team 10 wanted to know what students were feeling after getting the school's email.

Chinyere Ukwu, Keuka College student, said, "I was terrified. I was really scared because it's not like you know if the threat is real because this type of stuff happens all the time."

Courtney Nojeim, Keuka College, said, "It was kind of scary, but at the same time, I wasn't too concerned."

At least one person did express concern on the college's web page that parents weren't notified of the incident. Keuka College does have an early alert system that sends emails and texts to parents or students who sign up, but the system wasn't activated for this incident. Keuka's communications director says it is because the threat was not specific.

Lippencott said, “We feel that we thought more overriding that was we didn't want to create a panic on campus. Again, we have a plan in place when there is a real threat to somebody, and again, if you start sending out emails every time something happens on campus that's not a threat, people aren't going to pay attention to it."

The sheriff says the college had a similar situation occur last spring, where someone left a threatening message on a men's room wall. But investigators do not believe the two incidents are related.

[HairOfTheDog]

Another kid, another gun left laying around, another funeral



Melissa Ann Ringhardt, 19, (pictured above) was charged Tuesday in the death of 5-year-old John Read, The Orange Leader reports. Ringhardt lives in Vidor, Texas with the boy's family, who left him and a 6-month-old child in her care Monday afternoon, according to NBC News.

Orange County deputies say the teen put her semiautomatic .40-caliber handgun on a coffee table before going to take a nap. When she awoke, she found the 5-year-old lying on the floor in the living room with a gunshot wound to the head.

The home does not have a landline phone and Ringhardt's phone was out of minutes, so she carried Read to his grandparent's home a block away, where they called police.

Although deputies said Read's death was an accident, Ringhardt was charged with abandoning or endangering a child.

"People have the right to bear arms and with that comes great responsibility," Chief Deputy Clint Hodgkinson told KFDM. "If someone somehow puts a firearm in a place where a child is able to get that weapon, you've committed an offense."
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So many of these young kids have been told over and over not to touch the guns when unsupervised and have had "safety training" by their parents/guardians.

Doesn't matter. Little kids are little kids and they're gonna pick things up and play around with them. Glad to see the adults being prosecuted for endangerment in more of these cases recently.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Another dumbass, If you have weapons in the house you should by all means teach them not to touch them, BUT, you should Also not leave the fucking thing laying around as temptation. This cow apparently left the gun laying out in plain site and went somewhere else to take a nap while she was supposed to be watching the kids. WTF?

[HairOfTheDog]

This 13 year old, Andy Lopez, was shot 7 times by police in Santa Rosa, California. He died at the scene.



He was carrying a plastic pellet gun fashioned to look like an AK47 when police spotted him from behind.

The officers involved say he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and they didn't realize he was a kid.

According to the two officers, they told him to drop the weapon and turn around, but he instead lifted the gun replica when he turned around. A witness reportedly verifies the sequence of events which transpired in 10 seconds.

If that's what happened, tragic that the kid didn't just drop the fake gun. Still, 8 shots? There's no way he could have been firing back with a toy.

The officer who shot Lopez is a 24 year veteran; his partner (who didn't shoot) is a rookie. They are on the standard administrative leave pending investigation.

Story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5...p-7-times/

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Cops don't do one shot to the leg like in the westerns. Deadly force mens deadly. You shoot to kill or you don't shoot.
With all thats going on in the world you just don't run around on the street with something that looks like an automatic weapon, bad choices make bad things happen.
I seriously doubt the cop was thinking about killing a kid, he was doing his job. You see a guy walking down the street with a weapon out like that they Have to respond to it.
Bad situation.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I get that, Six.

Then you gotta look at how much sense it makes to get incensed about school authorities being so adamant and expelling kids for bringing toy weapons to school if these kinds of things can be anticipated today, right?

Definitely a bad situation.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Yeah, I get that, Six.

Then you gotta look at how much sense it makes to get incensed about school authorities being so adamant and expelling kids for bringing toy weapons to school if these kinds of things can be anticipated today, right?

Definitely a bad situation.

True, but I think the schools go way to far. Bringing in a toy gun, yes they should take some action, suspension maybe, notes to parents, something.
But then here the expulsions for having a Picture of a gun, T-Shirt, pointing a finger..whatever. Thats just fucking stupid.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's a sad situation when recent history deems it necessary to ban weapon replicas from schools because it's hard to tell the difference sometimes and too much shit has gone down with kids having real ones.

But, yeah, banning shirts and pictures and that type of thing is going overboard to me as well.

My favorite dumb-ass suspension was the one against the little kid who bit his Pop-tart into a shape resembling a gun. Still makes me laugh to think about it.

[F.U.]

HotD must agree with you on the banning of the replicas. They are very hard to distinguish from the real deal. Here are a few pics I had just taken. Can you pick out the real from the replicas?

[F.U.]

I forgot to add. These all are or represent differnt calibers of revolvers, so the size of the hole in the barrel and cylinder will not be a clue as to weather or not they are real or replica.
Now they are old school and not as intimidating as todays semiautos, but would anyone not be worried if they had anyone of those pointed at you?

[HairOfTheDog]

I can't tell the difference, F.U.

Whoever produced the replicas/toys did a great job.

Hell, I've seen some play guns that are sold in the toy stores that could pass for real from a distance.

(I think toy guns are supposed to have orange distinguishing indicators on them, but apparently those can be removed and I'm not sure if that indicator would be readily visible in a lot of situations anyway.)

[F.U.]

That is why I agree with many on the banning of replicas in schools. Those replicas in my pics can be purchased on line for 50$ +/- by anyone and those are just a few examples that I have. They also do semiauto replicas that are just as close.
Also, like many I disagree with the banning of shirts, fingers, or even poptart guns.


ETA, In my first pic, if you look close at the loading port right behind the cylinder, you can see the appropriate ammo or replica ammo sitting there. Yes these replicas/toys even have replica ammo and can be loaded with it, have the hammer cocked into the ready to fire position and when the trigger is pulled the hammer will fall, just like the real thing. The only difference is the dont go bang. Even as big a gun guy as I am, if someone would be stupid enough to pull one of those replicas on me, I dont know if I could tell if it was fake in the heat of the moment or in a poor lighting situation.

[HairOfTheDog]

Those damn Pop-tarts are a real menace to society!!

I've read several crime stories over the last couple of years where perps robbed individuals, stores, and at least one bank - and, when they were caught, the guns they'd used in the crimes turned out to be toys. Security guards were even present at some of those crime scenes.

There really are some realistic looking toy guns floating around.

It's always sad to me when a kid with a toy gun gets shot by cops (or anyone) by mistake - doesn't seem to happen too frequently, but it does happen. I feel the same sadness when kids get a hold of loaded guns and kill themselves or others mistaking the gun for a play thing.

The best way to minimize those accidents, IMO, is through adults using common sense and understanding the mindset of children and society when it comes to guns. I wouldn't let my 12 or 13 year old nephew walk down to the liquor store for soda carrying one of those great replicas - people often expect the worst of others and presume/react accordingly. Seems silly to have to control where a toy gun can be carried, but that's better than risking a fatal mistake being made and losing a kid.

[F.U.]

One problem HotD is that age is hard to tell anymore. Toy or real is even harder to tell. Then throw in a dash of the violence we see in the youth of today and a pinch of piss poor parenting and it all mixes up into a big pot of disaster.
I cant say I would hesitate to draw and fire if any person younger person or not, should pull one of those replicas out on me. I wont be standing there looking at the "weapon" trying to tell if it is real or not. Looking at the person and trying to figure out their age. Or trying to figure out what is going through their heads, what kind of person they really are, or what kind of day they are having. If someone pulls something on me that looks like the 'weapons' in my pics I will be the one going home to my family. In the heat of the moment things happen real fast.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Got to agree, when someone pulls down on you with a weapon, or what looks like a weapon, that's not the time to get all analytical. That time is past and you could get dead in the next few seconds. Male, female, young old, cripple or crazy, guns are great equalizers.

[F.U.]

OK, just for those who are wondering the real from the replica.
From the top down they are...
#, Brand, Caliber, model
1. Hawes, 44 mag, Western Marshel, [real],
2. Dennix, 45 long colt, Colt peacemaker,[replica],
3. Dennix, 45 long colt, Colt Army [replica],
4. Rohm, 22 cal, single six, [real],
5. Ruger, 22 cal, single six, [real],
6 Dennix, 45 long colt, colt peacemaker, [replica]

[Maggot]

I was just gonna say the blued guns were real. I thought 4 was a fake

[HairOfTheDog]

One problem HotD is that age is hard to tell anymore. Toy or real is even harder to tell. Then throw in a dash of the violence we see in the youth of today and a pinch of piss poor parenting and it all mixes up into a big pot of disaster.
I cant say I would hesitate to draw and fire if any person younger person or not, should pull one of those replicas out on me. I wont be standing there looking at the "weapon" trying to tell if it is real or not. Looking at the person and trying to figure out their age. Or trying to figure out what is going through their heads, what kind of person they really are, or what kind of day they are having. If someone pulls something on me that looks like the 'weapons' in my pics I will be the one going home to my family. In the heat of the moment things happen real fast.

Yeah, that's why I'd rather my teenaged nephews, both of whom are near 6 feet and almost always wear ear phones when they're walking somewhere, not carry any realistic-looking toy guns. They don't have to "pull" on somebody for somebody to presume them to be a threat.

According to witnesses, the deputies called out once for Lopez to drop the gun. The boy started to turn around and was shot at 8 times; 7 of those bullets hitting Lopez. Santa Rose PD statements are consistent with those accounts. It doesn't appear that Lopez drew the toy gun on the cops or anything, he just turned in their direction, at which point the deputy says he feared for his life.

Lopez is described as a good kid and promising student by his teachers and those who knew him. FBI is investigating the incident. Authorities are promising a transparent investigation in response to all of the protestors.

Lopez was killed because he was carrying a toy while walking down the street; there were no other suspicious elements about him or his activity. Impossible to know if he heard the deputies clearly the one time they called out before the senior deputy fired at him 8 times and shot him to death on the street.

I don't know if the cop who shot him did anything wrong; could just be a tragic convergence. Will see where the investigation leads.

The Santa Rosa PD released this evidence photo of the toy rifle that Lopez was carrying.

[HairOfTheDog]

Sheriff's deputy identified - was he prepared and appropriate, or a fatal accident waiting to happen?

The officer who shot 13 year old Andy Lopez has been identified.

Officials confirmed on Monday Erick Gelhaus, 48, was the Sonoma County sheriff's deputy who mistook Andy Lopez's fake AK-47 for a real rifle before he fatally shot the teen last Tuesday just outside Santa Rosa.



He's an Iraq vet, gun enthusiast, avid hunter and also also taught officers to shoot. According to an LE-spokesperson, he'd never before shot at anyone in his 24 year LE career (though he reportedly accidentally shot himself several years back when frisking a juvenile).

Gelhaus offered this advice to SWAT members in a piece he wrote for a gun rights mag back in 2008; it's being featured in a lot of media reports today:

'Today is the day you may need to kill someone in order to go home,' he wrote. 'If you cannot turn on the 'mean gene' for yourself, who will? If you find yourself in an ambush, in the kill zone, you need to turn on that mean gene.'

'Taking some kind of action - any kind of action - is critical. If you shut down (physically, psychologically, or both) and stay in the kill zone, bad things will happen to you. You must take some kind of action.'

Unsurprisingly, gun enthusiasts are commenting in support of Gelhaus's actions and statements, while many others disagree and believe that those same actions and statements indicate that Gelhaus was predisposed to make a fatal mistake.

New reports of witness statements claiming that the officers continued to shoot Lopez several times after he'd hit the ground were also released today; all need to be looked into as part of the ongoing investigation.