GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[HairOfTheDog]

...we only hear about the instances where guns are used in an unlawful way.

That's only true if you don't read a variety of news sources.

I was gonna post this in the "Crimes Quashed by Citizens" or "Justified Shooting" thread, but I'll post it here instead.

From the Washington Times today:
A 14-year-old boy whose father was murdered six years ago says he was protecting his grandmother Tuesday after he fatally shot a man who was trying to break into his grandparents’ home in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Anthony Hernandez was visiting his grandparents, George and Anna Marie Wyant, when he said he heard a loud bang at the back of the house around 5:15 p.m. The suspect, 18-year-old Isai Delcid, was allegedly trying to break into a back window.

“Then I went and I got the gun,” Anthony told a local CBS affiliate. “I told the guy — and I said who is that, and the person hit [the window] again.”

“Then I said I have a gun, and they hit it another time. And they hit it again. I said stop and the guy broke through. And that’s when I shot,” he told WBT Radio in a telephone interview.

A few minutes later, Mrs. Wyant told a 911 operator what had happened.

“The man was breaking into the window,” she said in the call, the Charlotte Observer reported. “He was halfway in the window. My grandson told him to stop and get out of here, and he didn’t so my grandson shot him. … Somebody just broke in the house, and we shot him.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014...z3MGnxmWwr

[Midwest Spy]

Sounds like that report turned out to be a hoax.

Where did you read that? NBC10's website doesn't indicate it was a hoax at all.

Philly ABC 6 from Tuesday said the police had wasted resources on the supposed 7:00pm carjacking.

Just reporting what I read, ma'am.

[Duchess]

That's only true if you don't read a variety of news sources.

MS only reads one source.

Thanks for the story. I like reading about people who take an active role in their own safety.

I totally understand why people wouldn't want guns in their home. I get it but I also know that people are going to die because they either count on 911 or think it won't happen to them.

The spree killer this week freaked me out pretty good. It looked so easy to break into homes in the middle of the night and kill people. They were like sitting ducks. It's all over and he is dead but I'm still thinking about it.

[HairOfTheDog]

The spree killer this week freaked me out pretty good. It looked so easy to break into homes in the middle of the night and kill people. They were like sitting ducks. It's all over and he is dead but I'm still thinking about it.

People are in big trouble when they're asleep in their beds and a disturbed violent individual who knows them and their routines has a loaded gun and is hell-bent on shooting and hacking them to death. Period.

Do you know if the sitting ducks did not have arms in their homes? I don't.

[Duchess]

Do you know if the sitting ducks did not have arms in their homes? I don't.

No, I don't know.

The ex for sure should have had a weapon. She knew he was coming for her. The neighbor heard the glass breaking so she would have had ample opportunity to arm herself.

Look, all this is easy for me to say. I've never been in any kind of situation like that. For all I know I could freeze, be like a deer caught in headlights and die because of it.

[Cutz]

Don't worry Duch... if you hear someone breaking into your house, that's just MS hoping to sneak some nudie pics.

[HairOfTheDog]

Look, all this is easy for me to say. I've never been in any kind of situation like that. For all I know I could freeze, be like a deer caught in headlights and die because of it.

If you had a gun in your home, I hope you'd be able to do whatever it takes to defend yourself if the need arose. But, if you were sleeping and someone with military training who knew you and your home sneaked in and shot you in the face, having that gun wouldn't or couldn't have helped you any. That may be what happened to the ex-wife; remains to be revealed.

Anyway, more about Bradley Stone is being released:

Snip:
A Department of Veterans Affairs psychiatrist cleared former Marine Bradley Stone of suicidal or homicidal tendencies just a week before he went on a killing spree, slaying six others and then taking his own life.

He had a 100 percent disability rating at the VA for post-traumatic stress disorder and had seen his psychiatrist just one week prior to the incident, a VA spokesman told The Washington Times on Wednesday.

“He met with his psychiatrist on December 8^th at the Coatesville [Veterans Affairs Medical Center], and the provider noted that at the time of the evaluation, the veteran was without any suicidal or homicidal ideation,” the VA statement said.

“The Department of Veterans Affairs expresses our heartfelt condolences to the victims killed in this tragic incident. We are committed to providing the highest quality health care to veterans,” the VA statement said.

Mental health care at the VA came under fire as part of the wait list scandal that broke earlier this year. Investigators found cases of veterans committing suicide while waiting for an appointment with a mental health provider or just after leaving an appointment at the VA.

The VA said it is currently conducting a comprehensive review of his care. Stone had been rated 100 percent disabled since October 2010 and was receiving more than $3,000 a month in benefits, the VA said.

Stone joined the Marine Corps Reserve in 2002. He served as an artillery meteorological man, helping to accurately direct artillery fire based on weather.

Stone deployed to Iraq in April 2008 but returned home after serving only two months overseas when his wife experienced health problems, NBC Philadelphia reported.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014...z3MHBDxZ19

[Midwest Spy]

Did Stone see any combat? I doubt he did. Wonder what his disability was? Sounds like he was moving like a ninja slaying six people in 3 locations in darkness.

Milking the taxpayers for $3K/mo. in disability benefits. Wow.

I wonder if his ex was going after more of his money and that's what prompted the murders?

[username]

I understand your argument and think it has merit.

What do you think about the implementation of strong and consistent gun control in all states, as an alternative to banning all semi-automatics? Not far enough?

I mean, the ease with which individuals can legally acquire arms (semi-automatics or any other arms) and the number of unassociated people packing them flies in the face of "well regulated militia", IMO.

Strong and consistent gun control/access to purchasing firearms across all states would be a start. If we aren't willing to ban semi-automatic weapons, at minimum acquiring one should involve a significantly more rigorous process than any that currently exist to obtain a hand gun.

First it was the fully automatic, now its the semi-automatic, next it will be handguns then rifles then shotguns then black powder.
Semi automatics are not fully auto they work by every time you pull the trigger a bullet comes out. people have no clue and are gun shy. Its city training that does that and media hysteria that perpetuates it.

Firstest, I really hate the slippery slope argument. I imagine most folks do NOT support banning all firearms (I don't support that). However, I imagine the number of people that would support a ban on semi-automatic weapons is much, much higher.

Secondest, you can slippery slope the argument in the other direction which is just as ludicrous. Where does it stop? Are we all entitled to own RPG's or weaponry that is always equivalent to LE and/or our military? I think NOT, Mr. Powder Head.

[Duchess]

Did Stone see any combat? I doubt he did. Wonder what his disability was? Sounds like he was moving like a ninja slaying six people in 3 locations in darkness.

I've read at least a couple different things regarding this. Two soldiers who say they served with him said he never saw combat and that his PTSD resulting from war was a crock. I also read another man say Stone was a highly decorated vet.

[HairOfTheDog]

Did Stone see any combat? I doubt he did. Wonder what his disability was? Sounds like he was moving like a ninja slaying six people in 3 locations in darkness.

Milking the taxpayers for $3K/mo. in disability benefits. Wow.

I wonder if his ex was going after more of his money and that's what prompted the murders?

I've seen conflicting accounts regarding Stone's military duty, like Duchess.

I kinda doubt he was ever engaged in physical combat too and tend to believe the two Marines who trained, deployed and served in Iraq with him -- they say he had an unstressful desk job and was always fighting with his then-wife, Nichole. I don't know how he managed to get $3,260 a month for years based on a PTSD diagnosis though. Something seems to be missing from the story.

Here are some new details/confirmations:

The suicide scene:
Strewn around the body of Montgomery County mass murderer Bradley Stone were two prescription pill bottles, a machete, a double-bladed ax and an energy drink bottle with white powder around the lip.

Any of the items "could have contributed" to the death of the ex-Marine Corps reservist who killed his former wife and five of her family members in an early morning rampage Monday, Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman said. But, Ferman added, the precise cause of his death won't be known until all post-mortem tests are complete.

No suicide note was found.

Hofman said Wednesday that the only injury on Stone's body was a wound on his left leg. "The wound would have bled some, but it was not on a major blood vessel and did not contribute to his death," Hofman said.

Ferman said the officers who found Stone's body saw what appeared to be cutting wounds, but the body was not thoroughly examined at the scene.

There was no evidence Stone shot himself, Hofman said. Toxicology reports will be expedited, he added.

Stone had been dead for an estimated 12 hours before his body was found, Hofman said. That means he was likely alive during the height of the manhunt Monday, while police were going door to door in Pennsburg.

Military Experience:
It remains unclear whether Stone's military experience contributed to the rampage. Records show he joined the Marine Corps Reserve in October 2002 and was on active duty until September 2008. Stone spent less than three months in Iraq in 2008, records show.

Gun Ownership / Monitoring:
County records show that when Stone was sentenced last year for drunken driving, he agreed not to own any "lookalike firearm, lethal weapon, explosives, and/or ammunition," according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. But it was unclear Wednesday if anyone sought to enforce that clause or even ask if Stone had a weapon.

Ref: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-mo...story.html

[HairOfTheDog]

NRA LOSES POLITICAL BATTLE -- NEW SURGEON GENERAL CONFIRMED

The NRA wasn't able to prevent Vivek Murthy from becoming the new US Surgeon General, despite their significant efforts to keep his nomination from succeeding. He's in.



It wasn't his youth or relative lack of experience that pitted the NRA against Murthy, it was his staunch positions on gun control.

For example, in 2012 he tweeted, “Tired of politicians playing politics [with] guns, putting lives at risk [because] they’re scared of NRA. Guns are a health care issue.”

In terms of specific advocacy, Murthy pushed not only for Obama’s failed gun-control bill after the Newtown tragedy but additional measures far more restrictive than anything in recent legislation. Murthy supports mandatory training and licensing before an American citizen can purchase a firearm, and also mandatory waiting periods and gun-rationing programs such as limiting how much ammunition a person can buy.

Murthy's supporters said they never gave up on his nomination, pointing to his qualifications as a Harvard and Yale-educated physician backed by more than 100 national organizations, as well as former health care officials under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. The question, according to activists, was not if the NRA was an insurmountable force, but whether enough enthusiasm could be built within the Democratic base to force a confirmation vote.

The lame-duck session offered their only chance, given Democrats could confirm Murthy with a simple majority vote under rules changes enacted by the Senate last year. Once Republicans take control of the upper chamber next year, he would stand no chance, with the GOP opposing not just Murthy's comments on guns, but his advocacy for the Affordable Care Act under a group he co-founded called Doctors for America, formerly known as Doctors for Obama.

Ref: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/19...52162.html

[blueberryhill]

I am pleased with his nomination. To those who feel they are guaranteed by 2^nd amendment, go ahead and enjoy your guns for hunting, target practice, and self-protection. I get that.....I did look up case where Supreme Court did not believe they could mess with that amendment (sued by someone who believed it was outmoded, as I believe also). Never have felt that it is appropriate in this day and time. Our military now bears arms for our protection, and police officers are supposed to be our protectors also. I think, in general, they do that, but either they need more training, better background checks, better psychological testing or all of the above. There are sociopaths out there dressed as cops who, want the power and authority awarded to their status. They beat their wives, and they use their guns to kill because part of their problem is poor impulse control, and so forth. I think the cop who killed the 12 year old should be charged. The reasons have already been discussed ad nauseam. However, I think most LE are doing their best to keep us safe. Yes, i know, he shouldn't have been playing with a real looking gun, etc...he should still be alive to learn from his mistake....didn't deserve to die.
I do object to everyone and their brother owning guns. Not everyone is responsible and in the case of many citizens, the gun they purchased to keep them safe, ends up being the weapon which kills them. In an emergency, e.g, someone pulling out a weapon and shooting people at random, there is usually no time to go to where the gun is stored, and stop these mass killings. Think that arming teachers is a very poor solution. I personally think there would be more deaths and unless gun was on your hip at all times, time is not in your favor. I think we need to work together and find a way to reduce gun violence in our country.
Saying redundant things like, guns don't kill people or I am going to sue my knife because it cut me...and criminals will find a way to get the guns and so forth isn't the answer. Focus on what can be done...I definitely am in favor of more complicated background checks. i know responsible gun owners won't agree with this; it is the same story of having to make things difficult for you, just because of those who abuse these same rights....Not fair. but true.

[Cutz]

Yeah... people that ride motorcycles without a helmet should be alive to learn from their mistakes, kids that play on train tracks should be alive to learn from their mistakes, and kids that OD on drugs should be alive to learn from their mistakes. That doesn't mean I blame motorcycles, trains, or drugs for their death.

I think we need to work together to find a way to reduce automobile violence in our country... since more people die from automobiles every year. Responsible drivers won't agree with me, but we need more stringent licensing checks and to make all cars only capable of going 60-70 miles an hour.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah... people that ride motorcycles without a helmet should be alive to learn from their mistakes, kids that play on train tracks should be alive to learn from their mistakes, and kids that OD on drugs should be alive to learn from their mistakes. That doesn't mean I blame motorcycles, trains, or drugs for their death.

People -- including police officers -- are not mechanical. People have judgment and decision-making powers, unlike motorcycles and trains and cars.

Police officers are trained specifically in applying judgment and decision-making to avoid exerting fatal force unless their lives are truly on the line, unlike mechanical objects.

Your analogy would only be effective if police officers were comparable to mechanical objects (or toxic substances, like drugs). I think more highly of police officers, on the whole, than to characterize them in that way. I still think human cops are a better safety bet than robocops, myself.

We should keep the human cops and simply toss from duty the ones whose poor judgements and decisions (intentional or unintentional) are determined to cost lives, instead of protecting lives. IMO.

[F.U.]

Don't forget about those evil swimming pools. Far to many children drown in them every year. They should be much harder to purchase, should be licensed, size should be limited and you should need a background check as well as a psychiatric evaluation to purchase one. There also needs to be something done about these evil children's toys. We lose to many children every year because they get these dangerous toys and choke on them. I think we need to limit the size of the toy, nothing with parts smaller than a toaster should be produced anymore. In fact I think it would be a good idea to get rid of Christmas and birthday parties , since they contribute to the toy industry. As long as we are at it, lets get rid of those pesky plastic bags the toys come in because children are still dying because they put them over their heads and cant breath.
The list can go on and on and in my opinion sounds just about as stupid as the arguments for more firearm control.
Everything in life has risks.

[Duchess]

I'm pro-gun and I don't have a problem with extensive background checks nor psychiatric evaluations nor any kind of waiting period. I'll never understand why anyone who wants to own a weapon would have a problem with background checks or waiting a few days for what they want. It shouldn't be easy to get a gun. Not just anyone should be allowed to own a weapon, we see proof of that over & over & over again.

...and furthermore start enforcing the laws that are already on the books. If people can't keep their weapons secure, throw the book at them, they obviously aren't responsible enough to own guns.

[F.U.]

Yeah... people that ride motorcycles without a helmet should be alive to learn from their mistakes, kids that play on train tracks should be alive to learn from their mistakes, and kids that OD on drugs should be alive to learn from their mistakes. That doesn't mean I blame motorcycles, trains, or drugs for their death.

People -- including police officers -- are not mechanical. People have judgment and decision-making powers, unlike motorcycles and trains and cars.

That is exactly right. People have to use better judgment when dealing with mechanical objects. We cant blame the object, just the person and their stupidity is to blame.
As a child you were told, Don't run with scissors. But if you did and got hurt with them it was your stupidity, not the floor or the scissors fault.

[F.U.]

start enforcing the laws that are already on the books.

I have said that for years Duch.

[HairOfTheDog]

The list can go on and on and in my opinion sounds just about as stupid as the arguments for more firearm control.

Don't underestimate your list, F.U.

It sounds way more stupid than the majority of the arguments for more firearm control. IMO.