GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[HairOfTheDog]

Obama could have said "hundreds of thousands of gun violence deaths in the US since 9/11" and been accurate, if he'd included all of the suicides.

But, he said "tens of thousands" instead. I don't think his statement was disingenuous at all.

Anyway, I don't disagree with you that all kinds of others social ills that contribute to, or result in, deaths should be addressed too.

[BlueTiki]

Anyway, I don't disagree with you that all kinds of others social ills that contribute to, or result in, deaths should be addressed too.

I'm tired of the gun issue . . . especially from a president who made health care his signature policy.

[username]

If anything Obama has worsened the socioeconomic and cultural problems that are the root of gun violence, which occur predominately in metropolitan areas and among minorities.

Thanks Obama.

How can you say that when we have a record number of people receiving government assistance? We're in a very "give to the poor" era. Minimum wages are going up...cell phones are free or low cost (I stuck that in there for Duchess), unemployment benefits have been extended to...I don't know, forever now? If the poor aren't happy under Obama's administration, I don't know when they would be.
There are fucking commercials reminding/suggesting low income folks be sure to go find out about all the assistance available to them. Quick...run to your local welfare office..you could be missing out on some free or low cost tax payer funded STUFF!!

[BlueTiki]

Quick...run to your local welfare office..you could be missing out on some free or low cost tax payer funded STUFF!!

And if you feel you didn't get your fair share . . . get a gun and kill someone.

You're in pain and you need to freely express your rage.

Welcome to Chi town . . . however, leave the Rebel Flag at home.

[Jimbone]

However, I posted numbers not far upthread about the areas with the highest per-capita gun deaths, and many of the big metropolitan areas are not at the top of the list. That is interesting, to me.

Yes, it's pretty much a list of socioeconomically depressed towns/cities. That shouldn't be a surprise at all. Larger metropolitan areas have population balance that smooths their per capita number out. That list is basically all blight with no variety in population to help out statistically.

For example in Chicago you'll find no gun homicide in the Hyde Park. But in the Englewood neighborhood nearby? Much different story.

Also, take a look at the victims of gun homicide in that list, and the demographics will be very similar to the larger metro areas nearby. Overwhelmingly black and hispanic males in poor communities killing each other with handguns.

The per capita number may be higher in those places, but the causes and the demographic of the people dying from the violence are the same.

[Jimbone]

How can you say that when we have a record number of people receiving government assistance? We're in a very "give to the poor" era. Minimum wages are going up...cell phones are free or low cost (I stuck that in there for Duchess), unemployment benefits have been extended to...I don't know, forever now? If the poor aren't happy under Obama's administration, I don't know when they would be.
There are fucking commercials reminding/suggesting low income folks be sure to go find out about all the assistance available to them. Quick...run to your local welfare office..you could be missing out on some free or low cost tax payer funded STUFF!!

It will never be enough. The dependent class that has been created by the government will never be satiated.

Never.

[HairOfTheDog]

The per capita number may be higher in those places, but the causes and the demographic of the people dying from the violence are the same.

So, then, it's not a "metropolitan" problem, nor is it an Obama-caused problem, right?

Maybe it would be a good thing if the new U.S. Surgeon General, the seven largest medical groups inclusive of most U.S. physicians, and some community leaders/citizens succeeded in getting gun violence (and other types of high-volume violence) classified as a "public health crisis"?

That way, the CDC could accept the government funding to study the causes/impacts, track and monitor the incidents consistently across locales/states, and accumulate some meaningful data that could be sliced in different ways and studied over time?

As it stands, no one is doing that and the data is all over the place. The data is spotty at best because the pro-gun politicians block the funding for such research. They don't want more helpful data to be available because their fear that it might be used to support arguments for more gun-related controls and safety measures exceeds their desire to better understand the roots and extent of the problem in order to better address the problem, IMO.

And, your 90% black and Hispanic offender numbers are specific to Chicago only, right? How does that match up to the percentage of the general population there? Those percentages, of course, don't line up with with breakdown nationwide, not even in the same ballpark.

[Jimbone]

So, then, it's not a "metropolitan" problem, nor is it an Obama-caused problem, right?

If you could point me to where I said it was an Obama-caused problem, I'd appreciate it. I don't believe I've ever stated gun violence is an Obama-caused problem.

And yes, it is still a metropolitan area problem. Those majority of places on that list all straddle or are nearby major metropolitan areas. Metropolitan areas have higher likelihood of socioeconomic problems affecting populations. And the majority of gun homicides occur in metropolitan areas.

And, your 90% black and Hispanic offender numbers are specific to Chicago only, right? How does that match up the the percentage of the general population there? Those percentages, of course, don't line up with with breakdown nationwide, not even in the same ballpark.

That's correct, those numbers were specifically for Chicago.

Source: http://heyjackass.com

According to the US Census, the ethnicity of the Chicago population is as follows:

White: 31.7%
Black: 32.9%
Hispanic: 28.9%

90%+ is not reflective of the nationwide number. In 2010, blacks alone were 55% of gun homicides. Hispanics were 17%. White gun homicides were 25%.

Source: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/0...rm-deaths/

[BlueTiki]

Maybe it would be a good thing if the new U.S. Surgeon General, the seven largest medical groups inclusive of most U.S. physicians, and some local community leaders/citizens succeeded in getting gun violence (and other types of high-volume violence) classified as a "public health crisis"?

That way, the CDC could accept the government funding to study the causes/impacts, track and monitor the incidents consistently across locales/states, and accumulate some meaningful data that could be sliced in different ways and studied over time?

As it stands, no one is doing that and the data is all over the place.

And, your 90% black and Hispanic offender numbers are specific to Chicago only, right?

I like your idea, HotD, as having it deemed a "public health crisis" . . . more so than global warming.

Jimbone might not be too far off in his stats.

The CDC's (2013) numbers of Assault/Homicide by firearms show an extremely higher rate of black males being killed, as a percentage of the population, than whites.

Here's the numbers:

Black Males - 5,732 killed

White Males - 1,950 killed

Hispanic Males - 1,530 killed

Again . . . it doesn't classify the race of the shooter.

Maybe whitey is on a killing spree?

Or it's the reason there is a disproportionate amount of colored incarcerated?

[HairOfTheDog]

If you could point me to where I said it was an Obama-caused problem, I'd appreciate it. I don't believe I've ever stated gun violence is an Obama-caused problem.

With pleasure, my good man (is that kindly enough?).

You contend that the root of gun violence is socioeconomic and cultural problems which Obama has worsened, thereby causing a worsening of gun violence.

In your own words upthread at 11:09AM today:
"If anything Obama has worsened the socioeconomic and cultural problems that are the root of gun violence, which occur predominately in metropolitan areas and among minorities. Thanks Obama."

Are you now contending that you weren't stating that Obama has caused a worsened gun violence problem in Chicago and other metropolitan areas?

Because it seemed obvious to me that your "Thanks Obama" was not meant to be taken as sincere gratitude.

[Jimbone]

If you could point me to where I said it was an Obama-caused problem, I'd appreciate it. I don't believe I've ever stated gun violence is an Obama-caused problem.

With pleasure, my good man (is that kindly enough?).

You contend that the root of gun violence is socioeconomic and cultural problems which Obama has worsened, thereby causing a worsening of gun violence.

In your own words upthread at 11:09AM today:
"If anything Obama has worsened the socioeconomic and cultural problems that are the root of gun violence, which occur predominately in metropolitan areas and among minorities. Thanks Obama."

Are you now contending that you weren't stating that Obama has caused a worsened gun violence problem in Chicago and other metropolitan areas?

Because it seemed obvious to me that your "Thanks Obama" was not meant to be taken as sincere gratitude.

That's a stretch HotD.

You want me to defend and argue things with you I've never said. I won't do it. I've never said Obama worsened gun violence in Chicago or other metropolitan areas. I've never said gun violence was an Obama-caused problem.

I've said he worsened socioeconomic and cultural problems that are at the root of gun violence. That statement doesn't infer the jump you made.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jimbone might not be too far off in his stats.

The CDC's (2013) numbers of Assault/Homicide by firearms show an extremely higher rate of black males being killed, as a percentage of the population, than whites.

He's not far off at all in terms of percentage killings by race in Chicago.

Here are the best available percentages, of both homicide offenders and victims, by race for 2014 in Chicago.



About 93% of homicide victims were black and Hispanic.
About 80% of homicide offenders were black and Hispanic.
About 65% of the population of Chicago is black and Hispanic.

There is a disproportionate number of blacks and Hispanics killing and dying in the Windy City, no doubt. But, that 80% and 90% would be even more concerning if Chicago's black and Hispanic population percentage aligned more closely with the nationwide percentage of only 25%.

Sources:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...utput=html
http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chic...der-stats/ ...Data compiled via Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun-Times, Homicide Watch Chicago, DNAInfo Chicago, Chicago Redeye Homicide Tracker, NBC5 Chicago, City of Chicago Data Portal and CPD CLEARMAP. Community areas and neighborhoods are determined by the Chicago Tribune’s Boundaries App.

[HairOfTheDog]

That's a stretch HotD.

You want me to defend and argue things with you I've never said. I won't do it. I've never said Obama worsened gun violence in Chicago or other metropolitan areas. I've never said gun violence was an Obama-caused problem.

I've said he worsened socioeconomic and cultural problems that are at the root of gun violence. That statement doesn't infer the jump you made.

Okay Jimbone. What you said is right upthread; no stretching or jumping required. That's not arguable.

And, I don't think it's anything to get all defensive about anyway.

So, we're on the same page.

[username]

I've said he worsened socioeconomic and cultural problems that are at the root of gun violence. That statement doesn't infer the jump you made.

Of course it does, you fork tongued idiot. You absolutely inferred that the current administration is responsible for increased gun violence.
Although that was a nice/albeit lame attempt at back pedaling.

[BlueTiki]

You absolutely inferred that the current administration is responsible for increased gun violence.

C'mon . . . Bone NEVER said that the poor darkies are powerless over their criminal, homicidal tendencies because of the administration's socioeconomic policies and cultural problems.

He just said Obama ain't heppin' dem very much.

And coincidentally, there's more gun violence.

Is it me or has there been more mass killings AFTER the Confederate Battle Flag was voted out, in SC?

Stoppin' the violence, one corpse at a time!

[username]

You absolutely inferred that the current administration is responsible for increased gun violence.

C'mon . . . Bone...said that the poor darkies.... homicidal tendencies because of the administration's socioeconomic policies and cultural problems....

....Obama HAD WORSENED the root of gun violence.

If he'd said that niggers be acting up now that there be a kinda black guy in the WHITE House...there's a thought. Hell, maybe the "Hussein" middle name gave rise to Daesh. Huh? Can I get an "amen" here?

It's all Obama's fault.

[Jimbone]

I'm not back pedaling on anything user, and I'm certainly not speaking with a forked tongue. I didn't say anywhere he was responsible for any increase in gun violence - because gun violence overall has been on the decrease for years.

However, if you want to be blind to the fact that there are more people below the poverty line now, more people on public assistance, higher unemployment in minority communities, etc. then I can't help you. These numbers have all worsened under Obama, and I'm not just blaming him because I have a hard on for him or because he is black. I am blaming him because it's happened on his watch, and he's in charge.

If you don't want to recognize the fact that those things above are the socioeconomic and cultural factors that are a root cause of gun violence, then you don't agree with my argument. Fine by me.

If you want to conflate those two things and make an inference that wasn't there, so be it. It wasn't an inference I was making.

Sidenote: my 'Thanks Obama' was supposed to be a funny reference to the meme.

*****

As to the racial bullshit you threw into your post, that's nonsense and very aussie-like. It's no secret that I don't like Obama's policies. In my opinion, he's a terrible leader and a bad President.

But it's not because he is black. Or because he has the middle name Hussein.

It's because to me, his policies are shit. Oh wait, shit is brown so that is racist. Hmmm... his policies are garbage. Uh oh, I'm saying a black man is like garbage, that's racist too. Let me try again. I generally oppose the policies he puts forward. Crap! Oppose is sort of like oppression, and I'm using racist code words now! Ack!

How's this: I don't like the President's policies because I disagree with the majority of his political and social agenda, irrespective of his gender, race, or political affiliation.

[BlueTiki]

How's this: I don't like the President's policies because I disagree with the majority of his political and social agenda, irrespective of his gender, race, or political affiliation.

I knew it!

It's his ancestral origin.

Kenya dig it?

[username]

How's this: I don't like the President's policies because I disagree with the majority of his political and social agenda, irrespective of his gender, race, or political affiliation.

I knew it!

It's his ancestral origin.

Kenya dig it?

Yeah, yeah JB. You're running for president, 2016. Lay out your domestic/foreign policy.

[Maggot]

Kenya dig it...................Bwa hahahahahahhaha