GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Duchess]

Grrrrrr

[username]

Grrrrrr

The current case is an 11 y/o. JB brought up a different case regarding a 9 y/o (just to clarify).

And I stand by my position that a 9 y/o should never be tried as an adult. Tried? Yes. As an adult? Hell no.

[Duchess]

If tried as an adult means he could be incarcerated with adults then I wouldn't go for that but what do you do with a child who kills? Put them with other kid killers? I always wonder about the backgrounds of these messed up kids. How were they raised. Very doubtful it was like you & I were.

[Jimbone]

If tried as an adult means he could be incarcerated with adults then I wouldn't go for that but what do you do with a child who kills? Put them with other kid killers? I always wonder about the backgrounds of these messed up kids. How were they raised. Very doubtful it was like you & I were.

No, he wouldn't have been incarcerated with adults.

Kid ended up pleading to involuntary manslaughter, and was put on probation until he was 21.

He was pissed he couldn't play Nintendo anymore with the neighbors. So he went home (just next door), went to the nightstand and got the key for the gun cabinet. Unlocked it, and took out the rifle. Went to another location and found the correct ammunition, and loaded the rifle. Went to a window, removed the screen, and adjusted the scope to the correct range. Aimed at the 7 year old riding a snowmobile in the yard next to him, tracked his aim, then pulled the trigger.

He then replaced the screen and closed the window. Hid the shell casing, replaced the rifle in the cabinet, locked it and returned the key to the nightstand.

He got caught because his parents found the rifle askew in the case, and he cut his forehead when the scope kicked back into it. He said the dog had jumped up and knocked a knife out of his hands while making a sandwich. Told the other kids in the neighborhood crying about what had happened to not think about it and they wouldn't be sad. He said that while paramedics were working on the girl in another room.

[username]

While I think they should have a true mental health, rehabilitative program, I have no problem with juvenile jails. Lock 'em up but don't throw away the key at that age.

[Duchess]

Kid ended up pleading to involuntary manslaughter, and was put on probation until he was 21.

The entire story is sickening. I don't see that as involuntary manslaughter, I see it as cold blooded murder. Probation. Pfft. Whatta fucked up world we live in.

[Jimbone]

It was pretty maddening. They had trouble prosecuting the case because of the age and the law in Pennsylvania at the time. After 3 years they decided to offer the plea deal, with the initial blessing of the victims mom.

She later regretted her decision and wished for harder punishment.

[Duchess]

I got punished worse than that for staying out after my curfew.

[Jimbone]

Word. I don't know what the punishment should have been, but no confinement and probation until 21 seems light to me.

[HairOfTheDog]

Kid ended up pleading to involuntary manslaughter, and was put on probation until he was 21.

He was pissed he couldn't play Nintendo anymore with the neighbors. So he went home (just next door), went to the nightstand and got the key for the gun cabinet. Unlocked it, and took out the rifle. Went to another location and found the correct ammunition, and loaded the rifle. Went to a window, removed the screen, and adjusted the scope to the correct range. Aimed at the 7 year old riding a snowmobile in the yard next to him, tracked his aim, then pulled the trigger.

He then replaced the screen and closed the window. Hid the shell casing, replaced the rifle in the cabinet, locked it and returned the key to the nightstand.

He got caught because his parents found the rifle askew in the case, and he cut his forehead when the scope kicked back into it. He said the dog had jumped up and knocked a knife out of his hands while making a sandwich. Told the other kids in the neighborhood crying about what had happened to not think about it and they wouldn't be sad. He said that while paramedics were working on the girl in another room.

Shit, that's a high degree of premeditation, psychological manipulation, and apathy for an effiin' 9-year-old. Very adult-like criminal behavior.

Kids with that type of mentality and murderous intent are scary little bastards.


The victim ^ Jessica Carr - 7........The murderer ^ Cameron Kocher - 9.

I think Kocher should have been incarcerated in a psych facility where his education was continued and he could be counseled/monitored by psychiatric professionals for at least a year before determining if/when he was safe to be released.

I don't like to think about what such a cold, calculating, vengeful kid could do as an adult if it's simply in his nature/blood.

[Jimbone]

It was crazy. He was sent to a different school under a different name, and that was pretty much it IIRC.

I guess he's stayed out of trouble since, but holy hell... when you've already killed someone by 9 years old how much more trouble can you cause.

He still lives in that area, and I believe he's back to his real name.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Thats about some crazy shit, we will reading about that little asshole again

[username]

I can't imagine how upset the parents of that little girl are/were with that absurd "sentence". I agree with HotD on what should have happened although I think one year might not be sufficient to treat that level of broken. I think several years in a juvenile facility (with education/treatment) then a gradual "step down" through a few other live in programs that gradually offered him more freedoms, privileges (like visits home that gradually became longer in length). Just returning him straight to his parents/the home environment...stupid.

[Jimbone]

It really is - and was - outrageous. I remember debating and discussing it in my high school at the time - I was a senior that year.

When it happened I guess there was no real way for the prosecutors to handle it because of how the laws were written in Pennsylvania. They've since clarified the code I hope.

[Maggot]

My son has hauled off and smacked his sister right in the head for something stupid (she of coarse smacked him back harder and they both started crying) but the disassociation with pain being inflicted on another person is sometimes lost on children that age , they really have no clue of the consequences of their actions as emotions are not under control yet. What this kid did was not the same. He had plenty of time to think that it was wrong and it wasn't like lashing out with a punch.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

How in the hell do you rehab a kid that plots and then executes a murder like that?
He is head fucked in a basic and permanent manner.

[Carsman]

Just heard a poignant statement about guns:

"A Gun doesn't have a mind of it's own"! (I'd agree)

[HairOfTheDog]

The old 'gun in the box' trick...talk about concealed carry


Waco, Texas Police Officers arrested ^ Ashley Cecilia Castaneda, 31, and Gabriel Garcia, 30, during a traffic stop Monday night, after allegedly finding 2.7 grams of methamphetamine hidden under the driver's seat of the vehicle and another 29.9 grams of meth in a purse, along with a set of digital scales.

Castaneda then told the cops she had a gun in her vagina.

"Officers immediately stopped and a female officer searched Castaneda discovering she had in fact placed a loaded Smith and Wesson pistol inside her body cavity. The weapon had a round chambered and a full magazine of bullets," Sgt. Patrick Swanton told reporters.

Swanton said he did not know if the gun's safety was on when it was recovered. The gun police recovered is a 6-shot Smith & Wesson Model 61 semi-automatic pistol, which was first sold in 1970 as the .22 Escort. It has a 5-bullet magazine and was intended for concealed carry.

It's a model that was last produced by Smith & Wesson in 1974. "We don't see those too much," Swanton said.

Castaneda was charged with manufacturing/delivery of a controlled substance in a drug free zone, two counts of possession of a dangerous drug and with unlawfully carrying a weapon.

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-arres...er-vagina/

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I can't think that would be a very convenient place to carry, a bit inaccessible I would think

[crash]

.22 Escort huh?

Guess she had an Es in the hole..