GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[F.U.]

I just don't understand the irrational fear of a gun, or rather the fear of the average citizen because he has a gun on his side. I see people with guns on them all the time. Not all of them are open carry, some are tucked under a shirt, but I can spot them. They don't make me nervous at all.
Until the point where that firearm is drawn in a threatening manor I look at them as a friend, not a foe.

[Maggot]

We have parades here where quite a few open carry, it doesn't bother me, some are works of art and nobody freaks out. At least not what I see. Someday someone might start bitching but they are the minority really. The media makes it look like friggin WWIII sometimes. Eh......

[Duchess]

I just don't understand the irrational fear of a gun, or rather the fear of the average citizen because he has a gun on his side. I see people with guns on them all the time. Not all of them are open carry, some are tucked under a shirt, but I can spot them. They don't make me nervous at all.
Until the point where that firearm is drawn in a threatening manor I look at them as a friend, not a foe.

You present that as if everyone who carries in public is the good guy. I no more believe that than I do in thinking everyone carrying is a bad guy.

[Maggot]

Only the bad guys carry illegally. You sometimes never guess those. Sometimes you can with someone that's inexperienced.

[Blindgreed1]

I just don't understand the irrational fear of a gun, or rather the fear of the average citizen because he has a gun on his side. I see people with guns on them all the time. Not all of them are open carry, some are tucked under a shirt, but I can spot them. They don't make me nervous at all.
Until the point where that firearm is drawn in a threatening manor I look at them as a friend, not a foe.

I think it has a lot to do with ignorance to what it takes to get a CC FU. Folks probably don't realize there's a lot involved and liken it to waiting in line at the DMV.

[F.U.]

I just don't understand the irrational fear of a gun, or rather the fear of the average citizen because he has a gun on his side. I see people with guns on them all the time. Not all of them are open carry, some are tucked under a shirt, but I can spot them. They don't make me nervous at all.
Until the point where that firearm is drawn in a threatening manor I look at them as a friend, not a foe.

You present that as if everyone who carries in public is the good guy. I no more believe that than I do in thinking everyone carrying is a bad guy.

That was not my intention. I am very aware bad guys carry also. If they did not us good guy's would not need to.

[Maggot]

Like it or not responsible gun owners are not the criminals. The ones that are show offs are the same as any other group of fags. Being obnoxiously blatant and infringing on others rights is the same thing in any ideology. Also, humans suck, and are more unpredictable than a wild animal, they are dangerous in any skin. They will feed off each other and eat their own children.

Until they are teenagers ............then their feet start to stink to much.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't think it makes a difference if the bloodthirsty American gun owner with a CC permit opens fire in a grocery store or a gay club, personally.

It's also concerning to me that other failed wanna-be cops (like Zimmerman) and unstable citizens are running around with permitted guns.

But, those are Florida's laws and it's up to the states and localities to determine who gets permitted to pack in public. There's no proposal to change that right now.

Why leave cops out of the mix? Just lump everyone together. That always has a way of turning out well. Why differentiate between terrorists, the mentally ill and those with badges who exercise poor judgement? Make all guns illegal so that only criminals have them.

I don't know if you didn't read the comment to which you responded, didn't comprehend it, or you're just tossing out inapplicable shit for some other reasons. But, your response doesn't even pertain to my comment.

I'll break it down for you.

Orlando Shooter Profile:
-- Recently been on the terrorist watch list, questioned three times by the FBI,
-- Been kicked out of the police academy for threatening behavior,
-- Had a documented history of violence and/or serious threats at every single school he ever attended and every job he ever held.

Still.......he (a) passed a background check and was hired to guard a Florida government courthouse, and (b) was given a CC permit to carry off duty in public.

While I don't oppose CC permits, it's concerning to me when someone with that kind of profile is hired to protect government spaces and given a permit to carry a gun in public spaces. (And, of course, it would be concerning if a person with that profile was hired to be a cop and handed a service weapon as well).

I consider it important that local, state, and federal authorities examine and learn from such process or judgment loopholes and/or gaps in inter-agency LE communication in order to minimize future mass shooting murders and gun violence at the hands of people with such profiles.

It's also a matter of concern to LE, the FBI, the victims' families, politicians on both sides, and every rational person I've heard speak about the issue. However, the fact that you, Gunnar, don't find our concern warranted is not concerning to me.

P.s. I'll trust F.U.'s own claims about how he always keeps loaded guns on-hand and unlocked around the house (even when his little grandson was around)...so that he's always ready if a bad guy or big brother busts in on him. Your testament to the contrary, on his behalf, doesn't carry any weight.

[sally]

Wouldn't crazy people who are intent on committing mass shootings do it whether they have a CC or not? The CC seems irrelevant in that regard. I'm more concerned with the process that allowed them to so easily purchase the gun in the first place.

I can understand the argument against CC because there are so many hotheads out there, but even so I'm not real worried that some asshole at the grocery store is going to blow me away because I accidentally skipped ahead of him in line at the deli.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I'm most concerned about the screening/checking process for gun purchase as well.

That someone with so many red flags would be hired to guard a government building and given a permit to carry a gun around in public is also concerning.

In my opinion, it's clear that background checks need to be expanded (when it come to qualifying for gun purchase, qualifying for CC permits, and hiring security guards) and/or that there are some judgment and process problems to address.

That doesn't mean that I think nobody should be able to purchase a gun, or get a CC permit, or hire a security guard -- obviously.

[F.U.]

I don't think it makes a difference if the bloodthirsty American gun owner with a CC permit opens fire in a grocery store or a gay club, personally.

It's also concerning to me that other failed wanna-be cops (like Zimmerman) and unstable citizens are running around with permitted guns.

But, those are Florida's laws and it's up to the states and localities to determine who gets permitted to pack in public. There's no proposal to change that right now.

Why leave cops out of the mix? Just lump everyone together. That always has a way of turning out well. Why differentiate between terrorists, the mentally ill and those with badges who exercise poor judgement? Make all guns illegal so that only criminals have them.

I don't know if you didn't read the comment to which you responded, didn't comprehend it, or you're just tossing out inapplicable shit for some other reasons. But, your response doesn't even pertain to my comment.

I'll break it down for you.

Orlando Shooter Profile:
-- Recently been on the terrorist watch list, questioned three times by the FBI,
-- Been kicked out of the police academy for threatening behavior,
-- Had a documented history of violence and/or serious threats at every single school he ever attended and every job he ever held.

Still.......he (a) passed a background check and was hired to guard a Florida government courthouse, and (b) was given a CC permit to carry off duty in public.

While I don't oppose CC permits, it's concerning to me when someone with that kind of profile is hired to protect government spaces and given a permit to carry a gun in public spaces.

So, I consider it important that local, state, and federal authorities examine and learn from such process or judgment loopholes and/or gaps in inter-agency LE communication in order to minimize future mass shooting murders and gun violence at the hands of people with such profiles.

It's also a matter of concern to LE, the FBI, the victims' families, politicians on both sides, and to every rational person I've heard speak about the issue. However, the fact that you, Gunnar, don't find our concern warranted is not concerning to me.

P.s. I'll trust F.U.'s own claims about how he always keeps loaded guns on-hand and unlocked around the house (even when his little grandson was around)...so that he's always ready if a bad guy or big brother busts in on him. Your testament to the contrary, on his behalf, doesn't carry any weight.

Just as a side note I thought I should say that after our conversations here I reavaluated things. I now only keep 3 loaded firearms in my house and they are always within my and or my ols reach. My daily catty and my backup and my ols carry gun. I have downsized a lot.

[sally]

This happened when we were at Sloppy Joe's bar in Key West in March. Some drunk guy got in to a fight with his girlfriend outside and when two other guys tried to intervene he got pissed off and fired his gun hitting three innocent bystanders. We were inside the bar and they boarded up the windows and moved everyone to the back of the bar. Everyone was so drunk in there no one gave a shit what was going on. So I can see why they don't want every average Joe asshole running around with a CC, because of stuff like this. I don't think CC permits should be banned, but it should be difficult to get one.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/co...88112.html

[F.U.]

This happened when we were at Sloppy Joe's bar in Key West in March. Some drunk guy got in to a fight with his girlfriend outside and when two other guys tried to intervene he got pissed off and fired his gun hitting three innocent bystanders. We were inside the bar and they boarded up the windows and moved everyone to the back of the bar. Everyone was so drunk in there no one gave a shit what was going on. So I can see why they don't want every average Joe asshole running around with a CC, because of stuff like this. I don't think CC permits should be banned, but it should be difficult to get one.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/co...88112.html

Did he have a permit to carry? Even if he did that is not the norm.

[F.U.]

Iowa just became a shall issue state 5 years ago. Before that it was up to the cleo to decide. I lived in a county where the cop was a Dick and almost never issued. I did go in to apply but when he talked to me he gave me a head to toe look, snickered and said don't bother. That is just wrong.

[sally]

I don't know if he had a permit to carry, but I do think that is the norm. Domestic disputes involving guns out in public happen on a daily basis. And I'm sure a percentage of the guns were purchased legally with a permit to carry. But either way I think that is the argument against CC permits, not some guy blowing up the grocery store. He's going to do that either way.

[F.U.]

I don't know if he had a permit to carry, but I do think that is the norm. Domestic disputes involving guns out in public happen on a daily basis. And I'm sure a percentage of the guns were purchased legally with a permit to carry. But either way I think that is the argument against CC permits, not some guy blowing up the grocery store. He's going to do that either way.

I disagree, I don't see this happening daily. Domestic arguments in public yes, but involving a firearm, not so much.

[HairOfTheDog]

This happened when we were at Sloppy Joe's bar in Key West in March. Some drunk guy got in to a fight with his girlfriend outside and when two other guys tried to intervene he got pissed off and fired his gun hitting three innocent bystanders. We were inside the bar and they boarded up the windows and moved everyone to the back of the bar. Everyone was so drunk in there no one gave a shit what was going on. So I can see why they don't want every average Joe asshole running around with a CC, because of stuff like this. I don't think CC permits should be banned, but it should be difficult to get one.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/co...88112.html

Yeah, by far, most CC holders are responsible and they sometimes intervene and stop criminals. I don't object to CC permits either, but agree that the background check and screening should be thorough. That doesn't mean no CC holders (just like people packing illegally) will lose their shit and shoot people in public places, but it reduces the likelihood.

If it's too easy to get a CC permit, it's a problem. If someone with a CC permit is called in for acting strangely or making a threat, he can't be busted or have his gun confiscated if cops notice a gun on his person (as long as it's not a gun free zone), cops don't find any evidence of criminal activity, and the gun owner doesn't admit to criminal intent. If he acts normal enough and agrees to move on, the cops will most likely just send him on his way. If he's on his way to shoot his ex-wife and her friends as they leave the Dew Drop Inn tavern and he follows through, it's gonna suck for the cop in terms of backlash, but the cop just followed the law.

If the same guy had instead been denied a CC permit based on a problematic background, chances are much higher that he would have been arrested for carrying without a permit and/or had his gun confiscated before he could follow through with his plan to shoot people.

Here's a list of some gun owners with CC permits who committed mass/multiple shooting murders. http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-sh...y-killers/

[sally]

I don't know if he had a permit to carry, but I do think that is the norm. Domestic disputes involving guns out in public happen on a daily basis. And I'm sure a percentage of the guns were purchased legally with a permit to carry. But either way I think that is the argument against CC permits, not some guy blowing up the grocery store. He's going to do that either way.

I disagree, I don't see this happening daily. Domestic arguments in public yes, but involving a firearm, not so much.

Just in this little forum alone we have a member who murdered someone with a gun over a domestic dispute. I think it was in the victims house though, not in public.

[Blindgreed1]

I don't think it makes a difference if the bloodthirsty American gun owner with a CC permit opens fire in a grocery store or a gay club, personally.

It's also concerning to me that other failed wanna-be cops (like Zimmerman) and unstable citizens are running around with permitted guns.

But, those are Florida's laws and it's up to the states and localities to determine who gets permitted to pack in public. There's no proposal to change that right now.

Why leave cops out of the mix? Just lump everyone together. That always has a way of turning out well. Why differentiate between terrorists, the mentally ill and those with badges who exercise poor judgement? Make all guns illegal so that only criminals have them.

I don't know if you didn't read the comment to which you responded, didn't comprehend it, or you're just tossing out inapplicable shit for some other reasons. But, your response doesn't even pertain to my comment.

I'll break it down for you.

Orlando Shooter Profile:
-- Recently been on the terrorist watch list, questioned three times by the FBI,
-- Been kicked out of the police academy for threatening behavior,
-- Had a documented history of violence and/or serious threats at every single school he ever attended and every job he ever held.

Still.......he (a) passed a background check and was hired to guard a Florida government courthouse, and (b) was given a CC permit to carry off duty in public.

While I don't oppose CC permits, it's concerning to me when someone with that kind of profile is hired to protect government spaces and given a permit to carry a gun in public spaces. (And, of course, it would be concerning if a person with that profile was hired to be a cop and handed a service weapon as well).

I consider it important that local, state, and federal authorities examine and learn from such process or judgment loopholes and/or gaps in inter-agency LE communication in order to minimize future mass shooting murders and gun violence at the hands of people with such profiles.

It's also a matter of concern to LE, the FBI, the victims' families, politicians on both sides, and every rational person I've heard speak about the issue. However, the fact that you, Gunnar, don't find our concern warranted is not concerning to me.

P.s. I'll trust F.U.'s own claims about how he always keeps loaded guns on-hand and unlocked around the house (even when his little grandson was around)...so that he's always ready if a bad guy or big brother busts in on him. Your testament to the contrary, on his behalf, doesn't carry any weight.

Sorry but that's just dumb shit. I refuse to comment.

[HairOfTheDog]

Sure thing, Gunnar.

P.s. speaking of dumb shit, refusing to comment would have been much smarter than commenting about how you refuse to comment.