GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

That guy was only 5 years older than me and I grantee I could match that performance
There are 3 guys in my TKD class that age and they can do it too, one is a Dr, one teaches Sigma 6, one is a lawyer.
I would not look forward to going up against any of them in a real fight

[sally]

he doesn't look like a crippled old man and I'm sure his adrenalin was pumping.

We aren't talking about your husband preparing to mount you, are we?

No we're still talking about you hair brained conspiracy theory that a 64 year old man couldn't possibly move from one window to another so Jesus the security guard must have been helping him.

[Jimbone]

There's no way Jesus was involved. Or was he?

[Jimbone]

On a serious note, the NRA today is asking the ATF to re-examine their decision on 'bump stocks'.

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."

https://home.nra.org/joint-statement/

[Blindgreed1]

There's no way Jesus was involved. Or was he?

Jesus was unarmed and took a bullet to the knee. That's what Jesus did.

[HairOfTheDog]

There's no way Jesus was involved. Or was he?

No way in hell. MS is sniffing glue again.

Everybody knows that Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. He wouldn't participate in such a crime against humanity.

Jesus is just alright with me, for sure.

[HairOfTheDog]

On a serious note, the NRA today is asking the ATF to re-examine their decision on 'bump stocks'.

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."

https://home.nra.org/joint-statement/

The ATF should definitely reconsider their classification and ban bump stocks.

For one, they made the idiot ruling not to ban them initially based on a purely technical definition/description of the item as a stand-alone, even though the item is non-functional as a stand-alone. That makes even less sense to me than proposed bans on certain firearms based only on cosmetics instead of functionality.

Secondly, the ATF can make the change without the politics and delays associated with gun-related legislation. That's the best way to get it done most quickly and efficiently.

But........if the ATF refuses and a ban bill goes to Congress, this could be such an easy fucking 'gimme' for the conservatives in Congress and the President. Bump stocks shouldn't have been legal in the first place and there's no Second Amendment protection attached to them. Plus, as I understand it, there are very few gun enthusiasts (except the would-be mass murderers) who give a shit about bump stocks.

I don't think it would cost conservative republican politicians but a very few votes to come out strongly united in favor of banning bump stocks, and Trump could benefit from backing them up. They'd likely gain way more than they'd lose from the resulting PR campaign, especially since they don't need to fear the NRA on this one.

"See Americans, as we head into the 2018 mid-term elections, we Republicans ARE united. And, we Republicans CAN compromise all bi-partisan like for the safety of American citizens..." I can imagine the PR campaign...but hope the ATF just steps up and makes all that unnecessary.

[BigMark]

What happened in Las Vegas happens 12 times a year in Chicago but no one cares. Every month 300+ wounded & 60 dead. Nobody cares because it is black on black.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jesus (Christ, not Campos). That same tired old deflective bullshit, again. Why? (rhetorical)

No, Biggie, 'the same thing' absolutely does not happen 12 times a year in Chicago. There hasn't been a mass murder of people (not engaged in criminal activity) on the scale of what happened in Vegas in the modern history of this country.

And, if Paddock had chosen the Life is Beautiful festival where there would undoubtedly have been more black concert-goers and victims, I doubt the reaction would be much different.

Violent crime exists and a whole lot of people care -- tens of thousands of people work every day to prevent and solve the problems which are largely related to poverty and economics in cities like Chicago. The meth and Opioid crime and death epidemic among poor predominately white communities is also a major concern to many of us.

More can and should be done to prevent crime and fatalities in those areas, no argument here. But..........that obviously doesn't mean that concern and efforts surrounding the mass murders going down across the country are less justified, at least it doesn't mean that to people who can walk and chew gum at the same time and aren't hung up on the race of the victims.

[BigMark]

I'm hung up on the hypocrisy happening in America every fucking second. Why does Vegas have an overwhelming response? Money. Send the federal government into Chicago to stop the violence that makes Mexico look like child's play. The street in front of Mandalay Bay is safe to walk on 99.9% of the year, you can't say that about those gang infested neighborhoods, Black people deserve to live a decent life too.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm hung up on the hypocrisy happening in America every fucking second. Why does Vegas have an overwhelming response? Money. Send the federal government into Chicago to stop the violence that makes Mexico look like child's play. The street in front of Mandalay Bay is safe to walk on 99.9% of the year, you can't say that about those gang infested neighborhoods, Black people deserve to live a decent life too.

I do not believe that money is the reason for the overwhelming response, but I can respect your opinion about that.

I believe that the unpredictability and the scale of simultaneous loss of life associated with mass murders, like the one in Vegas, are the major reasons for the overwhelming response. I do not believe the response would be much different if 58 people had been killed attending a Bulls game in Chicago, or a monster truck show at Oracle in Oakland. Why do you?

I agree with you that black people deserve a decent life too -- I think that goes without saying to all but the most hateful bigots. I'm glad to hear you say it and hope to see you become an active participant in making a difference. Black lives matter, no argument here.

[BigMark]

Cool, now rub my belly.

[HairOfTheDog]

Cool, now rub my belly.

You got it..........right after you get out there and march for equal rights and just before you besa mi culo.

Oh, and by the way, Biggie -- many of us here aren't suffering from dementia yet.

So, when you bring up hypocrisy as it relates to money determining the response towards victims........it's an outstanding example of hypocrisy (on your part) when recalling your recent response to aiding the victims of natural disaster in Puerto Rico.

[BigMark]

It was already a disaster there before the hurricane hit, now we have to pay for both.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I rest my case...

[BigMark]

I have the right to remain silent, unfortunately I don't have the ability. (there goes the belly rub)

[Carsman]

Unfortunately, I'm afraid all the outrage, shock, and anger, currently going on now over the Vegas catastrophe will surely slowly fade away shortly.

Without the benefit of banning of and or removal of military "assault type weapons" themselves (not just the Bump Stocks) from the civilian public! What's the need for "mass killing" military weapons in our "civilized" civilian life!
(I know gun lover's will disagree, but. . .)

If banning and or removal of "assault weapons didn't happen after the outrage, shock, and anger of the "20" babies that were slaughtered at Sandy Hook, (and 6 teachers) and or Pulse Nightclub, it will not happen now.

Nothing will change, I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm right.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have the right to remain silent, unfortunately I don't have the ability. (there goes the belly rub)

The belly rub is still in play under the aforementioned conditions.

And, I hope you never go silent here Biggie -- that shit totally harshes the whole 'discussion and debate' forum gig.

[HairOfTheDog]

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm right.

Me too.

If the lawmakers are unwilling to make necessary changes, most people tend to feel helpless and carry on (until the next one).

The best we can do is make gun policy a higher priority when we hit the voting booths.

That might mean voting for someone who isn't exactly your first choice on other topics, but you have a choice that can make a difference -- don't vote for candidates that have A ratings from the NRA and constantly spew bullshit to justify inaction when it comes to sensible gun-related legislation.

[Carsman]

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm right.

Me too.

If the lawmakers are unwilling to make necessary changes, most people tend to feel helpless and carry on (until the next one).

The best we can do is make gun policy a higher priority when we hit the voting booths.

That might mean voting for someone who isn't exactly your first choice on other topics, but you have a choice that can make a difference -- don't vote for candidates that have A ratings from the NRA and constantly spew bullshit to justify inaction when it comes to sensible gun-related legislation.

Agree, but I'm afraid that "someone" is no where on the Radar!