GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Duchess]

Republicans don't appear to know how to govern, if they do, they are keeping it a secret. They control everything and still can't get shit done. Often times it seems as if there are two or more parties in the Republican party alone.

[Maggot]

They don't walk lockstep no matter the right or the wrong of things like Democrats do. There is free will.

[Duchess]

They don't walk lockstep no matter the right or the wrong of things like Democrats do. There is free will.

Ahahaha! Do you not pay attention to current events!? Just today alone I heard at least two Republicans talking about Roy Moore and their opinion is that they'd rather have him, a pedophile, than any stinkin' Democrat.

[Duchess]

...and furthermore, every Republican who is not running for re-election are the ONLY Republicans who are choosing to put country ahead of party. So please with the "they don't walk lockstep no matter the right or the wrong of things like Democrats do". Pfft.

[Maggot]

I do not believe there is a "better" party than the other. Democrats frame the narrative so anything bad that happens is the republicans fault, anything good that happens is because they did it. republicans do the same and some from both parties are real assholes. as it has been for many years and will remain. Both parties are in it for the money and I do not see any of them clamoring for private sector jobs.
The "bi-partisan" created laws are few and far between. But I believe republicans have a tough time staying with the group because they are conflicted with this or that issue. It doesn't make them bad people as the dems have turned on Donna Brazil for displaying the democrat follies that everyone knew about, except their voting base. Like a pack of hungry wolves they are coming down hard on her for going off the plantation. Republicans are not shunned for their individualistic tendencies so much, instead they are applauded for it by Democrats. Which in itself is LOL funny.

[HairOfTheDog]

Two things F.U. has long been preaching:

(1) Lack of enforcement of existing laws is the real problem with gun crime.
(2) Criminals will always find a way around current gun laws.

We've seen the first point play out in a couple of the mass murders that have recently gone down -- where government agencies have either put the legally-sold guns into the killers' hands despite red flags which should have been in the NICS background database, or LE has failed to take away illegally-owned firearms when they had multiple chances.

In the case of the recent mass killings here in Northern California, the cops were called multiple times by neighbors about the unstable killer shooting off rounds at all hours. The sheriff said each complaint was investigated, but killer Neal was never home.

LE never bothered to get a warrant to search and seize the guns and arrest Neal for violating a court order prohibiting him from gun ownership. When asked why, the Sheriff said, "gun laws were made for people who follow them." What the fuck? Neal went on to kill four people and shot up an elementary school which had fortunately gone into quick lockdown before he could infiltrate.

[HairOfTheDog]

In the case of Neal, the second point also played out. The guns he used to kill the victims were what's called 'ghost guns'. They're apparently popping up all over the place and don't have registration numbers, so they can't be traced back to anyone.

It’s legal to build such a gun in a home or a workshop, and advances in 3-D printing and milling have made it easier to do so. Kits can be purchased legally for $450 to $1,000 from hundreds of websites without the kind of background check required for traditional gun purchases.

While making a ghost gun is legal, selling one is not. Federal officials are sounding the alarm about an increasing black market for homemade military-style semi-automatic rifles and handguns.

Mills where such weapons are built are popping up across the country and especially in California, which has strict gun laws. By 2019, people who own or create homemade firearms in California will have to apply for a serial number from the state and permanently affix it to the weapon.

I'm hoping the new bi-partisan gun legislation underway not only puts heavy pressure on the military and mental health officials to report into NICS, but also looks at requiring LE to pursue illegal possession charges aggressively. And, of course, universal background checks should be mandatory; it's long past time.

It also sure seems like a good idea for the feds to be proactive and require all ghost guns to have a registration number affixed and on file. I know many criminals wouldn't register the ghost guns regardless, but it would give LE an opportunity to arrest people in possession of unregistered ghost guns or up the charges if they're discovered in the commission of another crime.

More about ghost guns: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/...story.html

[F.U.]

80% receivers are what the have called "ghost guns" . They don't even require a mill to finish them out. I have one myself and I will be building it using nothing more than a drill press.
Like you said they are legal to build for personal use. Its not until you decide to sell it that you will need to engrave a serial # into it. After that it gets sold just like any other firearm.
You can buy them for a AR15 , a AK47, or even a 1911 handgun.

[HairOfTheDog]

You can buy them for a AR15 , a AK47, or even a 1911 handgun.

Yeah, Neal bought the 80% receivers for AR15s and built two of them, which he used to carry out the mass/spree shooting here.

He would have failed a background check if he'd tried to purchase ready-to-fire firearms because he'd recently stabbed his neighbor and was awaiting trial. He was out on bond and prohibited from buying or possessing guns.

It pisses me off, F.U. The Sheriff keeps trying to act like there was nothing LE could have done because Neal built his guns and therefore wasn't subject to a background check. That's CYA fucking bullshit. The background check is a first-line filter. It doesn't mean LE has no obligation to enforce the law if a criminal gets around the background check.

The Sheriff had multiple complaints about gunshots fired by Neal, someone LE knew full well was unstable, dangerous, and prohibited from possessing firearms (which includes ghost guns, obviously, no matter how the sheriff tries to muddy the waters).

Frustrating to see so much ineptitude in these cases by sheriffs, the FBI, the military....when it comes to enforcement of existing laws.

[F.U.]

In the 80% state it is not a firearm, so no paperwork/background checks are required. It is just a paperweight at that state. If they start regulating these at 80% they will just start selling 79%, or 60% or what ever. The point is that we can build our own firearms, for personal use, legally and no one can stop it.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't care whether people build their own guns, as long as the kits are solid and don't result in a final product that poses a safety threat to the gun owner.

My point was that LE's claim that nothing could be done to stop the spree shooter in Northern California because the shooter bypassed a background check by building his own guns...... is untrue. He could/should have been arrested for illegal possession. The ghost guns were fully functional when neighbors complained about him firing them off at all hours, they weren't paper weights at that point. But, LE dropped the ball (again) in terms of enforcing the existing law.

In terms of preventative measures.........purchasers of DIY kits (regardless of 80%, 60%, 40%) could be subject to background checks and those guns could be required to be serialized/registered, like other firearms. I hope that happens and that bump stocks get banned.

[F.U.]

[quote='HairOfTheDog' pid='462179' dateline='1511451781']

, LE dropped the ball (again) in terms of enforcing the existing law.

/quote]

I have ben saying that is the problem for a long time now. We do not need new laws. We need existing laws enforced.

[HairOfTheDog]

I knew you were right that existing laws weren't enforced aggressively enough, F.U. But, I didn't realize how bad that problem was until the recent mass/spree shootings.

I support the new bi-partisan bill being drafted to mandate better reporting to NICS and enforcement of current laws.

However, I still feel some new legislation (like for ghost guns and bump stocks) is required and that LE should be working proactively to stay ahead of, or at least catch up to, criminals who find ways around gun laws. I have no confidence that they are doing that presently. Hopefully, that will change.

[HairOfTheDog]

State bans on 'assault weapons' upheld by Supreme Court

The Supreme Court turned away an appeal from Maryland gun owners who challenged the state's ban on the assault weapons, which were used in recent mass shootings in a south Texas church and at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas.

The justices left in place a federal appeals court ruling that cast doubt on whether ownership of assault weapons is protected by the Constitution, while upholding the Maryland law that does not permit the sale of a range of semi-automatic weapons and large-capacity magazines.

"It ought to be a lesson to all states, and I would hope that they would look at the 4^th Circuit's decision and the tragic events around the country and come to the conclusion that this is a common-sense law," said Maryland AG Brian Frosh.

Maryland passed the sweeping gun-control measure after the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre that killed 20 children and six educators in Connecticut. It bans 45 kinds of assault weapons and puts a 10-round limit on gun magazines.

The high court has not re-entered the debate over guns since rulings in 2008 and 2010 that held that Americans have a constitutional right to have guns for self-defense in their homes and that local governments could not ban handguns.

The justices also declined an appeal asserting a constitutional right to carry firearms openly in public.

Full piece: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-cou...apons-ban/

[Duchess]

If I ever find myself in the company of a bunch of people I don't know openly carrying, I am out of there. I'm not going to feel comfortable at all and I'm sure as shit not going to feel any safer.

[HairOfTheDog]

If I ever find myself in the company of a bunch of people I don't know openly carrying, I am out of there. I'm not going to feel comfortable at all and I'm sure as shit not going to feel any safer.

How about if they're conceal-carrying?

Currently, gun owners are legally required to be authorized/permitted by each state in which they want to conceal-carry.

That might change soon. Amid all the current political flurry, House Republicans quietly rammed through a bill that would allow conceal-carry permits issued in one state to be valid across all other states that allow conceal carry. The NRA has been pushing hard for the change, of course. The bill has now moved to the Senate.

So, despite the recent mass shootings with hundreds of victims in Vegas, Texas, and Northern California, bump stocks are still legal, we still don't have universal background checks, there are no controls whatsoever on the sell and purchase of ghost gun kits, etc........BUT this legislation to loosen gun control is moving along.

Story: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio...story.html

[Duchess]

How about if they're conceal-carrying?

Shiiiit. No.

This kinda thing does not make me feel safer. Just the opposite. It's unnerving. I'm not the most trusting person.

[HairOfTheDog]

Court: No right to carry concealed weapons in public

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/201.../85656768/

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome liberty.

Yes, that's for California state only.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — In a victory for gun control advocates, a federal appeals court said Thursday people do not have a right to carry concealed weapons in public under the 2^nd Amendment.

An 11-judge panel of the 9^th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said law enforcement officials can require applicants for a concealed weapons permit to show they are in immediate danger or have another good reason for a permit beyond self-defense.

[Maggot]

Texas father kills robber that pulled a gun on him and his family inside a Popeye's

link