GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Maggot]

It’s getting to be old hat.

I said it many years ago, and it rings truer than ever:

Pray you and your loved ones are never in the wrong place at the wrong time when a nut with a gun is on the loose.

.
If that ever happens, you have two choices.

One, zig-zag run like hell and pray you don't get hit.

Or two, put you head down between you legs and kiss you ass goodby!

Or pull out your 9 mm from your vest holder and find a corner then get in a crouching position and control your breathing.

[Midwest Spy]

It’s getting to be old hat.

I said it many years ago, and it rings truer than ever:

Pray you and your loved ones are never in the wrong place at the wrong time when a nut with a gun is on the loose.

.
If that ever happens, you have two choices.

One, zig-zag run like hell and pray you don't get hit.

Or two, put you head down between you legs and kiss you ass goodby!

Or pull out your 9 mm from your vest holder and find a corner then get in a crouching position and control your breathing.

LOL!

Tell that to the victims of the Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris.

The editor of the magazine had an armed body guard with him and they were both blown away.

When someone arrives with an AR-15 and has surprise on their side, kiss your ass goodbye.

[Maggot]

That was a military exercise, they were toast that morning over a loaf of bread and some wine. They went in full bore.

[Duchess]

The majority of lawmakers don't care if you and your families are safe. That's a general "you". They didn't care when a classroom of little kids were shot & killed and they don't care now and they aren't going to care in the future. I'd tell y'all to show your displeasure when it comes time to vote but hey, they don't care that the Russians are actively working to affect that either.

[crash]

The theory that US gun laws are Darwins theory of natural selection at work is ringing true.

[Duchess]

Start this around the 55 mark. This is what the kids heard from inside their classroom -

[Midwest Spy]

That was a military exercise, they were toast that morning over a loaf of bread and some wine. They went in full bore.

They were in an unmarked office building on a normal looking street.

2 men intent on murder, waited outside the entrance until someone let them in.

They walked upstairs, and walked in on a meeting in progress.

There, they systematically executed the ones they wanted to kill, including the armed body guard.

There were no grenades or smoke bombs to incapacitate the victims.

It was the element of surprise, and the trained and armed body guard had no chance.

[Maggot]

I don't know as much about the attack as you seem to know M.s. but from wikpedia.............

Cartoonist Stéphane "Charb" Charbonnier, murdered in the attack on the magazine, had been the editor-in-chief of Charlie Hebdo since 2009. Two years before the attack he stated, "We have to carry on until Islam has been rendered as banal as Catholicism." In 2013, al-Qaeda added him to its most wanted list, along with three Jyllands-Posten staff members: Kurt Westergaard, Carsten Juste, and Flemming Rose. Being a sport shooter, Charb applied for permit to be able to carry a firearm for self-defence. The application, however, went unanswered.

Not sure if that would have made a difference though. Considering the adversary.

[HairOfTheDog]

Smart Gun Control Legislation Coming Soon?

--President Donald Trump took action on Tuesday to outlaw bump stocks like the one used in the Las Vegas shooting last fall.

--Trump is reportedly also mulling legislation to strengthen existing background check and federal firearms laws in the wake of last week's Florida massacre.

--The White House has cautiously endorsed a bipartisan bill that would punish states and federal agencies that don't adequately update background check system.

--President Trump will hold a listening session with survivors of shootings, parents and teachers tomorrow and then make a decision about next steps, the White House says.

--White House press secretary Sarah Sanders also said that Trump had not closed the door on new gun controls, including an assault weapons ban that is unpopular with the president's base. He's also looking at more focus on mental health issues, she said.

I'll believe it when I see the legislation get passed, which I really hope it does.

Story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z57h4I8QEs

[HairOfTheDog]

I watched the CNN Town Hall with survivors of the Florida high school shooting last night and the speeches by NRA reps Dana Loesch and Wayne La Pierre at CPAC this morning.

I didn't hear anyone at the Town Hall say that they didn't support the Second Amendment; most of them volunteered that they did support it. But, some of them also said that they don't believe it applies to assault rifles being sold to people under 21, especially when there's a well-documented history of complaints, violence and mental instability.

I disagreed with the sheriff and some of the kids and parents who seemed to think it was inappropriate to discuss the failures or perceived failures of law enforcement in the Florida school mass shooting and others. I think it's critical to look at all of them and fix the fucking problems, not only in regards to lack of information being supplied to NICS for adequate background checking, but also with law enforcement training/commitment to prevention and response.

But, the NRA is still claiming to its members and the country that pushing for better control is a case of lefties with "European Socialist" agendas trying to take everyone's guns away. Bullshit.

The NRA objected to universal background checks. The NRA objects to limiting high capacity magazines. The NRA won't even consider a ban on certain guns, even when there would still be plenty of guns available for self-defense.

Florida Senator Marco Rubio has received over $3,000,000 in political support from the NRA. He showed up and participated in the Town Hall last night. Good on him. Governor Scott and President Trump declined the invitation.

Rubio wouldn't commit to considering a ban on AR-15s, but he did say he disagreed with the idea of arming teachers, he supported raising the age limit for purchasing rifles to 21, and he seemed to imply that he supported Red Flag legislation to make it easier for law enforcement to involuntarily commit someone who's shown to be violent and threatening (which would then be grounds to disqualify the person from gun ownership IF reported to NICS and to have his/her guns taken away). I support that too, but suspect the ACLU would not.

Where I agreed with La Pierre: the NICS system is only effective at keeping guns out of the wrong hands if the authorities across states report disqualifying information into it. Right now, as we've seen in almost every recent mass shooting, the NICS database is woefully incomplete. Serious pressure needs to be put on the local and state LE, courts, military and medical professionals to report the necessary information to be entered into NICS. That needs to start now.

[Duchess]

That's really shameful of Gov. Scott.

[Maggot]

Why not make project exile nationwide. It worked well in Rochester. Maxine Waters didn't like it though.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Seems like that would take pretty good care of the felons with multiple arrests for gun violations.
Would not have stopped this school shooting, or any of the ones I can easily recall, but its a step in the right direction.

[Maggot]

This guy ................



Was berating the NRA getting the audience clapping on his talking points. This is the guy that knew HIS deputy was at the shooting in Florida not out that day and was indeed outside of the building afraid to go in as children were getting killed and teachers were throwing their bodies in front of the shooter.

He heard the shots and did not go in Scott Peterson the coward of Brower county. This Sheriff knew it was his guy as he sat there making excuses and blaming everyone else. This is the reason schools are not protected and the reason Politicians and the FBI are complicit in this entire thing. It is NOT the second amendment. It is human error and as time goes by the truth will come out.

Schools need protection and in a conversation I had with a couple of teachers they are fine with certain teachers having a concealed gun in fact that's what they want. Protection not idiots going on a tangent about the second amendment.

One of them brought up a point though she said a school in Arkansas or Alabama was going to do just that but the insurance company that covered the school would not cover them if they did it, something I have never thought of but is a valid point.

[HairOfTheDog]

I've been reading and listening to a lot of interviews from both sides of the aisle and apolitical people for the last week, Maggot.

I have not heard any of them, not one, claim that the Second Amendment is the problem here. The whole "attack on the Second Amendment" spiel is the same tired old NRA line that gets tossed out ad nasuem whenever the push for better gun safety and control legislation arises.

What I have heard cited as the problem by students, teachers, victims' families, politicians, LE:

--inadequate control of guns,
--easy access to assault weapons and high capacity magazines by non-military and youth,
--gaps in background check requirements,
--incomplete NICS records,
--inadequate LE follow-up and response,
--unprotected schools,
--lack of enforcement of existing laws,
--NRA influence and control over politicians,
--lack of mental health treatment and reporting for those flagged as a violent threat...

Taking action to address/resolve some or all of those problems is not a threat to the Second Amendment right to bear arms in a well-regulated fashion, as stipulated in the Constitution.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I agree mostly.
There IS an attack on the 2^nd every time there is a shooting like this
Florida did it last week before the bodies were in the ground.

[HairOfTheDog]

Unless I missed some action in Florida whereby the government attempted to ban all guns and confiscate existing ones, there was no attack on the Second Amendment there last week.

[Duchess]

Unless I missed some action in Florida whereby the government attempted to ban all guns and confiscate existing ones, there was no attack on the Second Amendment there last week.

I spent some time last night looking for information, looking for people attacking the 2^nd amendment, looking for people who want to take away all the guns, etc. I did that because Six accused me of not hearing what was out there because I didn't want to. I didn't find anything at all that resembled that, nothing. What I did find was a number of people associated with the NRA making baseless accusations.

[Maggot]

Anyone with any grey matter between their ears can understand the gist of what is going on, if that's all you got from my post and decide to pick that apart. That's fine but if a movement to get rid of the second amendment was ever introduced i'm sure plenty of Dems would be biting and clamoring over each other to vote yes. I say enforce the current laws and with prejudice and more criminals would be less armed.

You wont find the words " we need to abolish the 2^nd amendment" with any nutty Google search. They want to get re-elected. you have to read between the lines like the Mamas and the Papas sang. Lets get with the program here.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

This took all of 4 seconds
Fortunately the State of Florida rejected the bill

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/florid...index.html

Florida Legislature rejects weapons ban with massacre survivors en route to Capitol

The Florida state House on Tuesday rejected a ban on many semiautomatic guns and large capacity magazines as dozens of survivors of last week's school shooting headed to the state Capitol to turn their grief into political action.

Lawmakers voted down a motion to consider the ban during a session that opened with a prayer for the 17 people killed by a former student last Wednesday at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. The vote in the Republican-dominated body was 36-71.
Stoneman Douglas students in the gallery of the Capitol during the vote appeared stunned.
"It was just so heartbreaking to see how many (voters') names were up there, especially after it was my school," Sheryl Acquaroli, a 16-year-old junior from Stoneman Douglas, who was crying, later told "Anderson Cooper 360˚." "It seemed almost heartless how they immediately pushed the button to say no."
Spencer Blum, one of her schoolmates, said he felt like lawmakers weren't representing him and other survivors of the shooting.
"That's unacceptable," he said of the vote, adding later: "It shows that they don't care about us."
Sheryl Acquaroli, a 16-year-old junior from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, is overcome with emotion in the gallery of the House of Representatives after the vote.
Sheryl said the next person who is killed by an AR-15 like the one used at her school will be the fault of the 71 people who voted no Tuesday.
"They had a chance to stop it today," she said. "If there is another mass shooting (in Florida) it's going to be their fault."
House Rep. Kionne McGhee of Miami invoked the Parkland shooting in requesting that HB 219 -- which would ban AR-15 rifles and other guns defined as "assault weapons" and large capacity magazines -- be moved from committee to the House floor for questions, debate and a vote.
"I ask that you keep this bill and the conversation about the solution to combat mass shootings alive," McGhee, Democratic ranking member on the Children, Families & Seniors Subcommittee, told the House before the vote.
"While this is an extraordinary procedural move, the shooting in Parkland demands extraordinary action."
With subcommittees set to consider the bill not scheduled to meet this session, the bill is effectively dead, McGhee said.
The bill's sponsor angrily took to social media.
"17 pp in Parkland were just murdered w/an AR-15, + the FL House just passed @RossSpano's HR 157 declaring PORN as a public heath risk. No, GUN VIOLENCE is a public health crisis + Spano blocked HB 219 banning assault weapons in his committee for 2 yrs," said Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith from Orlando.
Florida Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, held a roundtable on school safety Tuesday. He said he planned to have a proposal by Friday.
"My goal is to come up with something that is going to move the needle and make parents feel more comfortable that their kid's going to go to a safe school. That's the goal," he said. "These kids have got to go to safe schools."
Under the rallying cry #NeverAgain, dozens of students and staff who survived the Florida school shooting departed earlier Tuesday for the Capitol, where they hope to speak with lawmakers Wednesday about school safety and gun control.
While some students had arrived at the Capitol earlier and were there when the vote took place, many taking buses were eating at an Orlando rest stop when they learned of the legislative defeat.
Diego Pfeiffer, 18, a senior at Stoneman Douglas, acknowledged the issue has multiple perspectives and likened the need to toughen gun control to the fight to end slavery and the suffrage movement.
"On great decisions in the past, there have been two sides and the good side always wins out in the end, and that's what I am hopeful for when I get to Tallahassee," he said.
The students arrived at Leon High School in Tallahassee late Tuesday. Several hundred supporters cheered them on.
"We're fighting for the friends we lost. We're fighting for the future kids that we're going to have, and that's why we're marching and that's why we're here talking to our senators and our representatives," Sofie Whitney told the crowd.
Pfeiffer said: "This isn't about school shootings, and this isn't about ... violence anymore, this is about hope. This is about moving forward with everybody. This is about you guys. This is about everybody here making a difference."