Women in combat...

[Misguided]

OK.

[username]

OK.

Treading lightly?

Two women entered the marine infantry course last year; both failed to complete it.

[Duchess]

Two women entered the marine infantry course last year; both failed to complete it.

Good. I'll take that to mean that whatever guidelines they use are working.

I'm not ever going to have a problem with capable, qualified people doing a job whether they are male or female.

[Misguided]

No User,not treading lightly.What you said gave me the impression that you think women have experienced combat already and have a full understaning of what it is all about.
I most definatly disagree but I am not going to argue the point.
You did not ask a question,just made a comment.
The complications and repercussions of this decision will come out as the experiences of those women are revealed to the public and the press.
If you analize the human mindset,both male and female, relating to how they may handle the pressures of combat and the horrors,you would get a understanding of where my concerns lie and those of many others,although they may be different,they are still very much a concern worth considering.Especially to those getting ready to experience a new era of those serving in the military.
I believe those who made these decisions,in the name of politicial correctness and "fairness",..are not the ones who will pay the price for it.

[Duchess]

Tell them all they have to poop in front of men & they'll be singing a different tune.

[username]

No User,not treading lightly.What you said gave me the impression that you think women have experienced combat already and have a full understaning of what it is all about.
I most definatly disagree but I am not going to argue the point.
You did not ask a question,just made a comment.
The complications and repercussions of this decision will come out as the experiences of those women are revealed to the public and the press.
If you analize the human mindset,both male and female, relating to how they may handle the pressures of combat and the horrors,you would get a understanding of where my concerns lie and those of many others,although they may be different,they are still very much a concern worth considering.Especially to those getting ready to experience a new era of those serving in the military.
I believe those who made these decisions,in the name of politicial correctness and "fairness",..are not the ones who will pay the price for it.

What do you mean you're not going to argue the point? I put this in discussions, opinions and debates for a reason. If I don't want your opinion, I'll tell you, dammit!

If I'm understanding you, you believe that women aren't as emotionally capable of handling the rigors of combat, correct? I did find a few articles indicating that women are more likely to suffer PTSD than men. I sniped this from one:



Women's exposure to traumatic events and PTSD in the military
Until recently, the majority of studies that have examined the effects of war-related trauma exposure have focused on male Veterans. This has changed with women's increasing participation and expanding role in military deployments. (32, 33) Researchers have become increasingly interested in understanding women's exposure to traumatic events in the military and their impact on mental health outcomes. (34-36)




While women are less likely to be exposed to circumstances of combat, women are more likely to experience military sexual trauma (MST; sexual harassment and sexual assault) compared with men. (33,37,38) Estimates based on a survey of active duty personnel revealed that 78% of women had experienced sexual harassment and 6% had experienced rape or completed rape (compared to rates of 38% and 1% for men, respectively. (39) Estimates based on a slightly different definition of sexual harassment were 55% for sexual harassment and 23% for sexual assault among female users of VA health-care services. (40) Current statistics indicate that women make up approximately 15% of all military personnel serving in Iraq. Anecdotal evidence suggests that these women are at risk for both combat exposure and sexual assault. (41) Early findings indicate that women Veterans returning from Iraq are slightly more likely to report mental health concerns (e.g., PTSD, depression, suicidal thoughts) compared with men (24% compared to 19%). (42) Future studies are needed to explore the impact of this potential dual burden on PTSD severity.

[Misguided]

Well,..first off,..I'm posting before reading what you just put up as I'm popping in and out during a project I got going on right now...but..
Nah,..that is not exactly what I mean but yes,partially.It is also revelant to how men handle it also.
Allright,...this may take quite a few posts to get my full point out but if you have the patience to hang,...I'll explain...
Consider this,...now this is just one aspect of quite a few points..
During WW2 and also Vietnam,..it would happen that the enemy would snipe our soldiers.But they would do so differently than you would think.Shoot to wound so they would suffer and scream causing other soldiers to try to rescue them.You may have seen it in some of the hollywood movies a bit.Those who serve together devolop bonds civilians cannot fathom.They will risk all for each other.Sometimes doing so beyond reasonable limits or thoughts.Like the guy who jumps on the grenade to save others.Exactly the mindset,I speak of but jumping on a grenade is reasoned,although impulsive at the same time.
Hearing and watching fellow soldier suffer and die while you watch and listen adds a much different enviroment and torment.Some act without thought or reason.
Now,..add to the mix women.Just in that one situation.Lets consider a baddass WM(Woman Marine).She has devoloped that bond with her male warriors and they are tight(strong emotional bond between them).Either she is out there or she is listening.How will she react?How will they?Has this situation or one similar played out before in the statistics you read or see?How would men deal with rape of a fellow female soldier by the enemy?Ever heard or read how a man would or has reacted to his wife,daughter or mother being raped and being able to have a gun or weapon in their hand at that moment while in the presence of the attacker...or not being able to do anything.Think that would set well with them?How will women deal that scenerio of being raped.
It's different to sit out here in the World and discuss this in a Forum.Just try to really get into the scenerio of being in that situation tho and consider how that could play out?
It is not a remote possibility at all.The enemy we deal with these days are the sort who would love to have a woman captive,either due to their religious beliefs or hatred for us.Christ,. women of their same faith get beheaded and killed because of the atrocieties that THE MEN COMMITT on the woman! I can see how they would want to punish the women of our country who actually fight against them and kill them.
Just one point to think of...

[Duchess]

That was a great post.

[Midwest Spy]

Anybody remember the movie 'Aliens' from 1986?

There was a female marine in that movie who was tough as nails. I could see women like that in combat.

But, my own personal preference would be to NOT have women on the so-called 'front lines'. Not that there's really trench-warfare anymore.

However, if there are women who really want to be in combat units, I say let them go through the rigors and if they qualify, let them. I definitely want it to be through personal choice that a woman ends up in a combat unit.

[Misguided]

MS..I dont think their will be that"personal choice" option.I assume it will be that since they are "equal" they will be assigned as everyone else to combat units and support units.
My thoughts about this issue is to enter into this slowly and see what happens and the problems encountered,meaning assign small groups to those combat units in different area's and capacities and see how it plays out instead of just opening the floodgates and implementing it as quickly as possible.

[Misguided]

There are def women like Sigourney in the military but they are not the real norm...but I believe when this is implemented,...it will be all women to serve and not just the hardass's.
If that turns out to be true,this is one way of what I mean by the fact women will come to regret this milestone.
I do believe that if this is what women believe it means to be equal and they wish this,it should not also mean a double standard like it is in the civilian workforce where women want equal pay but dont,want or cant do the physical work of those certain jobs they demand equal pay for..Equal pay means also equal work.It should be across the board.
If they implement this in the military,..they should not have the option to "opt out" of combat duty because they dont think they can handle the mental or physical aspects of it.
I really believe so many more studies should be done on this and all the women in the military should have a say so in the decision to pursue this.They all should be told of what will be expected and what to expect in combat and not by what they think it involves.If they are given all the facts and know what they have to deliver and then still choose to do this....well,...then,...have a go at it.
I just really dont think it has been presented to them all.I think this is more about politicians and a chosen few hardasses who think this is what is best for all.
Of course,I could be wrong.I was wrong once before in my life.

[Duchess]

I read that Canada has had women in combat since 1989 and Israel, France, Norway, Australia and New Zealand are among countries that allow women to fight. I haven't spent a lot of time reading about this but from what I have it's proving difficult to find women who want to share their experience in an honest, open way. I haven't found anything yet that addresses some of the questions Misguided raised.

Reading that man talk about men pooping in a bag inches in front of their comrades freaked me out a little & I know without a shadow of doubt I could never do that, I would find a bullet to my brain more appealing.

[username]

Well there ya' go. If women can fight for a country like Canada...oh, wait.

[Misguided]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAy7eDS8J...e=youtu.be

OK...I'll keep a open mind,if this badass says he has faith.I think the fucker should get his damn front teeth fixed tho...

[HairOfTheDog]

They all should be told of what will be expected and what to expect in combat and not by what they think it involves.If they are given all the facts and know what they have to deliver and then still choose to do this....well,...then,...have a go at it.

I agree that the harshness of combat conditions for women and the possible after effects should be openly presented to applicants. If it's difficult to get female soldiers to talk about their past experiences, it might be a challenge to paint a really accurate picture. Rolling it out in stages could work, as you suggested.

I would never wanna do it, but if there are women who do and they pass all of the physical requirements and other tests, I think that they should be given the opportunity, as long as it doesn't get to the point where there are quotas for females in combat or anything like that. I agree with Duchess and user; assignments should be based on whomever's best to do the job (especially in this context where there are lives on the line).

[Maggot]

I have a hard time visualizing a woman saying "Get the fuck outta the way........KILL-EM!!!" ...................Oh, wait a min............

[username]

I understand some of Misguided's posts way more than what I've heard from some talking heads. More than one has said if we allow women in combat they should also be in the NFL or NHL. Eyeroll to the point where I could see my hair roots.

[aussiefriend]

God bless our soldiers that fight for us overseas, but as for me or Duchess signing up for combat.....does the expression "not in a million years" mean anything to ya?

[Midwest Spy]

I'm not super familiar with this issue, but who exactly has been pining for women to be allowed into combat units?

I understand there are some super butch women in the military (I knew some of them).

My POV again is, if a woman would like to serve in a combat unit, she should be allowed to 'try out' so to speak. If she meets the requirements, then let her in.

I would not want fresh 18 and 19 year old girls/women right out of basic training immediately assigned to an infantry unit. No way.

[QueenBee]

I find interesting the argument against being that "mothers are being taken away from their children". Thing is, does it mean that it is perfectly OK to take fathers away from their children?