OSCAR PISTORIUS MURDER TRIAL: the blade runner oscar pistorius shoots girlfriend

[Eat Shit And Die]

don't forget the handpicked jury.

[Jimbone]

They won't have that issue in SA, right? This is a judge trial i think...

[HairOfTheDog]

OJ got off by good lawyers making big issue out of police errors, character assassination of police investigators and methods, and taking advantage of prosecutor mistakes.

We're not even really into this case yet, and how many of those factors have already occurred in favor of the defense for Pistorious?

All of them.

I hope you are right however. If he killed her intentionally it'd be a shame for someone to get away with such a heinous crime.

What you described in OJ's case isn't corruption; it happens in court rooms around the world every day. The defense betters the prosecution and exploits its weaknesses, legitimately or through shady tactics.

You said that Pistorius will walk because of corruption, primarily money. That's the point with which I would bet against you. If Pistorius does walk, corruption/money won't be the reasons with the whole world watching and analyzing a criminal murder trial for the shooting of this particular victim under these circumstances, imo.

Even if Pisotrius didn't kill her intentionally (or it can't be proven that he did), he will not walk. In that case, he killed someone intentionally because he acted recklessly. Wrongful death at the hands of Pistorius is not disputed as it was in OJ's case.

I don't think Pistorius will get off scot-free in any case. We know he killed Reeva, the only questions are "why?" and to some degree "how?". It's a completely different scenario. The only thing the cases have in common are famous athletes being charged with murder.

We'll see.

ETA: as ESAD noted, jury vs. judge is another big difference between the cases...

[NightOwl]

Pistorius looked more cheerful to-day and his family. I was hoping the Steenkamp's would show up in court, having just buried their daughter it's understandable but, an appearance in court would maybe help their daughter. Reeva's mother has cried out "why" why did he shoot my angel?

Detective Botha has been sacked now after 24 years this is very very odd! someone wanted rid of him. He botched the steroids we are being told it's a herbal remedy. So no steroids means no "roid rage" he cannot get off the hook there.

Still don't know what happened between him and her, did she get an Ipad message and he went into a rage and she fled to the bathroom to hide.

He's going to get bail I'm afraid. Thinking of you Reeva RIP.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think Pistorius will be granted bail too, NightOwl. Unless the prosecution introduces some strong new argument regarding flight risk tomorrow, I believe that he'll be released and restricted to his home (and/or a family member's home), have his passport taken, have his guns removed, be subject to alcohol testing, and maybe have some other conditions placed upon him to ensure no witness communication.

I hope we're both wrong because I think his entire story is unbelievable (and no matter who he thought was behind that bathroom door, he shot to kill). Even according to his own account, this wasn't an accidental shooting.

Tomorrow should be an interesting day in court.

[Eat Shit And Die]

his defense team might argue he's not a flight risk but he surely is a crawl risk...

[Duchess]

He was granted bail.

[HairOfTheDog]

Pistorius is being processed for release to his family. Not sure of the bail amount or the conditions yet.

Here's Judge Nair's decision summary in granting bail.

• He (Judge Nair) did not think Pistorius was a flight risk.
• He did not think the prosecution had shown that Pistorius had a propensity for violence.
• He did not think the prosecution had shown their would be public outrage if he were released on bail.
• He did not think the prosecution’s case was so strong that Pistorius’s only reasonable reaction were he released would be to flee.

But he also pointed out holes in Pistorius’s story which may prove important when the case comes to trial:

• Why did he not ascertain Steenkamp's wherabouts?
• Why did he not verify who was in the toilet?
• Why did Steenkamp not scream back from the toilet?
• Why did the deceased and the accused not escape through the bedroom door rather than venture into the toilet?
• Why would the accused venture into danger knowing the intruder was in the toilet, leaving himself open to attack? He returned to the dangerous area. What if the intruder was waiting for him?
• Nair also said that he had difficulty with the defence's version of why the accused slept on the other side of the bed from usual that night.

Imo, the bottom line for him agreeing to bail is that he thought that Detective Botha did a terrible job in vetting and presenting evidence to the court regarding the crime itself and the issue of flight risk (I agree; glad he's out). But, Nair stated that Botha's weaknesses in the bail hearing do not weaken the state's case and that he (Nair) has major concerns with some of the improbabilities in Pistorius's account.

Nair stipulated that he was not addressing the probability of guilt today. He did not grant bail based on the strength of Pistorius's defense. He agreed to bail because the state failed to prove sufficiently that Pistorius was a flight risk (he also mentioned jail overcrowding).

Reading Nair's deliberations sequentially, as he explained them to the court today, was interesting to me. It's not a long read. You can choose "oldest first" view in the article linked below to see everything that he considered in order and what led to his decision. It was a rollercoaster. At several points I thought he was building up to denying bail. I think this was a tough call for him.

All here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/201...e-coverage

[HairOfTheDog]

Bail conditions now included at article linked above.

I thought his movements would be more restricted. Ah well.

Upon payment of the 100,000 rand, Pistorius must adhere to the following conditions:

• He appears in court on 4 June at 8.30am.
• He surrenders all passports.
• He refrains from applying for any passports.
• He refrains from entering any airport.
• He surrenders all firearms.
• He refrains from possessing any firearms.
• He refrains from talking to any witnesses for the prosecution.
• He will have a probation officer and correctional official from the date of release until the conclusion of the case.
• He shall inform the official all his movements and ask for permission for any journeys outside Pretoria.
• He shall give them a phone number and must be contactable day and night.
• He must not be charged with an offence of violence against women.
• He must not use drugs or alcohol.
• He must not return to his home and not make contact with any residents of his estate except the Stander family.

I used an internet currency converter. 100,000 rand = appx $885,000 USD.

[Eat Shit And Die]

absolute joke, i hope he kills again while on bail.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think it was a tough call for the judge, and the wrong call in terms of public safety and securing the defendant. I understand legally why he ruled as he did, but I think Pistorius is dangerous and not above pulling a runner.

I'm glad Botha's out of the picture now, he blew the credibility for the state and allowed the defense to get the upper hand in the matter of bail, imo. The new Lead Investigator has until June to do his homework and have a much stronger case to present. Till then, I expect to see Pistorius, his family, and his lawyer all over the media working a public relations campaign. Good thing this isn't trial by jury.

Pistorius allegedly commented yesterday that he'd be out by today and ready to resume training. Shame he was right. Reeva's family was there today to represent her, but I don't think they're going to comment on the decision. I'd be pissed off if I were them.

[Eat Shit And Die]

I hope he kills again, he is clearly very unstable, do you remember his interview after coming second to the brazilian at olympics, or when he stropped and stormed off that interview cant remember the interviewer, hes clearly got temper problems.

I reckon he will kill himself.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't remember that specifically, but I did read that he spazzed when he lost a race for the first time in the Paralympics recently and accused the winner (might have been Brazilian) of cheating; saying his opponent's type of blades gave him an unfair advantage or something. He was dogged by the press and then apologized.

You might be right; I could see him killing himself, but I don't think it's likely while he's on bail. I think he has a lot of enablers who will help him avoid taking responsibility and encourage his belief that he'll be able to make this go away.

I think it's pretty clear he shot that gun in the Johannesburg restaurant and got his friend to cop to it (LE better be all over that guy right about now). When he crashed that boat a couple of years back and witnesses said he was drinking and driving recklessly, his blood was not tested (even though there was evidence of heavy drinking in the boat) and he wasn't charged. He messed himself up badly in that accident and was in the hospital. I think that he has a history of thinking that he's above repercussions and getting away with it. I don't think authorities are inclined to give him any special treatment or look the other way at this time, considering the gravity of what he's done by killing Reeva. And, I don't think he can buy his way out of this.

I think it's more likely that he would kill himself if he is found guilty and is sentenced to any real length of time in jail; when reality hits and he's forced off his pedestal.

[Eat Shit And Die]

I don't remember that specifically, but I did read that he spazzed when he lost a race for the first time in the Paralympics recently and accused the winner (might have been Brazilian) of cheating; saying his opponent's type of blades gave him an unfair advantage or something. He was dogged by the press and then apologized.

You might be right; I could see him killing himself, but I don't think it's likely while he's on bail. I think he has a lot of enablers who will help him avoid taking responsibility and encourage his belief that he'll be able to make this go away.

yep that was the guy Oliviere something...

Unless they sleep with him, it only takes under ten minutes to hang yourself, or you can cut your wrists in the bath and bleed out real quick if the bath is hot/speeds heartbeat/ unless they spend every hour with him till trial i don't see how they can stop him killing himself.
plus he strikes me as a coward who wont take responsibility for his actions.

[Eat Shit And Die]

I think with or without his 'enabelers' he has confesed to killing her, and his mental health is in decline, the guy is a crawling timebomb.

[HairOfTheDog]

I wouldn't bet against you. He strikes me as a coward too, but he also strikes me as an entitled narcissist. If he's both, I don't know which one is stronger, the cowardice or the narcissism. It's gonna be interesting watching how this plays out.

I wish Botha had taken the time to delve into the phone calls from the morning of the killing before he testified at the bail hearing. The way I understand it now, the complex guard called Pistorius after the shots and Pistorius only told him, "I'm okay, I'm okay", without mentioning Reeva. Then, Pistorius called NetCare. I don't know if he called his friend and his dad before or after NetCare. But, if true, I think the conversation with the guard and the fact that he didn't call NetCare before someone called him about the shooting looks very bad and could have made a difference regarding bail. Instead, Botha blew it by claiming Pisotrius never called for help without checking his facts thoroughly. Like reading only the first part of the label on the supplement bottle "Test...." and then testifying in court that it was testosterone, again without checking his facts. Not that it make as difference now, it's just so unbelievably sloppy and stupid. Regrettable.

[Eat Shit And Die]

He will kill again on bail. Himself or someone else.

sportsmans bet.

plus one to your response though.

[HairOfTheDog]

Okay, I'll take the bet.

I think it's highly likely that Pistorius will make it to trial without having killed anyone.

This is really morbid, but here are my baseless odds to support our bet; between now and trial.
-No suicide or homicide attempts by Pistorius: 70%
-Suicide attempt by Pistorius, but "unsuccessful" (he fails or he's trying to garner pity): 15%
-Suicide by Pistorius, he dies by his own hand: 8%
-Pistorius assaults or kills someone else: 5%
-Pistorius gets killed by someone else: 2%

These odds might change for me as more details are revealed between now and trial (but I'm locked into our bet and will honor it - Pistorius will make it to trial without having killed anyone).

For example, I think that if the "herbal remedy/supplement" testoconpasutiun coenzyme and the syringes finish being tested by LE lab and there is evidence of performance enhancing drugs involved, the chances of him taking his own life would increase substantially; being stripped of his racing achievements would be huge on top of a murder charge. I can't find any information about that remedy anywhere and a sports scientist is quoted in link below as saying he's never heard of it before the Pistorius bail hearing (and that usually supplements are taken orally, not by syringe). Curious.

http://za.news.yahoo.com/pistorius-syrin...49396.html

[NightOwl]

Thanks for all the updates HairOfTheDog, and I've enjoyed your opinion and ESADs very much.

Pistorius is out free as a bird! Not only is he a coward & narcissist he's an angry young man. If he received death threats who were they from? With the money he had he could have hired a personal body guard and killing Reeva may not have happened.

He signed up to purchase 6 guns was it? Here they are In details obtained from the South African Police Service's National Firearms Center and given over the telephone, Pistorius applied for licenses for a Smith & Wesson model 500 revolver, a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver, a Vector .223-caliber rifle and three shotguns: A Mossberg shotgun, shotgun, a Maverick shotgun and a Winchester shotgun. The six outstanding applications listed those guns for Pistorius' private collection.
The six recent firearm license applications were sent back to a police and firearms station in Johannesburg to be reapplied for on Monday, four days after Steenkamp's killing, the officials said. No reasons were given why the applications were sent back to be refiled.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22628854/

ESAD said he's a crawling timebomb, he sure is, Pistorius didn't like being subjected to all of this during the last 4 days, having to endure living in a cell and endure what the prosecutor was saying about him, in his mind he's never going back. He is not going to like a probation officer and correctional officer lots and lots of rules he must obey. He could blow his stack between now and June.

I cannot figure out why Botha couldn't give us the phone calls or who sent Reeva messages, what gives? or have they been withheld from Botha? I don't trust them period. I even wonder if Botha was had possibly, The phone call or Ipad message may have held a clue and Pist got extremely jealous but, I'm thinking he already was jealous of Reeva she was reaching for the stars IMO, a narcissist doesn't like anyone topping them off.

HairOfTheDog fabulous reporting! it's really fishy that no one knows what the vials are and why the syringes.

HairOfTheDog statement Post #78 For example, I think that if the "herbal remedy/supplement" testoconpasutiun coenzyme and the syringes finish being tested by LE lab and there is evidence of performance enhancing drugs involved, the chances of him taking his own life would increase substantially; being stripped of his racing achievements would be huge on top of a murder charge. I can't find any information about that remedy anywhere and a sports scientist is quoted in link below as saying he's never heard of it before the Pistorius bail hearing (and that usually supplements are taken orally, not by syringe). Curious.
_____________________________________________________________

It still could be "roid rage" played a role in Reeva's death I read some where the International Olympic Committee didn't test. The vials above are very mysterious. AASD the Association Against Steroid Abuse it's nothing but, bad news about steriods, terrible side effect! all this drug use and steriod use makes me sick. Well we haven't heard the end of this story.

[Eat Shit And Die]

Good post NO.