MURDERED: 8 yr old Leila Fowler - 12 yr old brother charged

[lady love]

Can you cite any examples demonstrating this families abnormalcy? Other then things you have heard from people who claim they read this and that?

I have read comments from kids that went to school with him that say he was always nice and always smiling.

It's odd one moment you condemn citations gleaned from "reading" and then, you, offer an example from something you read.

Bottom line: You couldn't cite ANY example of normalcy. That's sad . . . I could think of at least five.

I'll be courteous and give you an example of what I consider outside of the "norm".

Coming home and finding a child murdered and the other, who was responsible for her care, unscathed.

Here's a few more:

1.) Fathering additional children while being unable to provide for previously sired offspring.

2.) Step Mom not knowing the age of a child or identifying them by name. . . especially when she wants to be identified as "Mother".

3.) Not immediately rushing home after learning that an alleged intruder caused so much terror, that a 12 year old has locked himself in a bathroom and the daughter's whereabouts and condition is unknown.

4.) Sponging off a woman who isn't your spouse.

I apologize if the preceding occur with regularity in your neighborhood.

It ain't the norm in my little slice of heaven.

I have never questioned if the boy was guilty or not. I have stated that it is unfair to attack the whole family. What you cite are nothing more then your opinion. How do you know any of this. Do you know them personally, Have they told you this themselves? Probably not so therefore this is just what you think.

1.) Fathering additional children while being unable to provide for previously sired offspring. How do you know he was unable to provide for them? Did they always have a house to live in and food to eat and clothing to wear? Were they all healthy? How many kids he has sired and with who is completely irrelevant. Maybe if the dead beat mothers would of been paying child support he would of been able to provide for them better.

2.) Step Mom not knowing the age of a child or identifying them by name. . . especially when she wants to be identified as "Mother". she said Leila was 9. so what. I know a lot of people who when someones birthday is getting close that they say they the upcoming age. her birthday was in 2 months. would you like it if she had said 8 years and 10 months? We don't know that she didn't identify them by name. I am pretty sure the edited out a part as the dispatcher asked for the home phone number. She could of gave the names then.

3.) Not immediately rushing home after learning that an alleged intruder caused so much terror, that a 12 year old has locked himself in a bathroom and the daughter's whereabouts and condition is unknown. How do you know they were not rushing home. Did you see them still sitting at the little league game while this was supposed to be going on? In the call you can hear her says she is trying to get there. she never said the 12 year old boy was in locked in the bathroom. she said he was in the bathroom when her daughter started screaming and when he came out he saw a man running. They may have not known that the girl had been hurt because the son probably didn't tell them. She may have assumed the girl was still freaking out no knowing she was hurt.

4.) Sponging off a woman who isn't your spouse. How about all the women who sponge off men who are not their spouses? A lot of unmarried people leave together.

So what color is the sky in your little slice of heaven? What you cite means nothing.

[LytoMe]

I can say that this statement was coming from legal documents that have been found. In COURT the father states this, these documents are open for the public to see and look up. If you want to check them out just do a legal search of the name. In one of the custody/child support hearings the father states this. Can not tell you which one at the moment.

Also I have read a lot about the Bio Mother, I do not believe anyone here has said she was a good mother or anything but a crappy mother.

LADY LOVE - I do wish you would see that NOT ONE person here is stating their life is heaven or perfect. They are stating their opinions regarding the information they are finding. MOST of the people on here are people that have resources to find legal documents, or speak to legal representatives. This is their home to vent.

In saying all of the above, instead of questioning others here. Questions should really be about what happened that day, or what was wrong with this boy that day.

[lady love]

I can say that this statement was coming from legal documents that have been found. In COURT the father states this, these documents are open for the public to see and look up. If you want to check them out just do a legal search of the name. In one of the custody/child support hearings the father states this. Can not tell you which one at the moment.

Also I have read a lot about the Bio Mother, I do not believe anyone here has said she was a good mother or anything but a crappy mother.

LADY LOVE - I do wish you would see that NOT ONE person here is stating their life is heaven or perfect. They are stating their opinions regarding the information they are finding. MOST of the people on here are people that have resources to find legal documents, or speak to legal representatives. This is their home to vent.

In saying all of the above, instead of questioning others here. Questions should really be about what happened that day, or what was wrong with this boy that day.

Well I think maybe the should let the little shit son out of jail and go home. Then maybe he can knife the whole damn family. Let him slit old barneys throat for not providing for his family and not being able to keep it in his pants and neglecting his loser kids. Its Barneys fault the kid is dead. If he wouldn't of had to go watch one of his other kids play little league and paid attention to the 12 year old he wouldn't of shanked the little girl. he should of treated the 12 year old like he was better then the rest of the kids.

As for the step mom/fiancé maybe the kid should slit her because she is a damn loser for considering the kids as her kids. I mean really, who the hell does something like that.

He might as well do away with the rest of the kids to then he will be able to have a happy life not having to deal with all those siblings from different mothers. What about that dumb oldest brother. I mean really what kind of 19 year old gets his little sisters name tattooed on his arm. He has some serious issues. At least then the world would not have to put up with a dysfunctional family ruining things.

God that felt good.

[Duchess]

God that felt good.

[HairOfTheDog]

God that felt good.

Sarcasm and mockery are also no problem here, lady love.

Isaiah Fowler will be back in court on May 29^th.

I was surprised that his arraignment wasn't a closed proceeding; don't know if future hearings will be closed or not.

Anxious to hear how he pleads to the charges.

[sally]

I'm assuming the older brother got his sister's name tattooed on his arm after she died. If it was prior to her death then that's rather odd.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm assuming the older brother got his sister's name tattooed on his arm after she died. If it was prior to her death then that's rather odd.

The vigil was held so quickly after the killing that it was very curious to see that tattoo on Justin's arm.

I think that it was simply penned on his arm to look like a tat, if this article from ABC just after the arrest a couple of weeks later is accurate.

MAY 13 - VALLEY SPRINGS, Calif. -- The adult brother of a 12-year-old California boy accused of killing his 8-year-old sister says the family is "in a fog" over the boy's arrest.

On Monday, 19-year-old Justin Fowler told The Associated Press that his father and the rest of the family are shocked and saddened by the latest twist in a case that rocked the Central California foothill community of Valley Springs.

Last month's stabbing death of Leila Fowler southeast of Sacramento set off an intense manhunt. Her 12-year-old brother was in the home at the time and told police he saw a man run from the scene.

He was arrested over the weekend.

The boy appeared at a vigil for his sister, along with Justin, who was photographed with the name "Leila" written on his forearm.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/13/5416987...rylink=cpy

[username]

God that felt good.

I second that!

[lady love]

Anxious to hear how he pleads to the charges.
[/quote]

His defense lawyers will probably enter a plea of not guilty by insanity or some stupid shit like that and considering how stupid the judicial system is they will probably believe it without even considering that the boy was clever enough to keep the police searching 2 week for a man that did not exist.

The kid will probably get a slap on the wrist and a couple years in a juvenile psyche ward.

I wonder how the police of calvarias county feel knowing that they were dooped by a 12 year old.

[HairOfTheDog]

His defense lawyers will probably enter a plea of not guilty by insanity or some stupid shit like that and considering how stupid the judicial system is they will probably believe it without even considering that the boy was clever enough to keep the police searching 2 week for a man that did not exist.

The kid will probably get a slap on the wrist and a couple years in a juvenile psyche ward.

I wonder how the police of calvarias county feel knowing that they were dooped by a 12 year old.

I'm not sure that the local LE were duped, maybe. Or, it's possible that they were very suspicious and focused all along, but simply had to collect/test evidence to support an arrest warrant in the absence of a confession. Covering alternate bases before the arrest also makes it harder for the defense to claim that other reasonable leads/avenues weren't pursued if the suspect pleads not guilty and the defense goes with a SODDI strategy.

I also don't know if Isaiah duped his very own family or if they suspected all along and held back info, or were in denial.

Lots of unknowns.

In my opinion, Isaiah Fowler will not be released from a penal or psychiatric facility before he's 23 years old, given the severity of his crime. Assuming, of course, that Isaiah either pleads guilty or is found guilty by a judge. ETA: This is my opinion whether an insanity defense is used or not, so long as Isaiah is confessed/deemed to be the killer legally.

I think you may be right about how he pleads, lady love. If the state has a strong case against him, I can easily see the defense attorneys pleading "insanity" or "mental defect", as you predict (if they believe they can secure a diagnosis to support it). They might do that whether they believe it or not, they'll be conferring with the boy's family, no doubt.

Will they claim that he did it in the heat of passion; he just "snapped"? IDK, maybe that too.

Will be interesting to see what unfolds on the 29^th...

[LytoMe]

Anxious to hear how he pleads to the charges.

His defense lawyers will probably enter a plea of not guilty by insanity or some stupid shit like that and considering how stupid the judicial system is they will probably believe it without even considering that the boy was clever enough to keep the police searching 2 week for a man that did not exist.

The kid will probably get a slap on the wrist and a couple years in a juvenile psyche ward.

I wonder how the police of calvarias county feel knowing that they were dooped by a 12 year old.
[/quote]

For a plea of insanity the State of California has to declare him insane. Unless he REALLY has something wrong with him, and he isnt just EVIL. This will not hold up in court.

As for this kid being so smart to keeping the cops off him, I doubt that was true. I believe they knew it was him the entire time. JUST like everyone on this forum from the beginning. His story did not make sense.

In my opinion, the lawyers might try to fight it. I think the father is already setting up the defense by saying they have NO PROOF.

[koko]

I was talking to a couple people about this case and one mentioned that upon hearing the 12 y/o brother had been arrested, automatically had the underlying feeling that something sexual had been going on. Not long term but at that moment. And possibly Leila tried to get away and he got mad.

I don't know why exactly but I just don't get that feeling about this case. I don't know, maybe I'm just naive...do any of you guys suspect some type of sexual motive?

Also, sorry if this already came up but my phone is being a real cunt...so slow

[HairOfTheDog]

^ A couple of others here have speculated that Isaiah may have molested or attempted to molest Leila and he stabbed her when she threatened to tell (or fought back), koko. I think it's reasonable speculation towards a possible motive.

But, LE claims that they have DNA results which contributed to the arrest warrant being issued.

There are no charges of a sexual nature pending against the 12 year old at this time. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen or wasn't attempted, just that no evidence or charges to substantiate that speculation has been released, to date.

[koko]

Thanks HOTD,

Yeah even in the hour & a half since my last post, it's kind of dawned on me that it is not as wild of an idea as I first thought. At least as far as public speculations go.

[lady love]

I was talking to a couple people about this case and one mentioned that upon hearing the 12 y/o brother had been arrested, automatically had the underlying feeling that something sexual had been going on. Not long term but at that moment. And possibly Leila tried to get away and he got mad.

I don't know why exactly but I just don't get that feeling about this case. I don't know, maybe I'm just naive...do any of you guys suspect some type of sexual motive?

Also, sorry if this already came up but my phone is being a real cunt...so slow

I had thought the same thing about him trying to sexually assault her to when I first started hearing about this. Especially when I read about people saying that he was always close to the 8 year old and always looked out for her. Most 12 year old boys I knew or know of find their little sisters annoying and don't want them around. I found that kind of odd.

My speculation is that there may have been some touchy feely stuff going on for a while and sense they were home alone that day he may have wanted to move to the next level and she refused him and threatened to tell her dad and the boy got mad at killed her to shut her up.

I had read something somewhere else about someone talking about another similar case in another state several years ago about a 13 year old boy who wanted his 11 year old sister to do something to him and when she refused and said she was going to tell her mother the boy strangled her and then stripped her and molested her after she was dead and then went to school. When the mother returned home from work she found her daughter on the bed dead and the boy claimed she was alive when he left for school and that there was a strange looking man outside when he left and the police started looking for the strange looking man.

That boy however was not as clever as Isaiah and he forgot to at least clean his sperm off his dead sister and the police tested and found it to be the boy. That boy was charged as an adult. I heard the mother wanted the boy to have to go to the funeral but the courts refused because the boy showed absolutely no remorse or emotion when it came to his sister or what he had done to her.

What the hell is the matter with the world when brothers and sisters try to be sexual with each other. I thought that's what that secret place behind the school building with girls or boys in your class was for lol.

I hope little Leila Fowler at least went out with a fight not matter how much she was overpowered.

[HairOfTheDog]

In my opinion, the lawyers might try to fight it. I think the father is already setting up the defense by saying they have NO PROOF.

It's been really quiet in this case building up to next week's hearing.

I don't know if Barney Fowler or Isaiah's attorneys had seen the state's evidence when they made the "no proof" comments.

If they've seen it now and sincerely feel it doesn't point to Isaiah, a straight "not guilty" plea is probably in the cards, as you suspect.

P.s. Wish we could get a peek at the arrest warrant.

[HairOfTheDog]

What the hell is the matter with the world when brothers and sisters try to be sexual with each other.

Child on child crime, especially rape or murder, always seems incomprehensible to me.

There aren't tons of cases like this one and the one you highlighted about the 13 and 11 year old siblings, but still too many and usually very few answers as to "why".

I bet Leila did fight, lady love. Unless she was restrained, she would have been trying to avoid the knife.

I'm afraid that she didn't die quickly either. A couple of media reports noted that she was stabbed 21 times; haven't seen that confirmed by LE/ME though. Also, still don't know if she was deceased for some period by the time she was officially pronounced dead at the hospital, or if she actually was alive when she first arrived there (she was pronounced only a few minutes after arrival).

[Adub]

This is from the website of the investigators hired by the attorneys



Visiting the Leila Fowler Crime Scene

In the company of Mark Reichel, the Defense Attorney for Isaiah Fowler, I spent Saturday in and around the crime scene of the Leila Fowler stabbing. The community is not as isolated as one might think and the neighbors were glad the initial law enforcement and media frenzy has passed. There were a few obvious instances of people driving past the house out of curiosity.

Inside the Fowler’s former residence it is quiet, but not gory. The various law enforcement agencies ripped out furniture, carpets, plaster board from the walls and even the fireplace in the living room. Any place where evidence might be hidden was opened up and left open. The room where the killing took place is void of any personality because nothing but chemically treated blood stains remain on the wall. Only when you begin to mentally recreate what happened in that room does a chill consume you.

However this case plays out, that feeling will never leave me.
http://johnkennedyinvestigations.wordpre...ime-scene/

[HairOfTheDog]

^ Thanks for that Adub.

Looks like Isaiah is going to plead "not guilty" tomorrow. The defense's investigator is probably working overtime looking for possible alternate scenarios.

From the Union Democrat today:

A 12-year-old Valley Springs boy charged in the stabbing death of his younger sister will plead not guilty Wednesday, defense attorney Mark Reichel said.

He appeared in court for arraignment May 15 but the hearing was continued to give Reichel and his law partner, Steve Plesser, time to review the evidence.

Reichel said Friday afternoon that they had not yet reviewed all of the evidence.

A detention hearing will also be held Wednesday, at which the court will determine whether the boy must remain in custody. He is held at a juvenile detention facility in El Dorado County and is not able to post bail before the hearing, Reichel said.

The court will also set a date for the boy to return for a jurisdictional hearing setting.

At the jurisdictional hearing, a judge will determine if the boy is guilty of the charges.

Calaveras County Sheriff’s Office detectives arrested Leila’s brother May 11 at the sheriff’s Valley Springs substation, following a two-week investigation. The 12-year-old was booked on a charge of murder.

Wednesday’s hearing is scheduled for 1:15 p.m. (PST).

Ref:
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-...-innocence

[username]

I have no "mental picture" of what happened in that room yet. I don't know if it was sexual, rage related or what. Waiting for the evidence.