Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[ZEROSPHERES]

[quote='curious' pid='135603' dateline='1298652634']

What I don't get is posing in deliberately mean, arrogant, threatening poses, flashing signs with your fingers; and in many cases posing with a gun, or in a group picture with someone else holding a gun.

They may not consider it any different than the 60s generation flashing the peace sign. Simply a common bonding in a culture where you are presenting your identity. In Nazi Germany you were either "IN" or "OUT" and out was more dangerous than being in. If can we learn anything from history; as a culture we need to confront a sweeping moral decay in the US and do it soon while there are still more of us than them; or one day we may have a gangsta president, legally elected who suspends the constitution in "Hitleresque" repeat of history. IMHO

[Duchess]

just a note to those to whom it applies:

A. get an avatar.

B. learn to use quote function correctly.

i am wasting too much time sending/repeating PMs about it.

i'm going to start making people newbies again w/o notice or warning.

help is here:

http://mockforums.net/thread-4825.html

I'd just like to reiterate what LC has so graciously asked for. She's been very kind & patient with everyone, I don't have a kind or gracious bone in my body and I don't have any problem with telling all of you that it applies to, load a motherfucking avatar, do it before you make one more post or I will deny you access to this thread. Got it?

[Butterfly Girl]

I would encourage the MEN of the group to start taking
care of their women who are bearing their children and
demand that the girls TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

yes, otherwise it could be generation after generation of feral children growing up to be psychopathic adults raising feral children. jmo
[/quote]

How about using some form of birth control?

[pspence]

Geeze, if anyone on this forum works for the Toledo Convention & Visitors Bureau I would highly recommend a new image/marketing plans be in the works :O

Good one!

[shitstorm]

have you read "The sociopath next door" by Martha Stout.
highly acclaimed and very informative and scary!!!!

I did read that. Didn't like the subtle political agenda, but the info on sociopaths was good.
[/quote]

Dying to read the book and will get it today...I'm curious...what could be the subtle political agenda on a book about sociopaths? I would think fear of sociopaths in our society would be bi-partisan...what is it anti-or pro death penalty or something like that?




[/quote]

I don't recall any mention of the death penalty. Throughout the book she has this theme going that individuality v. collectivism is responsible for allowing sociopaths to thrive. That is complete and total horseshit. She's trying to promote her political agenda, which is socialist, on the back of the of the topic about sociopathy. I found it sickening. I could write a book and refute everything she said and show where bureaucratic institutionalism nurtures and protects the sociopathic personality, which would be just as disingenuous. Her main heroin and victim in her book is a Jewish psychiatrist, which was also funny. If people knew the history of psychiatry they would see the ethnic agenda in her story and the absurdity of what it is she's trying to do in her book.

Suffice it to say, individual responsibility and the principals in our Constitution are not the cause of sociopathy.

I'm sure there are far better books to found on the subject.

[Jane]

If Tiff was a teacher, she'd be Mary Kay Letourneau

lmao!! where did that come from, hahahaaa! I've got paaaaages, & paaaages to catch up on, too!

[Jane]

Thanks, Zero.

I always liked superheroes, so a flying penguin is always a welcome sight.

Especially with a bright red cape flowing.

yes! Welcome back!

[Jane]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

I guess that would depend on your definition of "shithole." If there is a nice part of toledo, I'd love to find it.

Ummm, quite a few. Crossgates area, Heatherdowns area, Beverly area, Harvard Area.

Don't be knockin' my city. I am not a thug but I am a 3^rd generation south ender and I take pride in where I am from. Not gang pride but we can't all be suburban snobs. Thats what they call "white flight". People get scared and leave and don't put anything back in.

"white flight" ... that's interesting! I wont be knockin' your city. I don't know anything about Toledo, OH... never been there

[EastCoastKat]

Geeze, if anyone on this forum works for the Toledo Convention & Visitors Bureau I would highly recommend a new image/marketing plans be in the works :O

I can see it now...Toldeo: Living in a Gangtas Paradise

Sorry, couldn't resist

Ok I want to clear up what everybody sees on the facebook pages. Its called hip hop style. Its a style. Flat billed hat big sweatpants and such. Doesn't mean your a gangster or a criminal. Its a style. Most city kids dress like that. Though some of the people on the pages might very well be criminals I'm sure that all of them aren't. My husband dresses and talks like that. He's not a gangster or a criminal. He's just a guy who grew up in a mixed culture. He's not a poser either. This is urban not suburb crap.

Agreed. For some it is urban style and even some suburbans dress like this and talk like this....and then there is that element of criminal. It's like I said before, in
the 1960's we had hippies, and for some it was a lifestyle and for others it was just a style, and for the ciminals it was an easy way for a wolf to wear sheeps clothing and mingle among the sheep without them even knowing until it was too late, ie Charlie Manson.

Let me be more clear...going by what's been posted in THIS forum, pages 1- 999,000 you couldn't pay me enough money to live there...hence the reference to a new image/marketing campaign.

Look, hopefully we're all adults and we can somehow find a way to incert some comic relief in this horrible tragedy, albeit sinister at that.

Agree that this generation's style and verbal symantics are vastly different from say, the 60's, but trying to compare cultural movements with thugs who bring violence and street crime to communities has hardly any relevence on their attire or use of slang, so to to speak.

"Agree that this generation's style and verbal symantics are vastly different from say, the 60's, but trying to compare cultural movements with thugs who bring violence and street crime to communities has hardly any relevence on their attire or use of slang, so to to speak"
.
I'm not sure what you mean here, maybe you can clarify it for me??

[Jane]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

I agree Toledo is not a shithole but it is cheap to live there and not a lot of jobs so therefore there are a lot of people like this. I am originally from lima, hour south of toledo
And my bf from toledo and we left both because there is not a lot of jobs. I've always said toledo is a bigger lima...low income and drug infested in some areas. I now live in a columbus suburb...single mother college graduate that works 2 full time jobs to make sure my 16 year old son see a better way than being a dope dealer making fast money.... but even in the suburbs u see the drugs. Its different though...pills and weed is what they are into. Pill addiction is big and these kids have the money to spend. That is why lisa gets mixed up with TW because they have that in common and the only thing that separates them in the neighborhoods they grew up in. I believe lisa was on this path prior to ever meeting JC so u can't blame him for her addiction...my opinion only.

I totally agree with you except, I don't think Toledo is a big Lima. I think Toledo is a smaller Detroit. JMO. Other than that, you are dead on. Lisa was headed down the wrong one way street before she met Johnny.

I think she was too ... Really sad. I wouldn't want to die with a plastic bag over my head

[shitstorm]

My husband told me that a lot of gang members that do military, come back into the neighborhoods and teach the other gang members techniques they learned in the war zones, something I was unaware of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqShQTSDCM

[ZEROSPHERES]

pspence

Please get an AV. I don't want you blocked from this thread

zero

[Jane]

I remember a professor once saying that we need to legalize drugs because we'll never win that war...put the $$ instead into education and treatment...it was not the "drugs" that made people violent/crime/murder but the "business of drugs" that was responsible for the violence/crime/murders...I remember being shocked at first at thinking legalizing all drugs ...but then think of all of the addicts in jail that maybe wouldn't have been exposed to this gangsta life...get the non-violent ones out of jail ...who cares if they sit home all day and get wasted as long as they don't hurt any innocent people...open up room in the jails for the pedophiles and murderers that now they have to let out early because of no room...just food for thought...

Some cute kids way way over their heads...like someone said...in a world / culture Lisa probably had no idea what those around her were capable of....

I'm all for legalizing marijuana ...

[lou1975]

I remember a professor once saying that we need to legalize drugs because we'll never win that war...put the $$ instead into education and treatment...it was not the "drugs" that made people violent/crime/murder but the "business of drugs" that was responsible for the violence/crime/murders...I remember being shocked at first at thinking legalizing all drugs ...but then think of all of the addicts in jail that maybe wouldn't have been exposed to this gangsta life...get the non-violent ones out of jail ...who cares if they sit home all day and get wasted as long as they don't hurt any innocent people...open up room in the jails for the pedophiles and murderers that now they have to let out early because of no room...just food for thought...

Some cute kids way way over their heads...like someone said...in a world / culture Lisa probably had no idea what those around her were capable of....

I'm all for legalizing marijuana ...

I agree. I am a medicinal marijuana user. So I am self medicating and chancing an arrest. So less pain = possible conviction

[Freshbait78]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

I guess that would depend on your definition of "shithole." If there is a nice part of toledo, I'd love to find it.

Ummm, quite a few. Crossgates area, Heatherdowns area, Beverly area, Harvard Area.

Don't be knockin' my city. I am not a thug but I am a 3^rd generation south ender and I take pride in where I am from. Not gang pride but we can't all be suburban snobs. Thats what they call "white flight". People get scared and leave and don't put anything back in.

Well I'm a 3^rd generation south ender too & I will knock the city LOL I grew up in the Western/Broadway/South area & hightaled my ass right outta there as soon as I could. Had the opportunity to move back over there a couple of years ago when my dad passed & I was given the option to take over his house. I didn't & within months it was stripped. They even took the bathtub!

You say Heatherdowns is a good area? False! That's where I moved & have lived in this area for 10+ years now. I lived at Hidden Cedars Condos & it got so infested with drugs & gang bangers there that I decided to move. The morning of my move I woke up to a 6'0 tall 300+lb mexican dude standing in my bedroom doorway at 6am. :O

Moved that same day but stayed in the general area. Heatherdowns/Reynolds/Glendale. It's NOT a good area. You must have missed the riot with gun fire that happened at Southwycke Lanes a couple months ago? & that same night the 17 year old kid that was shot in the back just a couple of blocks down from there? & the shots fired at the teen dance club less than a mile from there in Maumee? What about the motel that was torn down on the corner of Heatherdowns/Reynolds a few years ago because it was infested with drug dealers & prostitutes? It's gotten to the point where I can't walk to the store in the daylight in the summer without being solicited for money or being approached by a creepy old man who wants to "give me a ride"

To sum it up... Toledo is a shit hole IMHO

[Jane]

Quick recap.

Tiffany stated that she was going to play pool with a friend at the Straubs and that her boyfriend couldn't make it, as he was at home doing a paper for school.

She stated that the police have looked at/examined her phone records (verifying that her record of conversations was correct) but did not need to confiscate her phone to do so.

She indicated that the police have interviewed at least three people. Herself, her boyfriend and an unnamed party, known as the minor.

She stated that she did not feel robbery was the primary motive and that this crime was of a more personal nature. She indicated that she had an idea that no one else was expected at the Straub home that evening. And, she feels a person who was involved in a robbery with JC years back could be a prime suspect.

She said that JC said he was planning to call her back after responding to someone saying essentially what are you doing here, who are you. She stated this is why she did not contact police immediately.

She indicated that she could not hear Lisa or the mystery man who was in the home at the time in question.

She stated that she did not see inside the home, or claim it was ransacked, at any time.

Please add to the recap as you see fit. Just trying to consolidate info.

Tiffany/Mock members, feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Thanks again for joining us Tiffany. We look forward to learning more.

worth going over again...

I don't know where the above original quote is on this thread. It is from "netsleuth" and he/she is no longer posting on this forum. I think there should be a correction. Above it states that she did not see inside the home but, I believe she stated on this forum that she looked in the side windows of the front door and saw a closet open at the top of the stairs. I think she said that Maytee may have embellished that comment and turned it into "ransacked".

right! You are correct! (in bold above)

[LoserCity]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

I guess that would depend on your definition of "shithole." If there is a nice part of toledo, I'd love to find it.

Ummm, quite a few. Crossgates area, Heatherdowns area, Beverly area, Harvard Area.

Don't be knockin' my city. I am not a thug but I am a 3^rd generation south ender and I take pride in where I am from. Not gang pride but we can't all be suburban snobs. Thats what they call "white flight". People get scared and leave and don't put anything back in.

Well this "white" family decided to "flight" when our business - located ON Western - was broken into weekly, the kids couldn't go outside and ride their bikes on the sidewalks withoutthem being stolen, and a family friend was murdered while working at KFC. If that makes me scared - F yes I'm scared. I will walk alone at night in the Heights for a year before I would do it once in the South End.
PS - I get what you're saying about pride in your area, but you are the exception, not the rule. In fact, I wish there were more like you to clean up the neighborhood. My parents and aunts/uncles went to Harvard and Bowsher and 3 of them ended up alcoholic drug addicts dying from heroin overdose. It's everywhere.

[Jane]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

I guess that would depend on your definition of "shithole." If there is a nice part of toledo, I'd love to find it.

Ummm, quite a few. Crossgates area, Heatherdowns area, Beverly area, Harvard Area.

Don't be knockin' my city. I am not a thug but I am a 3^rd generation south ender and I take pride in where I am from. Not gang pride but we can't all be suburban snobs. Thats what they call "white flight". People get scared and leave and don't put anything back in.

Well I'm a 3^rd generation south ender too & I will knock the city LOL I grew up in the Western/Broadway/South area & hightaled my ass right outta there as soon as I could. Had the opportunity to move back over there a couple of years ago when my dad passed & I was given the option to take over his house. I didn't & within months it was stripped. They even took the bathtub!

You say Heatherdowns is a good area? False! That's where I moved & have lived in this area for 10+ years now. I lived at Hidden Cedars Condos & it got so infested with drugs & gang bangers there that I decided to move. The morning of my move I woke up to a 6'0 tall 300+lb mexican dude standing in my bedroom doorway at 6am. :O

Moved that same day but stayed in the general area. Heatherdowns/Reynolds/Glendale. It's NOT a good area. You must have missed the riot with gun fire that happened at Southwycke Lanes a couple months ago? & that same night the 17 year old kid that was shot in the back just a couple of blocks down from there? & the shots fired at the teen dance club less than a mile from there in Maumee? What about the motel that was torn down on the corner of Heatherdowns/Reynolds a few years ago because it was infested with drug dealers & prostitutes? It's gotten to the point where I can't walk to the store in the daylight in the summer without being solicited for money or being approached by a creepy old man who wants to "give me a ride"

To sum it up... Toledo is a shit hole IMHO

wow!

[shitstorm]

Just a little something. I don't know if it sheds any light on the crime. About ten years ago a group of friends that had just graduated a couple of years before from Bowsher High School (same high school as a lot of these characters) murdered their friend for drugs. Shot him in the back of the head while they were riding in his car and broke all his bones and shoved him in a drain pipe. It took about a year for LE to get the whole case together but they did get a conviction. This was a robbery for drug money. Although, the method of murder is not the same it was still very brutal. I don't remember all the reports but I believe they also poured gasoline or acid on him. However, contrary to what several people want to harp on. Toledo is not a shithole filled in drug dealing criminals. We have problems like any other big city. (we are not a tiny honkey tonk town) But Toledo is not a shithole.

Anywhere you live you will have your bad areas. My man and I discussed this when we moved back to London (UK) We live in a nice little estate, but if you cross over the road next to us, then it is a completely different world to us. We have gangs ie, busy block (lol) Red Road (lol) We hear gun shots too often. My neighbours son is part of one of them and is always telling me "yes bruv/blud (ahem I am a girl and certainly not gang material) best be tekkin a go on dat youtoob and chek aaat ma new track innit" I say erm pardon I didnt quite get that can you say it again. I say that a few times until I understand. I prefer Cockney speach.

How weird seeing Brit speak ("innit") mixed with gang speak, lol. Innit has alway been my favorite Brit word.

Just look how far America prison culture has spread. It didn't do that by American ex-cons becoming ex-pats, either. It was spread through music and film by people who live in gated communities and have private jets.

[Jane]

I was meandering on FB, looking at the players' in this case friends of friends of friends of friends... and ran across this pic of Lisa. The pic was added to FB on Sept 28, 2010 but who knows when it was actually taken.

wow, that picture's kind of creepy, with Tiffany standing there, smiling right behind Lisa....