(02-18-2011, 08:18 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: we, the public, are starved for some news on this case. i am pro-LE all the way strangely enough, heh, and i do understand the news blackout from authorities. but i think they REALLY REALLY NEED TO SAY SOMETHING. this is not their garden-variety drug thug case, it has clearly captured the attention and imagination of people everywhere. the Dept. probably is very conscious of that. and we also need to bear in mind, the less public info given out, the less likely some sleazy defense attny. will be able to declare massive pre-trial publicity has been prejudicial against the poor client(s) who were badly potty trained and not responsible for being depraved, then whine for a change of venue. they could also sit in jail awaiting trial for years. and i want to see this trial!
and consider this prospect...what if there is never an arrest? (not likely, but anything is possible). you don't take a capital murder case to trial w/o all the evidence you need to win at trial. even then you could get o.j.'s jury.

Excellent post! Hope all the mockers read it!
What a hellish crime and o.j.

Thanks!

(02-18-2011, 03:00 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

do u think that her uncle is gonna announce on national tv that she was half dressed. he says that she was still in her uniform. you can't assume that to mean her entire uniform. the point he was trying to make was that she wasnt home very long because she always changes out of her uniform right away. She didn't get that far.

tells me it happened as soon as they got home. thats it. not that they died right away. sure they werent going to wait for her to change clothes before they took her life.

(02-18-2011, 03:03 AM)NightOwl Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 10:20 PM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 09:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Is anyone besides me squeaked by the photos of M and J here?
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?tab=3#!...57&theater

Not really but look at this

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=52...57&theater

Does that tattoo say Maytee?

YES IT DOES/. i said that along time ago. guess no one reads my posts.

How observant! Good Post! Maytee means "loveable" in Basque language. Cuban mothers are very loving with their sons!

welcome, Snoopy! - from your post

Quote:It is my opinion, that the phone call from the "friend" was intended to lure the victims from the home, so that it could be robbed, and that the victims crossed paths with the person (s), who were there to rob the home.

My guess is that, if they were leaving the home- and taking LS's car, which was parked in the garage, the perp(s) were probably in the garage, intending to enter the home through the interior door.

are you thinking the "friend" didn't make the phone call, soon enough, to lure them out? I'm confused a little. If Lisa had her uniform still on, then it would appear she'd just gotten home from work. When do you think the call to lure them out, was suppose to happen?

Maybe the key that was found made them think there was a safe in the house
but its from a bank i bet

Can anyone decipher the tattoo on left arm?

Maytee would be proud of his looks for sure!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Johnny...57&theater

(02-18-2011, 08:08 PM)Snoopy Wrote: You think much like I do LC! From the beginning I have strongly felt this was an intended robbery- and yes, the LE have not implied that it was "random!"
It is my opinion, that the phone call from the "friend" was intended to lure the victims from the home, so that it could be robbed, and that the victims crossed paths with the person (s), who were there to rob the home.

My guess is that, if they were leaving the home- and taking LS's car, which was parked in the garage, the perp(s) were probably in the garage, intending to enter the home through the interior door.

In my opinion, the victims were familiar with their attackers, and this is why they were killed.
The comments that the victim allegedly made, while speaking to their "friend" before the phone went dead, should be taken lightly, since this person would have a self serving reason, to not speak the truth- if they played any part in this crime.

While it is true that this is a horrible crime, and some have stated that the method of using trash bags to kill the victims, shows anger and hatred, the need to punish them, I am not sure I completely agree with this.
My thoughts are, that it could also be a coward way to kill, kind of a hands off approach, it would seem.
In crimes with extreme anger or hatred, you usually will find more violence, beaten beyond recognition- stabbed beyond what it would take to kill someone, overkill, so to speak.

The marks around the neck could indicate the killer(s) did attempt to strangle the victims first.
Strangulation takes a great deal of time, and strength- although it is not always portrayed this way, on t.v. and movies.
Using plastic bags, accomplishes two objectives, 1) left there long enough, the victims will die, and 2) if the killer does know the victims, he does not have to see them, or see the looks on their face.
If the plastic bags did not come from the home, but were brought there by the killers, it could of been to carry away stolen goods- and not necessarily for the purpose to kill.

The fact that not much was taken from the home, may be due to the panic of things getting out of hand, as well as police being sent to the home for a well check- interrupted?

The friend on the phone, did not contact anyone to say something may be wrong for several hours- which indeed lends to much suspicion.
The lapse in time between the events that took place, and the phone calls to alert someone, would have allowed for establishing alibis, getting stories straight, cleaning up potential evidence- then coming forward as a concerned friend, might be an effort to deflect suspicion as well... One could easily say, why would I be calling for help, and worried about them, if I were involved?

Of course, this is all just my take on things, and I do not pretend to be an expert, nor do I imply, there are no other options. It is just the feeling I get, from what information has been released thus far.
This "friend' may not be involved at all, and if I am wrong about that, I will be the first to say so, but something does not sit right with it all, in my opinion.

And I agree with you again LC, that I think the Police have a good idea of what took place and who is involved, and they are collecting evidence -awaiting results on evidence, before moving forward with an arrest.
That arrest, could not come a day too soon!

And its just a guess, but I think there are at least 2 people involved, probably 3, and one will roll on the others (thinking 2 involved in the break in, but at least 1 other, in setting it up- and this is just a guess!)

This was a senseless and terrible crime- May justice come soon!!!

Well thought out post, Snoopy. Do you have any thoughts about what the robbers were after? I disagree with you on one point though, which is that I think the perps were long gone by the time the alarm was raised so there was no possibility they'd be interrupted during a wellbeing check.

(02-18-2011, 08:14 PM)sharit Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

bet jc said hey tiff were just walkin in the door. lisa probably went first and deactivated the alarm. i too believe they walked in right after them. when the alarm is set and you enter you have 45 seconds to punch in the code.

That would make sense too. Are you thinking they were lying in wait for them, inside the garage?

(02-18-2011, 08:40 PM)onefortheroad Wrote: Well thought out post, Snoopy. Do you have any thoughts about what the robbers were after? I disagree with you on one point though, which is that I think the perps were long gone by the time the alarm was raised so there was no possibility they'd be interrupted during a wellbeing check.

Agree with this too onefortheroad.

On the matter of the key, could that be the door key MT said was kept in the box? Perhaps Lisa had it in her hand when she was attacked?

(02-18-2011, 08:39 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Can anyone decipher the tattoo on left arm?

Maytee would be proud of his looks for sure!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Johnny...57&theater

I can't tell, but it ends with e t t e, & it looks like it starts with a J

I think all of us know without a doubt that Maytee loved her son deeply...none of us think she had anything to do with it at all...she loved him with all of her heart and soul...

however, there is a rumor floating around that her husband got busted with a truck full of heroin and that she turned informant to keep her husband and her out of jail...that maybe someone took revenge on her for snitching on them and going after what she loved most inthe world which was her son...that could be total B.S. but that is what is going around in some of the gangsta circles locally...and that the robbery was secondary... that might have been why she was soooo freaked out with the first phone call...her biggest fear...thinking it was coming to fruition...I totally think that is beyond sad if it is true and almost feel even more sorry for her if it is...

(02-18-2011, 08:45 PM)netsleuth Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 08:40 PM)onefortheroad Wrote: Well thought out post, Snoopy. Do you have any thoughts about what the robbers were after? I disagree with you on one point though, which is that I think the perps were long gone by the time the alarm was raised so there was no possibility they'd be interrupted during a wellbeing check.

Agree with this too onefortheroad.

On the matter of the key, could that be the door key MT said was kept in the box? Perhaps Lisa had it in her hand when she was attacked?

Or the perps entered the house with the key, & during the struggle, it was dropped.

is it possible to know if they victims had been tazed shortly before they died? i just can't imagine that johnny (in particular) could be taped up and have a bag placed over his head and taped unless he was either already incapacitated or at gunpoint. i think they victims may have been strangled and then they bags put on "just to make sure".

i can also see the possibility of the "plan" to be to get lisa to show them where the safe was and/or open the safe for them. i wonder if the realization that there wasn't a safe angered the perps and that is when the perps decided to kill them? i can see the perps not wanting to shoot their guns because of the noise in a quiet neighborhood on a quiet winter night, and also then they would probably have to dispose of the gun, and if they are going to kill two people over a relatively small amount of money, then i doubt they'd want to have to throw a gun away because guns aren't cheap.

it also sounds like a good chance that the perps followed the victims into the house when they got home. were they waiting outside when the victims got home. i bet lisa and johnny were using the garage. why wouldn't you when it's that cold and parents out of town? so, perps hiding out of sight, they know victims are almost to lisa's, car pulls into garage, perps approach side of garage door, the victims push the button to lower garage door as they enter house, perps slip into garage, the victims don't lock door between garage and house since big garage door is closed, perps enter house.

anyway, just some thoughts on the seemingly limitless possibilities.....

(02-18-2011, 11:23 AM)netsleuth Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 10:28 AM)sharit Wrote: jc and ls must have parked in driveway and probably left garage door up. perps came in as ls was changing out of her uniform.and shut garage door jmo. and just coincidence tiff calls to see if they are home yet. then give the signal. they are there!JMO! in my heart i feel she is involved,again just MY opinion. you can bet all players are being watched closely. i do not think it was tiffany here posting.jmo

Sharit, whoever posted had invited here privately ala TW's Facebook account. I think it was her and/or her boyfriend posting here.

Really

(02-18-2011, 08:09 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Manager at TGI Fridays said donations would take place 24^th, 25^th & 26^th February.

http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/...00-dollars

Interesting comment below the article.

Some extra days - very nice.

So the reward is now at $15K. Hopefully someone apart from the perps has information and is desperate enough for a fix that their desire overcomes their fear of what happens to snitches.

I couldn't see any comment about extra days...?

(02-18-2011, 08:47 PM)pspence Wrote: I think all of us know without a doubt that Maytee loved her son deeply...none of us think she had anything to do with it at all...she loved him with all of her heart and soul...

however, there is a rumor floating around that her husband got busted with a truck full of heroin and that she turned informant to keep her husband and her out of jail...that maybe someone took revenge on her for snitching on them and going after what she loved most inthe world which was her son...that could be total B.S. but that is what is going around in some of the gangsta circles locally...and that the robbery was secondary... that might have been why she was soooo freaked out with the first phone call...her biggest fear...thinking it was coming to fruition...I totally think that is beyond sad if it is true and almost feel even more sorry for her if it is...

wow!:O Heroin's been mentioned more than once, in the last 3 weeks, but I can't remember in what context. "truck load of heroin" ???

(02-18-2011, 08:52 PM)sharit Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 11:23 AM)netsleuth Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 10:28 AM)sharit Wrote: jc and ls must have parked in driveway and probably left garage door up. perps came in as ls was changing out of her uniform.and shut garage door jmo. and just coincidence tiff calls to see if they are home yet. then give the signal. they are there!JMO! in my heart i feel she is involved,again just MY opinion. you can bet all players are being watched closely. i do not think it was tiffany here posting.jmo

Sharit, whoever posted was invited here privately ala TW's Facebook account. I think it was her and/or her boyfriend posting here.

Really

My poor sentence structure aside, yes. A mock member invited her to share her side of the story. So, unless someone hacked TW's facebook, or had access, it was her.

(02-18-2011, 08:14 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 08:03 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:33 PM)PURPLECATS Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:21 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:19 PM)PURPLECATS Wrote: Lisa's car was in the garage
then i see it was in the driveway
i have to go with the garage
anyone know for sure?

The only thing I've heard, is the car was in the driveway.

thanks jane
I saw that but that was Tiff that said that i would like to
know from someone else because i have seen it on other
web sites that says garage

I looked at a video, just now. The one where LE is talking to reporters, at the scene, with all the yellow crime scene tape. You can see the house from a distance, but the garage must be off to a side of the home, or in the back, because it's not in the front. There is no car parked in the driveway, that you can see, anyway. If I'm not mistaken, Maytee said the car was there, so if it was in the garage, I was wondering if the garage has windows? .. You're right, I think it was TW who said the car was in the drive.

See the right front of the house? That is the side of the garage and
cars enter to the left of the side, otherwise, one would have to make a
u, pass the front door, to get into the garage. It is a nice way to
include a garage but make the entire house look larger. If you go on
google maps and get close, you can see.

Thanks TC! I didn't think about googling it.

(02-18-2011, 08:21 PM)catch22 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 08:03 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:33 PM)PURPLECATS Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:21 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 07:19 PM)PURPLECATS Wrote: Lisa's car was in the garage
then i see it was in the driveway
i have to go with the garage
anyone know for sure?

The only thing I've heard, is the car was in the driveway.

thanks jane
I saw that but that was Tiff that said that i would like to
know from someone else because i have seen it on other
web sites that says garage

I looked at a video, just now. The one where LE is talking to reporters, at the scene, with all the yellow crime scene tape. You can see the house from a distance, but the garage must be off to a side of the home, or in the back, because it's not in the front. There is no car parked in the driveway, that you can see, anyway. If I'm not mistaken, Maytee said the car was there, so if it was in the garage, I was wondering if the garage has windows? .. You're right, I think it was TW who said the car was in the drive.

i thought the "car in the driveway" was TW's car that maytee had "blocked in" (i guess so she couldn't get away?) in one of the 911 calls. i think i remember someone saying that lisa's car was "there", but not definitively that it was either in the garage or driveway. i might be misremembering, though....

yes, that happened also. Maytee apparently blocked TW's car, at the residence, but I don't know if Lisa's car was in the garage or not ??

(02-18-2011, 08:47 PM)pspence Wrote: I think all of us know without a doubt that Maytee loved her son deeply...none of us think she had anything to do with it at all...she loved him with all of her heart and soul...

however, there is a rumor floating around that her husband got busted with a truck full of heroin and that she turned informant to keep her husband and her out of jail...that maybe someone took revenge on her for snitching on them and going after what she loved most inthe world which was her son...that could be total B.S. but that is what is going around in some of the gangsta circles locally...and that the robbery was secondary... that might have been why she was soooo freaked out with the first phone call...her biggest fear...thinking it was coming to fruition...I totally think that is beyond sad if it is true and almost feel even more sorry for her if it is...

I think you may have mentioned this in an earlier post, and it could fit. Are there any theories as to who might have carried out the murders? And any rumors regarding involvement by TW?

If true, this would be an unbearable burden for a mother to carry, and I agree with you completely.