(02-19-2011, 06:41 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:39 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: Bro is common vernacular, i would not attach much significance to it. (assuming you believe Tiffany's acct.)

remember "don't tase me bro"?

I agree, but what are you doin and who are you...different in my book! IF the call was made!

I agree with you also and I have pointed out that tiffany says 2 different things, sometimes she says he kept sayn bro, what are you doin or bro, who are you and that are to way different question yet she seems not to be able to keep what one was said because it was a lie and people get confused when telling the same lie to so many people.

(02-19-2011, 06:29 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:46 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:40 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:35 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:21 PM)Jane Wrote: Still don't know if I think they knew the perps. I don't doubt Johnny or Lisa told someone her parents were out of town, but it could have been that someone told someone else, & so forth

These are on the board:
"johnnys exact words were "bro wut r u doin"...and then he said tiff ima call u back.thats y i didnt call any one.he said hed call me back.after a hour of him not answering or showing up thats when i drove there. " Post 3098

"i could not hear what the other guy was sayin he sounded kinda far away but also johnny kept asking him bro who are you so he was talking over the man.i only heard 1 voice tho.yes the phone calls did verify. " Post 3111

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read these post anyway you want, BUT IF YOU THINK THAT THE LAST WORDS OUT OF SOMEONE'S MOUTH ISN'T IMPORTANT...I don't know what to tell ya. All I know is what I thought and still do! Her parents left on Friday this is Sunday night

that's why I'm not sure if he really knew them or not. "bro, wut are you doing?" doesn't tell me much. And if he really said "bro, who are you?", that makes me think even more, he didn't know these people. UNLESS they had ski masks on ..

IMO the word "bro" when talking to someone is used amongst friends not someone being met with an intruder

Uhhh...I was recently at a concert and a young man who had a bit too much to drink was engaging in a fight with another guy he didn't even know- a lot of the context of what was said right before the fight got physical was :
"WTF is your problem BRO?!", etc.- A LOT of "bros" were in there.- In fact, that's why it sticks out to me, I thought the Frat boys' term of "Bro" while he was fighting was used waaaay too much before the fight turned physical.
Just sayin'.

point taken

(02-19-2011, 06:41 PM)Jane Wrote: that's how I see it, but I tend to believe Tiffany's story about the phone call

I waffle just a bit but I'm prepared to give all the names I've read the benefit of doubt...for now. I KNOW that life can be stranger than fiction & I also know that life can go from sugar to shit in literally a heartbeat.

(02-19-2011, 06:40 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote: I agree 110%! Tiff, I'll call you back is totally made up, she never once says that on the 911 call and twice she explained that phone call to the operator, not a word of Tiff, I'll call you back. Who wouldn't say that?? I was talking with him, he was arguing with some and he said I'll call you back, TWICE she explained what she heard, yellin and arguing but not once does she say he said 'Tiff, I'll call you back. Used her name too!!
She walks like a duck, she talks like a duck, I think she as fn duck!

l'm definitely seeing a duck

(02-19-2011, 06:40 PM)Unknown Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:38 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:34 PM)Unknown Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:30 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:21 PM)Unknown Wrote: Johnny had every reason to be prepared and panicking, he knows he has screwed over people in the past and one day it'd come back to bite him in the ass. he acted like he could handle it and said let me call you back instead of call the police. This is one of the reason I don't think that convo of what Tiffany says never happened.

Put yourself in his shoe. Someone is in the house with a mask or not & your on the phone with a friend.. what do you do? do you keep say bro who are you?, Bro Who Are You?!, BRO, Who Are You???, BRO WHO ARE YOU!? you let me call you back?

Absolutly not! makes no fn sense at all, call never took place like that sound completly made up by someone who had to come up with something and not give to much info.

So Johnny wasn't a very nice person, was he? He screwed over a lot of people, in the past?? How? Drugs? Money? Jail snitch?

& weren't the bodies found in the living/dining/kitchen area??

All the Above

Tiffany is claiming he said, "bro, what are you doing?" which sounds like you know the person and you know they are getting ready to do something stupid. Johnny knew his friends were stupid and that stupid people do crazy stuff. Especially for money.

I get that but why does he keep repaeting himself like tiffany says, saying over and over "bro, what are you doing?" so she couldnt hear what the other man was sayn. cause its BULLSHIT. She either heard what he was sayn or that shit never happened.

Well I have my own opinion of that. I think Tiffany knows what happened and who did it. I also think she was helping by being on the phone with Johnny. I haven't decided if she was helping the intruders by keeping him on the phone so they could go in after Johnny and Lisa left and the timing got messed up and he met them at the door, or if she was on the phone with Johnny so she could let the intruders know when he was walking out the door so they could walk in to an open door.

If this was not just about finding a safe or money and was more about revenge, then Tiffany would've made sure the intruders were catching Johnny and Lisa right before they walked out the door.

Find the motive and you will be able to unravel the circumstances. Motive is always key.

(02-19-2011, 06:17 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:13 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: I have seen the pics of Johnny in his casket. His face is not mutilated.

You would be amazed at what Morticians can do

I have seen a person in their casket who had a gun shot wound to the head. They tried to make him look normal, it didn't work. If the head is swollen, which would happen if he was beaten, they can't do much for swelling and lacerations.

Yes, but what about the tongue being cut out? If this happened to either one of them, you probably couldn't tell since the lips are closed/sewn shut. (?) His face in the casket pic didn't look too abnormal to me...as far as swelling, etc.
True the morticians do a very good job in some cases though. On a side note, if God forbid I was shot or beat in the head/face, I'd like a closed casket.

(02-19-2011, 06:09 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:03 PM)Unknown Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:58 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:49 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:46 PM)concerned Wrote: IMO the word "bro" when talking to someone is used amongst friends not someone being met with an intruder

"bro" is like "dude" IMO

Right, who are you and bro what are you doin are 2 different things.

Bro who are you? - For sure JC didn't know who the hell he was.

Bro what r u doin? - Could be both, I know you and what are you doing, or in the general sense of "bro", a man, what are you doin, see's the person doing something?? what was he doin??

So yeah I think it is important...JMO

Then after seeing a man that he didnt know and that man was doing something why would he be like let me call you back? why wouldnt you stay on the phone and let the other caller in on what was going on cause Id be scared as hell and Im a big fn guy with a gun. I'd be telln that caller hold on somethings going on or you need to stay on the phone with me or get the cops but no instead he's like let me call you back like its no biggy.

I think it's possible, as the perp came closer to Johnny, he thought he could 'take them on' ... I'm going to say there was no ski mask, now .. Because if they had masks on, it would be more obvious there was trouble coming/panic. For some reason, Johnny wasn't panicked, the first few seconds. Just my thoughts

I agree, I don't think there were masks at this point.

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

(02-19-2011, 06:17 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:13 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: I have seen the pics of Johnny in his casket. His face is not mutilated.

You would be amazed at what Morticians can do

I have seen a person in their casket who had a gun shot wound to the head. They tried to make him look normal, it didn't work. If the head is swollen, which would happen if he was beaten, they can't do much for swelling and lacerations.

I'm looking at the picture of JC in the casket, and there is no visible swelling or marks. Has anyone seen pics of Lisa in the casket?

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

(02-19-2011, 06:36 PM)Unknown Wrote: Dont forget them steak knives that were taken as evidence. why were steak knives taken if JC&JS weren't cut. Humm. IMO He Stabbed one of those fuckers.

Hhmm...good point Unknown. I wonder if the local hospitals have been checked for these types of injuries..?
If johnny got some licks in, I bet he made them count! He was a big boy....

(02-19-2011, 06:41 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

that's how I see it, but I tend to believe Tiffany's story about the phone call .. He wasn't panicked at first, or at least not in the first few seconds.

And which version of Tiffany's phone call story do you believe then?

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

With the phone in his hand, if he sensed danger he could have
dialed 911 or told Tiffany to call 911 or the police.

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

not necessarily. If Tiffany was trying to hook up with Johnny, to get dope, she'd keep trying to get hold of him. jmo

(02-19-2011, 06:56 PM)Inspector Gary Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:17 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:13 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: I have seen the pics of Johnny in his casket. His face is not mutilated.

You would be amazed at what Morticians can do

I have seen a person in their casket who had a gun shot wound to the head. They tried to make him look normal, it didn't work. If the head is swollen, which would happen if he was beaten, they can't do much for swelling and lacerations.

I'm looking at the picture of JC in the casket, and there is no visible swelling or marks. Has anyone seen pics of Lisa in the casket?

no, her parents did not post any on the internet. but i understand she did have an open casket.

(02-19-2011, 06:56 PM)Inspector Gary Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:17 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:13 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:07 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: I have seen the pics of Johnny in his casket. His face is not mutilated.

You would be amazed at what Morticians can do

I have seen a person in their casket who had a gun shot wound to the head. They tried to make him look normal, it didn't work. If the head is swollen, which would happen if he was beaten, they can't do much for swelling and lacerations.

I'm looking at the picture of JC in the casket, and there is no visible swelling or marks. Has anyone seen pics of Lisa in the casket?

Gary, IF I remember correctly,there may have been a couple people here that posted in the past few days that attended her funeral...I can't remember if they said anything about her appearance in the casket however.

(02-19-2011, 06:58 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:41 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

that's how I see it, but I tend to believe Tiffany's story about the phone call .. He wasn't panicked at first, or at least not in the first few seconds.

And which version of Tiffany's phone call story do you believe then?

the only version she posted here , the other night.. It fits with the 911 call, IMO

(02-19-2011, 06:59 PM)concerned Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:57 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:54 PM)Countryside_Belle Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:23 PM)Duchess Wrote:

If that phone call actually happened as TW claims it did then he didn't feel threatened at all and felt whatever was happening at that point was going to be easily handled in a matter of moments.

Agree

If that's true and she could hear that he felt he could handle it, then Tiffany wouldn't have gone over to the house concered. She would've just let Johnny "handle it".

People like that don't want to get involved in other people's business if it doesn't concern them. That's just asking for new enemies.

She went over to the house (and I believe she did) to cause more time to lapse, waste time.

I agree Toledonative

What I'm saying is look at her story. She also made it sound like there was yelling/fight going on. If you listen to the tapes again, Tiffany was concerned. After the phone hung up, she tried to call Lisa's phone and Johnny's phone and texted them. They wouldn't respond. So she had reason to be concerned. You wouldn't wait for your friend's mom to wake up so you could ask her if you can use her car to drive over and "check things out", you would've immediately called police or at least one of Johnny's tough guy friends. You wouldn't wait for a car and then take your big pregnant self over there alone. C'MON PEOPLE...keep believing Tiffany...

(02-19-2011, 06:44 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:40 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 06:03 PM)Unknown Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:58 PM)EastCoastKat Wrote:

(02-19-2011, 05:49 PM)Jane Wrote: "bro" is like "dude" IMO

Right, who are you and bro what are you doin are 2 different things.

Bro who are you? - For sure JC didn't know who the hell he was.

Bro what r u doin? - Could be both, I know you and what are you doing, or in the general sense of "bro", a man, what are you doin, see's the person doing something?? what was he doin??

So yeah I think it is important...JMO

Then after seeing a man that he didnt know and that man was doing something why would he be like let me call you back? why wouldnt you stay on the phone and let the other caller in on what was going on cause Id be scared as hell and Im a big fn guy with a gun. I'd be telln that caller hold on somethings going on or you need to stay on the phone with me or get the cops but no instead he's like let me call you back like its no biggy.

I agree 110%! Tiff, I'll call you back is totally made up, she never once says that on the 911 call and twice she explained that phone call to the operator, not a word of Tiff, I'll call you back. Who wouldn't say that?? I was talking with him, he was arguing with some and he said I'll call you back, TWICE she explained what she heard, yellin and arguing but not once does she say he said 'Tiff, I'll call you back. Used her name too!!
She walks like a duck, she talks like a duck, I think she as fn duck!

Tiffany spoke with the 911 dispatcher twice ?

No, she repeats it twice...

TW...I will
Hello
911...Whats going on there?
TW...ok umm My friend Johnny and Lisa they were suppose to come pick me up. me and my friend. from our house and this was like 11 oclock and ummm he ummm I was on the phone with his gf Lisa and then he hung up, and ummm we all hung up, and he said they were on their way and then he...I called Johnny right back cuz I was gonna tell him that I was gonna run to the store and then I would meet them at the house.. well ummm he was yellin at somebody like ummm I'm on ... he goes..bro who are you.. and then umm..I called him right back and he didn't answer. so I texted my friend Lisa's phone and and I was like umm where are you are, are you guys okay and they have not answered to me nothing they have not answered the phone and I been callin and callin...callin

So I drove out to their house after umm my friends mom got home and umm nobody answered the door so I drove back by our house to see if maybe they went to his moms house and umm but he wasn't there and ummm so his dad called my phone and I was like do you want a ride out there and he says yeah and I brought him out here and now his moms arguing with me saying I set them up and you know their my friends and Im worried about them and I don't have and you know Im worried about my friends because they were suppose to come pick me up and I mean they never showed up.
911: okay does any have.. what's the son's name, what's her son's name Johnny is that his name?
TW: Yeah, Johnny Clarke
911: Does anybody have his phone number?
TW. Yeah I do but his phones shut off
911: okay
TW: Umm we was callin and it was ringing but then it shut off all of a sudden and then I was callin my friends phone and I been texting her asking her if she okay are they okay cause they wouldn't answer and then I texted her like last I talked to you ummm I heard him arguing and then now all of sudden they haven't picked up the phone or nothing.
911: Okay, are you are there a couple of officers out there?
TW: Yeah, there some officer out here
911: Why don't you go talk to them go talk to them and they can help you. okay
TW: I'll put his mother back on the phone
911: Okay, actually I don't need to talk to her, talk to the officiers.
TW: Okay,
911: Okay
TW: Alright
911: Bye, bye

First time SHE HAD A CHANCE TO SAY HE WAS GONNA CALL ME BACK:

well ummm he was yellin at somebody like ummm I'm on ... he goes..bro who are you.. and then umm.. HE SAID HE WOULD CALL ME BACK, I called him right back and he didn't answer--NOPE NO CALL ME BACK HERE

Second time SHE HAD A CHANCE TO SAY HE WAS GONNA CALL ME BACK:
like last I talked to you ummm I heard him arguing HE SAID HE WOULD CALL ME BACK and then now all of sudden they haven't picked up the phone or nothing--NOPE NO CALL ME BACK HERE EITHER

Both times in the conversation she is relaying what she heard and what JC said to her, why wouldn't she say he was going to call me back??? BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE...THAT'S WHY!