(03-07-2011, 03:24 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:18 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:06 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:58 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

Crap, crap, crap.

Just projection and transference; she's trying to take the focus off her son and any negative aspects of his life/background.

A crazy ex would explain why both Johnny and Lisa were killed but wouldn't, at least in my mind, explain the holes punched in the walk-in closet.

It was noted that LS's ex was at her funeral. I'm sure he's been interviewed out the ass and cleared.

Crimes of passion are not usually done this way. This was more methodical.

Good point about the ex of Lisa's being at her funeral. I'm sure LE has hounded him to death. You know the only thing I have arrived at in reading and re-reading the articles from January to a week or so ago is that LE's opinion on what has happened has changed...and changed again...and changed again. Which leads me to believe LE simply has nothing to work with or to go on. There might be DNA...there SHOULD BE DNA but it is entirely possible the perps DNA is not in the database and it is entirely possible that no DNA was left. I think someone mentioned the perps DNA was left in blood in the kitchen, possibly where Johnny had knifed him. Barring this, the hope is for DNA in fingerprints on the duct tape's sticky side or shiney side. It is possible to work with duct tape if you wear rawhide gloves. Duct tape is going to stick, and stick like glue, on any smooth surface.

Yeah, but like many have said, if there is no one to match it to then it's worthless.

If this was a professional hit - and all signs lead that way - then the killers are probably not "in the system".

Possible (likely) scenario:

The "hit" is ordered by a large drug organization/cartel. The killers are hired from out-of-state or country and have no previous arrests or convictions (thus no prints or DNA to match them to). They are not from the area and therefore are long gone when the bodies are found.

Police are chasing their tails in circles.

Yeah, but like many have said, if there is no one to match it to then it's worthless.

If this was a professional hit - and all signs lead that way - then the killers are probably not "in the system".

Possible (likely) scenario:

The "hit" is ordered by a large drug organization/cartel. The killers are hired from out-of-state or country and have no previous arrests or convictions (thus no prints or DNA to match them to). They are not from the area and therefore are long gone when the bodies are found.

Police are chasing their tails in circles.
[/quote]So why in the world would you order a hit on a couple of teenagers? THAT doesn't make a bit of sense and a professional hit doesn't consist of a couple of grocery sacks and a roll of tape, either. I can almost buy the out of state theory but BBY bags and tape? Get outta here.

(03-07-2011, 03:37 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:31 AM)AriGold Wrote:

I don't think they parked a vehicle out front. Again, too risky. Too many variables (nosy neighbor or something). They could have parked elsewhere and walked there. I remember hearing there was a school behind the house somewhere. They could have parked there and walked over. If dressed in black, it'd be unlikely for anyone to notice them or hear any noise. The lot the house sits on is pretty big according to Google Maps.

Also, I don't think they came with the safe in mind. The "safe" might have been brought up by either JC or LS as a means of bargaining for the life.

All the same -- depending on how long the struggle (if any) lasted, they could have been in and out in 30 min max.

For example:

5 min struggle (and if you've ever been in a fight, you know 5 min is a LONG time; it feels like hours).

5 min to tie them up (if they came prepared with materials and with multiple people, this shouldn't even take that long)

10 minutes to search house (look for safe, disable security system, etc)

10 minutes to clean up and get the fuck out.

Keep in mind, it only takes about 6 minutes to die from lack of air.

That is an interesting perspective. I'm sure the perps would not have wanted to linger in the house. Not at all. It also just seems that the perps knew Johnny and Lisa would be there alone...and we're back to TW having had a hand in what went down that cold night in January. But now didn't she set up another group in pretty much a robbery gone bad?


[/quote]

They could have been casing the house or following them for sometime. Any professional killer would stalk their "prey". I know that sounds harsh, but it's the reality. I'm sure their schedules were somewhat consistent (Lisa had a job, etc) and once the parents left it was a prime opportunity.

I initially wanted to finger TW (no pun) for this but at this point I think she was just a victim of bad circumstances, timing and lifestyle.

Neither her nor her "crew" seem smart enough to be involved in this. Most of those little gangbangers weigh about 105 and even if there were two of them (gun or no gun) JC would have fucked them up visibly.

They could have been casing the house or following them for sometime. Any professional killer would stalk their "prey". I know that sounds harsh, but it's the reality. I'm sure their schedules were somewhat consistent (Lisa had a job, etc) and once the parents left it was a prime opportunity.

I initially wanted to finger TW (no pun) for this but at this point I think she was just a victim of bad circumstances, timing and lifestyle.

Neither her nor her "crew" seem smart enough to be involved in this. Most of those little gangbangers weigh about 105 and even if there were two of them (gun or no gun) JC would have fucked them up visibly.

[/quote]

(03-07-2011, 03:43 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:38 AM)AriGold Wrote:

Yeah, but like many have said, if there is no one to match it to then it's worthless.

If this was a professional hit - and all signs lead that way - then the killers are probably not "in the system".

Possible (likely) scenario:

The "hit" is ordered by a large drug organization/cartel. The killers are hired from out-of-state or country and have no previous arrests or convictions (thus no prints or DNA to match them to). They are not from the area and therefore are long gone when the bodies are found.

Police are chasing their tails in circles.

So why in the world would you order a hit on a couple of teenagers? THAT doesn't make a bit of sense and a professional hit doesn't consist of a couple of grocery sacks and a roll of tape, either. I can almost buy the out of state theory but BBY bags and tape? Get outta here.


[/quote]

They weren't teenagers. JC was 21 and LS was 20, if I'm not mistaken.

Many drug cartel murders/executions are done in this, or similar manner. The reasoning behind it is the same as I said earlier: to make a statement. These cartels will kill anybody that gets in their way and they usually do it in a public and heinous manner. It's an effective tactic, meant to strike fear into others.

The possible motives for murder are: profit, revenge, jealousy, to conceal a crime, to avoid humiliation & disgrace, or plain old homicidal mania. Right there in the manual.

(03-07-2011, 03:51 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:44 AM)AriGold Wrote:

They could have been casing the house or following them for sometime. Any professional killer would stalk their "prey". I know that sounds harsh, but it's the reality. I'm sure their schedules were somewhat consistent (Lisa had a job, etc) and once the parents left it was a prime opportunity.

I initially wanted to finger TW (no pun) for this but at this point I think she was just a victim of bad circumstances, timing and lifestyle.

Neither her nor her "crew" seem smart enough to be involved in this. Most of those little gangbangers weigh about 105 and even if there were two of them (gun or no gun) JC would have fucked them up visibly.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought a pro would have stalked his hit but that does make sense. So I am back to being hung up on why would anyone hire a professional hit on a wanna-be barber and his waitress g/f? I cannot see either one of them that heavily into drugs that one would want a professional hit done on them...and can't imagine anything in prison could have gone down bad enough to put out a hit, either. I'd lean more that way than I would with a professional hit being ordered based on drug dealing. You'd have to be moving more of the stuff than I think Johnny and Lisa were even dreaming about moving.


[/quote]

They weren't teenagers. JC was 21 and LS was 20, if I'm not mistaken.

Many drug cartel murders/executions are done in this, or similar manner. The reasoning behind it is the same as I said earlier: to make a statement. These cartels will kill anybody that gets in their way and they usually do it in a public and heinous manner. It's an effective tactic, meant to strike fear into others.

The possible motives for murder are: profit, revenge, jealousy, to conceal a crime, to avoid humiliation & disgrace, or plain old homicidal mania. Right there in the manual.




[/quote]Johnny and Lisa were so close to still being teenagers, I bet you they both still had their wisdom teeth. There not much difference between 18 and 21. It did make a statement, this manner of death...I'll give you that, Ari.

(03-07-2011, 03:56 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:53 AM)AriGold Wrote:

They weren't teenagers. JC was 21 and LS was 20, if I'm not mistaken.

Many drug cartel murders/executions are done in this, or similar manner. The reasoning behind it is the same as I said earlier: to make a statement. These cartels will kill anybody that gets in their way and they usually do it in a public and heinous manner. It's an effective tactic, meant to strike fear into others.

The possible motives for murder are: profit, revenge, jealousy, to conceal a crime, to avoid humiliation & disgrace, or plain old homicidal mania. Right there in the manual.

Johnny and Lisa were so close to still being teenagers, I bet you they both still had their wisdom teeth. There not much difference between 18 and 21. It did make a statement, this manner of death...I'll give you that, Ari.


[/quote]

Be that as it may, they were "adults" in every way.....except perhaps maturity.

The news is riddled with stories of what "teenagers" are capable of doing to themselves and others. Add in a mix of drugs and/or gangs and it becomes a way of life; instilled in them from a very early age.

While I in no way mean to insinuate they deserved their death (they most certainly did not) the fact remains: if you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

It's a terrible cliche -- but sadly true.

(03-07-2011, 04:09 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:56 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:53 AM)AriGold Wrote:

They weren't teenagers. JC was 21 and LS was 20, if I'm not mistaken.

Many drug cartel murders/executions are done in this, or similar manner. The reasoning behind it is the same as I said earlier: to make a statement. These cartels will kill anybody that gets in their way and they usually do it in a public and heinous manner. It's an effective tactic, meant to strike fear into others.

The possible motives for murder are: profit, revenge, jealousy, to conceal a crime, to avoid humiliation & disgrace, or plain old homicidal mania. Right there in the manual.

Johnny and Lisa were so close to still being teenagers, I bet you they both still had their wisdom teeth. There not much difference between 18 and 21. It did make a statement, this manner of death...I'll give you that, Ari.

Be that as it may, they were "adults" in every way.....except perhaps maturity.

The news is riddled with stories of what "teenagers" are capable of doing to themselves and others. Add in a mix of drugs and/or gangs and it becomes a way of life; instilled in them from a very early age.

While I in no way mean to insinuate they deserved their death (they most certainly did not) the fact remains: if you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

It's a terrible cliche -- but sadly true.



[/quote]They were absolutely flying too close to the flame.

(03-07-2011, 12:09 AM)ToledoNative Wrote: Weirdest combination of science and voodoo I ever did see...
We'll call it...Maydoo

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote: Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

I've always found it very odd that the wires being cut did not immediately summon the police. It doesn't even make a little bit of sense to me. If that's truly the case then everyone who has that system installed in their homes should be made aware that it's utterly worthless, it won't protect anyone & here is your proof.

(03-07-2011, 06:55 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote: Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

I've always found it very odd that the wires being cut did not immediately summon the police. It doesn't even make a little bit of sense to me. If that's truly the case then everyone who has that system installed in their homes should be made aware that it's utterly worthless, it won't protect anyone & here is your proof.

Good Morning, Duchess. But, do we know for sure that the wires were cut? I read and re-read a dozen or more articles tonight regarding this case and in not one did I see anything about the wires being cut to the security system. So I'm beginning to think that may not have happened, but who knows.

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

LOL because someone said that they were but it could have been one of those "psst psst by the way, did you hear?" kind of deals. But, I did not read that in any of the news articles tonight. Not even a hint of wires being cut or tampered with. The articles mentioned the security system papers being out but that was it.

(03-07-2011, 07:22 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

LOL because someone said that they were but it could have been one of those "psst psst by the way, did you hear?" kind of deals. But, I did not read that in any of the news articles tonight. Not even a hint of wires being cut or tampered with. The articles mentioned the security system papers being out but that was it.

I believe that the uncle said that the security system was not working at the time...like it had been turned off, deactivated, bill not payed, that kind of thing. *From what I can remember*

(03-07-2011, 06:55 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote: Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

I've always found it very odd that the wires being cut did not immediately summon the police. It doesn't even make a little bit of sense to me. If that's truly the case then everyone who has that system installed in their homes should be made aware that it's utterly worthless, it won't protect anyone & here is your proof.

Exactly. I never saw the logic in that. Most alarm systems (including mine) require a separate phone line and connection that will dial out to emergency if anything goes wrong with it.

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

It was mentioned somewhere, cause I remember it too.

Not officially of course; it was a "rumor".

(03-07-2011, 12:52 AM)AriGold Wrote: I agree...to infinity n beyond.

hahahaaa!

(03-07-2011, 08:08 AM)fabulous Wrote: I believe that the uncle said that the security system was not working at the time...like it had been turned off, deactivated, bill not payed, that kind of thing. *From what I can remember*

you're right. That's what Lisa's Uncle said.

(03-07-2011, 09:46 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 07:19 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Well...shit.

Why the hell am I under the impression the wires were cut? WTF

It was mentioned somewhere, cause I remember it too.

Not officially of course; it was a "rumor".

by unknown