Haha Netsleuth! It's pretty easy to forget certain things in a thread that's reaching 1050 pages long now. Lots of ideas have been tossed out & forgotten along the way. Kitty, in my experience, time of death when there is no witness of the death is based upon the time the victim is last known to be alive & the time they are found.

I have been following this post from just about the beginning but have never posted. What I keep wondering is...what the hell did the Clarke's do between the 2^nd and 3^rd 911 call. Wasn't it said somewhere that John Sr. was waiting for the cops to leave and he was going in the house or going to kick the door in? What took 2 hours for him to kick the door in after the 2^nd 911 call and before the 3^rd call when he found the bodies?

On another note, during the autopsy, the contents of their stomachs could have revealed pills that hadn't been digested yet, indicating the time frame that they took the pills.

(04-06-2011, 11:25 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:01 PM)kitty1 Wrote: Now I'm confused about something else. I can't believe out of all these fuckin pages and posts that this never occured to me. Maybe someone already discussed it and I'm having a brain malfunction.

If family was present since the first call, then why would coroner place time of death from 11 to 3am? The family was present from probably 1:45 until bodies were discovered. To me that would mean that they had to have been killed before the first call. They had to have been killed before that time. Right? What am I not understanding here? we have discussed these calls a thousand times...so why do I see them differently now? That would be freshbait thank you! It seems too obvious that the timeline is fucked up. Now I'm gonna feel like a real ass if someone gets on here and says "I said that about 500 pages ago dumbass" It is just too much detail for this old Kitty to keep straight God Damnit!

It was more than 500 pages ago........it first appears on page 269

- netsleuth - 02-17-2011 08:02 PM

Question on time of death. How can the time of death be between 1-4 am when the police arrived at about 1? Unless I remember the TOD incorrectly? Which ... is entirely possible. Anyone know?

But that was just saying to me that the police didn't find them cause they didn't peek in the windows. I'm talking about the family being present since the first call. The time of LE's arrival and time of death have nothing to do with each other in this case. They were dead in the house before the police got there. Unless one believes that Maytee, tiffany, JOhn Sr. and the cousin and Z all conspired to kill them (because they were all there).

Kitty. re timeline~~~~~~~:Think everyone was confused because they believed that TW had actually talked
to Johhny around 11:00 P.M. I never believed that; think she called his phone to establish her alibi, but
think someone else (one of the perps) answered Johnny's cell. As i said in previous post, I think Johnny and
Lisa were dead within the hour of the call.

(04-06-2011, 11:40 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: Kitty. re timeline~~~~~~~:Think everyone was confused because they believed that TW had actually talked
to Johhny around 11:00 P.M. I never believed that; think she called his phone to establish her alibi, but
think someone else (one of the perps) answered Johnny's cell. As i said in previous post, I think Johnny and
Lisa were dead within the hour of the call.

I have to admit I never thought about that but I do now and thats a very good point! I can't wait until they make some arrests!

I need to re-word my last post cuz i think it was a little confusing. "netsleuth" said "how can time of death be between 1 and 4 if LE was there at 1?

My question was and is "how can time of death be between 11 and 3 if several family members were present and never left from approx. 1:40ish am until bodies were discovered.

To me the time of death HAS TO BE between 11 and approx 1:45 otherwise one would be saying that they were murdered while half the family and friends were in the driveway and walking around the house. Or one would be saying that those people in the driveway committed the crime. Am I making sense?????

(04-06-2011, 11:34 PM)kitty1 Wrote: But that was just saying to me that the police didn't find them cause they didn't peek in the windows. I'm talking about the family being present since the first call. The time of LE's arrival and time of death have nothing to do with each other in this case. They were dead in the house before the police got there. Unless one believes that Maytee, tiffany, JOhn Sr. and the cousin and Z all conspired to kill them (because they were all there).

It must have something to do with it...you are using it to establish a cronology supporting your correct assertion that they must have been dead before the first call or first LE arrival. That squeezes the drug taking, the muliple visits by TW before picking up JC senior, and the murders into a much smaller Time Line. If someone could establish the time LS got off work it would be narrowed even more. That is alot to take place in 2 hours i.e. 11:20 to 1:20..., seems more plausable 10:20-1:20

(04-06-2011, 11:46 PM)kitty1 Wrote: I need to re-word my last post cuz i think it was a little confusing. "netsleuth" said "how can time of death be between 1 and 4 if LE was there at 1?

My question was and is "how can time of death be between 11 and 3 if several family members were present and never left from approx. 1:40ish am until bodies were discovered.

To me the time of death HAS TO BE between 11 and approx 1:45 otherwise one would be saying that they were murdered while half the family and friends were in the driveway and walking around the house. Or one would be saying that those people in the driveway committed the crime. Am I making sense?????

I agree....also remember that TW said she had gone there before going to the Clarkes to get JC senior. She said there was no activity at the house. More eyewitness on site to help narrow the time of the murders, of course unless somehow she was involved as a lookout and had a reason to mislead the investigation...IMO-

(04-06-2011, 11:48 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:34 PM)kitty1 Wrote: But that was just saying to me that the police didn't find them cause they didn't peek in the windows. I'm talking about the family being present since the first call. The time of LE's arrival and time of death have nothing to do with each other in this case. They were dead in the house before the police got there. Unless one believes that Maytee, tiffany, JOhn Sr. and the cousin and Z all conspired to kill them (because they were all there).

It must have something to do with it...you are using it to establish a cronology supporting your correct assertion that they must have been dead before the first call or first LE arrival. That squeezes the drug taking, the muliple visits by TW before picking up JC senior, and the murders into a much smaller Time Line. If someone could establish the time LS got off work it would be narrowed even more. That is alot to take place in 2 hours i.e. 11:20 to 1:20..., seems more plausable 10:20-1:20

But I'M NOT using the police to establish my timeline..that's what I'm saying. I'm using a group of people's arrival at the crime scene as a timeline.

(04-06-2011, 11:34 PM)Sillygirl Wrote: What I keep wondering is...what the hell did the Clarke's do between the 2^nd and 3^rd 911 call. Wasn't it said somewhere that John Sr. was waiting for the cops to leave and he was going in the house or going to kick the door in? What took 2 hours for him to kick the door in after the 2^nd 911 call and before the 3^rd call when he found the bodies?

I thought about this too. The 2^nd 911 call was made at 2:07am Let's just say that LE arrived on scene at 2:15am I read that LE stayed the 2^nd time for about 30 minutes. That brings the time to 2:45. In my mind I picture them (LE) sitting outside of the Straubs house writing their report. I see them telling the Clarkes to leave, try again the morning blah blah blah. What if the Clarkes drove all the way back to their house (15-20 minute drive) got there & decided to go back & kick in the door. That's another 15-20 minute drive back so that will take us up to about 3:15- 3:30am. The Clarkes arive back on the scene, walk around the house, look in the window in the back of the house.... see what they see, cousin runs around yelling for Maytee to call 911, John runs around & kicks in door. 3^rd 911 call made at 3:40 am

(04-06-2011, 11:55 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:46 PM)kitty1 Wrote: To me the time of death HAS TO BE between 11 and approx 1:45 otherwise one would be saying that they were murdered while half the family and friends were in the driveway and walking around the house. Or one would be saying that those people in the driveway committed the crime. Am I making sense?????

I agree....also remember that TW said she had gone there before going to the Clarkes to get JC senior. She said there was no activity at the house. More eyewitness on site to help narrow the time of the murders, of course unless somehow she was involved as a lookout and had a reason to mislead the investigation...IMO-

Bingo!

(04-06-2011, 11:58 PM)kitty1 Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:48 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:34 PM)kitty1 Wrote: But that was just saying to me that the police didn't find them cause they didn't peek in the windows. I'm talking about the family being present since the first call. The time of LE's arrival and time of death have nothing to do with each other in this case. They were dead in the house before the police got there. Unless one believes that Maytee, tiffany, JOhn Sr. and the cousin and Z all conspired to kill them (because they were all there).

It must have something to do with it...you are using it to establish a cronology supporting your correct assertion that they must have been dead before the first call or first LE arrival. That squeezes the drug taking, the muliple visits by TW before picking up JC senior, and the murders into a much smaller Time Line. If someone could establish the time LS got off work it would be narrowed even more. That is alot to take place in 2 hours i.e. 11:20 to 1:20..., seems more plausable 10:20-1:20

But I'M NOT using the police to establish my timeline..that's what I'm saying. I'm using a group of people's arrival at the crime scene as a timeline.

Then the conclusion has to be that LE DOSEN'T TRUST ANY OF THE PLAYERS TO NOT BE ABOVE SUSPICION....TW,or the Clarkes

(04-06-2011, 11:58 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:34 PM)Sillygirl Wrote: What I keep wondering is...what the hell did the Clarke's do between the 2^nd and 3^rd 911 call. Wasn't it said somewhere that John Sr. was waiting for the cops to leave and he was going in the house or going to kick the door in? What took 2 hours for him to kick the door in after the 2^nd 911 call and before the 3^rd call when he found the bodies?

I thought about this too. The 2^nd 911 call was made at 2:07am Let's just say that LE arrived on scene at 2:15am I read that LE stayed the 2^nd time for about 30 minutes. That brings the time to 2:45. In my mind I picture them (LE) sitting outside of the Straubs house writing their report. I see them telling the Clarkes to leave, try again the morning blah blah blah. What if the Clarkes drove all the way back to their house (15-20 minute drive) got there & decided to go back & kick in the door. That's another 15-20 minute drive back so that will take us up to about 3:15- 3:30am. The Clarkes arive back on the scene, walk around the house, look in the window in the back of the house.... see what they see, cousin runs around yelling for Maytee to call 911, John runs around & kicks in door. 3^rd 911 call made at 3:40 am

I just can't believe that Maytee would go home. she was so frantic. I don't think anything would have pulled her away. I remember some where Maytee(i think) commented that "we waited for the police to leave then we kicked the door in.

(04-07-2011, 12:01 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-06-2011, 11:58 PM)kitty1 Wrote: [quote='ZEROSPHERES' pid='154780' dateline='1302148136']
[quote='kitty1' pid='154775' dateline='1302147283']

Then the conclusion has to be that LE DOSEN'T TRUST ANY OF THE PLAYERS TO NOT BE ABOVE SUSPICION....TW,or the Clarkes

Bingo!

(04-07-2011, 12:03 AM)kitty1 Wrote: I just can't believe that Maytee would go home. she was so frantic. I don't think anything would have pulled her away. I remember some where Maytee(i think) commented that "we waited for the police to leave then we kicked the door in.

Could be that they just drove around the block but in my minds eye, I don't see the police leaving & allowing the Clarkes to sit there in the driveway. I can see the police telling them to just go home & try again in the morning. If they did just drive around the block & were fortunate enough LE left immediatly after they did, then I have no idea what they did for more than a hour. I doubt they walked around the exterior of the house for a whole hour. That's a long time.

(04-07-2011, 12:10 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(04-07-2011, 12:03 AM)kitty1 Wrote: I just can't believe that Maytee would go home. she was so frantic. I don't think anything would have pulled her away. I remember some where Maytee(i think) commented that "we waited for the police to leave then we kicked the door in.

Could be that they just drove around the block but in my minds eye, I don't see the police leaving & allowing the Clarkes to sit there in the driveway. I can see the police telling them to just go home & try again in the morning. If they did just drive around the block & were fortunate enough LE left immediatly after they did, then I have no idea what they did for more than a hour. I doubt they walked around the exterior of the house for a whole hour. That's a long time.

I know an hour seems long, but I think the three of them (Maytee, her cousin and John Sr.) stood around trying to figure what friends of his or her's to call, they probably discussed Tiffany..."I know that bitch did something....she set him up blah blah blah, looked in the windows, tried to get in garage perhaps, smoked a bunch of cigs, called a bunch of their friends. Sometimes an hour isn't too long when you have a couple of people with you. I think that Maytee could probably find plenty to talk about to fill that hour...when she is extremely upset she seems to talk more. Just an idea.

(04-07-2011, 12:23 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(04-07-2011, 12:10 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(04-07-2011, 12:03 AM)kitty1 Wrote: I just can't believe that Maytee would go home. she was so frantic. I don't think anything would have pulled her away. I remember some where Maytee(i think) commented that "we waited for the police to leave then we kicked the door in.

Could be that they just drove around the block but in my minds eye, I don't see the police leaving & allowing the Clarkes to sit there in the driveway. I can see the police telling them to just go home & try again in the morning. If they did just drive around the block & were fortunate enough LE left immediatly after they did, then I have no idea what they did for more than a hour. I doubt they walked around the exterior of the house for a whole hour. That's a long time.

I know an hour seems long, but I think the three of them (Maytee, her cousin and John Sr.) stood around trying to figure what friends of his or her's to call, they probably discussed Tiffany..."I know that bitch did something....she set him up blah blah blah, looked in the windows, tried to get in garage perhaps, smoked a bunch of cigs, called a bunch of their friends. Sometimes an hour isn't too long when you have a couple of people with you. I think that Maytee could probably find plenty to talk about to fill that hour...when she is extremely upset she seems to talk more. Just an idea.

So between the 'NAMED PLAYERS' walking around leaving footprints and handprints everywhere, outside and in....and the 'Un-named Perps' being there at a party the night or two before the crime; LE has a seperation problem as to what has been gathered that's relavent to the crime and what's not. Assuming the perps were smart enough to wear gloves and didn't leave their own blood behind, here's hoping a bloody shoe print was found, or something else bathed in the victims blood that would link them without a doubt to their deed.

(04-07-2011, 12:35 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: I know an hour seems long, but I think the three of them (Maytee, her cousin and John Sr.) stood around trying to figure what friends of his or her's to call, they probably discussed Tiffany..."I know that bitch did something....she set him up blah blah blah, looked in the windows, tried to get in garage perhaps, smoked a bunch of cigs, called a bunch of their friends. Sometimes an hour isn't too long when you have a couple of people with you. I think that Maytee could probably find plenty to talk about to fill that hour...when she is extremely upset she seems to talk more. Just an idea.

So between the 'NAMED PLAYERS' walking around leaving footprints and handprints everywhere, outside and in....and the 'Un-named Perps' being there at a party the night or two before the crime; LE has a seperation problem as to what has been gathered that's relavent to the crime and what's not. Assuming the perps were smart enough to wear gloves and didn't leave their own blood behind, here's hoping a bloody shoe print was found, or something else bathed in the victims blood that would link them without a doubt to their deed.
[/quote]

I always thought it would be "cool" to be a detective, but I have since changed my mind. What a frustrating job! I wouldn't be able to sleep...up all night thinking of scenerios, etc.

(04-07-2011, 12:45 AM)kitty1 Wrote: I always thought it would be "cool" to be a detective, but I have since changed my mind. What a frustrating job! I wouldn't be able to sleep...up all night thinking of scenerios, etc.

You mean like we are doing tonite...LOL.
<<---thats how I feel sometimes because my mind won't 'turn off'
I like your sleuthing...i.e. your conclusion about the TOD

(04-07-2011, 01:02 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(04-07-2011, 12:45 AM)kitty1 Wrote: I always thought it would be "cool" to be a detective, but I have since changed my mind. What a frustrating job! I wouldn't be able to sleep...up all night thinking of scenerios, etc.

You mean like we are doing tonite...LOL.
<<---thats how I feel sometimes because my mind won't 'turn off'
I like your sleuthing...i.e. your conclusion about the TOD