When a state university is embroiled in one of the most heinous scandals in the history of American higher education—and that’s the plane we’re on now; never mind where this stands among college sports scandals—here is what you do not want to hear about the principals involved, two days after felony indictments are handed down …

Athletic director requests and is granted an administrative leave. Former vice president is allowed to return to retirement.

Legendary football coach: Issues a statement pleading ignorance to the most serious accusation in which he’s directly involved.



Story

A potential ninth victim has contacted authorities to say that former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky sexually abused him, according to The Patriot-News of Harrisburg.

Lt. David Young told the AP on Tuesday that a man, now an adult, contacted the sate police on Sunday after seeing media reports of Sandusky’s arrest.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...z1d99SXo7M

I predict there will be many more, possibly some men in their 30's and 40's. Sandusky didn't wake-up one morning in 1994 and say, "Well I sure feel like molesting a young boy today." This had to have been going on for years.

I can't imagine happening upon an adult banging a 10-year old and not calling the police. I don't get it.

(11-08-2011, 06:10 PM)lawheeze Wrote: I can't imagine happening upon an adult banging a 10-year old and not calling the police. I don't get it.

EXACTLY! If it was a little girl being raped, would you walk away? NO. Did they not think it was so bad because it was a boy? Were they afraid of a "homo" label being branded on the football program by proxy? (Even though pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same.) Wouldn't you at least say, "Hey, get off of him!" and go right to the phone and call 911? A *RAPE* was occurring, for chrissakes!

(11-08-2011, 12:59 PM)MikeyA Wrote:

(11-08-2011, 11:24 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: I just read the article Lady Cop posted and I have changed my opinion of Paterno. I was understanding he went with the info to the school administrators who dropped the ball. Now it appears he just protected his cronie and has no moral backbone.

It's easy for people judge him and say he should have done this and he should have done that but he did was he was supposed to do it wasn't the "minimum" it was what was required. Had he done anything more he could have opened the school, athletic dept, and himself up to possible lawsuit because he doesn't have authority other than football and football related decisions.

How would calling the police open himself up to a lawsuit?

Ya know, one thing I've noticed is an attitude of talking about this as if someone had walked in on Sandusky and an adult male having consensual sex in the shower. I have a 10-year-old nephew and he and his friends still play with Star Wars Legos. THEY ARE CHILDREN. Sandusky was RAPING A CHILD!!! Where is the goddamn outrage???

(11-08-2011, 06:51 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote:

(11-08-2011, 12:59 PM)MikeyA Wrote:

(11-08-2011, 11:24 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote: I just read the article Lady Cop posted and I have changed my opinion of Paterno. I was understanding he went with the info to the school administrators who dropped the ball. Now it appears he just protected his cronie and has no moral backbone.

It's easy for people judge him and say he should have done this and he should have done that but he did was he was supposed to do it wasn't the "minimum" it was what was required. Had he done anything more he could have opened the school, athletic dept, and himself up to possible lawsuit because he doesn't have authority other than football and football related decisions.

How would calling the police open himself up to a lawsuit?

Because he wasn't a witness to the inappropriate behavior. What he knew was second hand. He had already asked Sandusky to turn in his resignation two years prior.

Had Sandusky been found not to have done anything he'd have a clear suit for Defamation of character which requires malice and damage. Sandusky could claim malice because of previously being asked to resign and damage to his character through false accusations brought to civilian authorities. It's also could be grounds for harassment.

Now if Joe was a witness to the behavior he could notify civilian authorities but if you read on the case you learn not only did Joe find out second hand he also didn't know the full details of what took place.

It was on the Grad assistant to call the cops and it was up to Joe to notify his superiors.

(11-08-2011, 06:55 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Ya know, one thing I've noticed is an attitude of talking about this as if someone had walked in on Sandusky and an adult male having consensual sex in the shower. I have a 10-year-old nephew and he and his friends still play with Star Wars Legos. THEY ARE CHILDREN. Sandusky was RAPING A CHILD!!! Where is the goddamn outrage???

I have not seen anything that showed the Grad Assistant witnessed a rape. It's been described as inappropriate behavior between a minor and adult in a shower in what I've read. That doesn't mean rape.

So before going into blind outrage why not get the facts first because inappropriate behavior could be anything. It's reasons like this that things like urinating in public get people listed as sexual predators.

By God you can't make this up. Truth really is stranger than fiction...

Jerry Sandusky wrote a book called "Touched"

Over a period of ten years, beginning in 1991, Sandusky worked with former equipment manager and Penn State journalism student Kip Richeal to record what Sandusky called a "unique" life. What they eventually produced, in 2000, was the book "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story."

Quote from the book:

But I have always had fun, and one this is for certain: My time on this earth has always been unique. At the times when I found myself searching for maturity, I usually came up with insanity. That's the way it is in the life of Gerald Arthur Sandusky.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-57...d-touched/

Insanity? Maybe. Maybe Jerry just had the luck of the Devil. I count at least twice he was caught "red-dicked" in the showers at Penn State engaging in sex with an underage boy.

1. Sandusky was seen performing oral sex on Victim 8 (11-13 years old) in 2000, witnessed by Jim Calhoun (a janitor). Why didn't Jim make a report to the campus police or city police? He told his supervisor and the other janitors on shift but none of them ever reported it. The janitor's reasoning was that they were afraid to lose their jobs.

2. Victim 2 (approx. 10 years old) was seen by the Grad Assistant being anally raped by Sandusky in March 2002. Sandusky actually saw GA McQueary watching him as he raped the boy. No police were called (either campus or city) and nothing was done except to "ban" Sandusky from bringing Second Mile boys to the Penn State campus. As of now, no reason has been given by McQueary as to why he only reported the rape to Joe Pa and not the police.

There were many more men than just Joe Pa, Curley, Schultz, and McQueary that knew what Sandusky was doing. Is the pay at Penn State that good that all these men sold their souls to Jerry Sandusky to keep their jobs?

And what about Jerry Sandusky's wife? Did she sell her soul too? Dear God the Sandusky's have 6 adopted children, 5 of which are boys. (Grown men now.)

Quote:I have not seen anything that showed the Grad Assistant witnessed a rape. It's been described as inappropriate behavior between a minor and adult in a shower in what I've read. That doesn't mean rape.

Here it is:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedF...ntment.pdf

Please read pages 6, and 7 and tell me it was "only" inappropriate behavior. It's under the title Victim 8.

(11-08-2011, 07:50 PM)MikeyA Wrote: I have not seen anything that showed the Grad Assistant witnessed a rape. It's been described as inappropriate behavior between a minor and adult in a shower in what I've read. That doesn't mean rape.

So before going into blind outrage why not get the facts first because inappropriate behavior could be anything. It's reasons like this that things like urinating in public get people listed as sexual predators.

The grad assistant witnessed anal sex between an adult and a 10-year old. From pages 6-7 of the grand jury presentment:

Quote:As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard rhythmic,
slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

That's rape.

(11-08-2011, 07:50 PM)MikeyA Wrote:

(11-08-2011, 06:55 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Ya know, one thing I've noticed is an attitude of talking about this as if someone had walked in on Sandusky and an adult male having consensual sex in the shower. I have a 10-year-old nephew and he and his friends still play with Star Wars Legos. THEY ARE CHILDREN. Sandusky was RAPING A CHILD!!! Where is the goddamn outrage???

I have not seen anything that showed the Grad Assistant witnessed a rape. It's been described as inappropriate behavior between a minor and adult in a shower in what I've read. That doesn't mean rape.

So before going into blind outrage why not get the facts first because inappropriate behavior could be anything. It's reasons like this that things like urinating in public get people listed as sexual predators.

Just urinating in public does not get one listed as a 'sexual predator'. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

And I did "get my facts" from the indictment. I suggest you read it, then attempt to minimize it. As far as I'm concerned, ANY "inappropriate behavior between a minor and adult in a shower" warrants a police call.

[/quote]
How would calling the police open himself up to a lawsuit?
[/quote]

Because he wasn't a witness to the inappropriate behavior. What he knew was second hand. He had already asked Sandusky to turn in his resignation two years prior.

Had Sandusky been found not to have done anything he'd have a clear suit for Defamation of character which requires malice and damage. Sandusky could claim malice because of previously being asked to resign and damage to his character through false accusations brought to civilian authorities. It's also could be grounds for harassment.

Now if Joe was a witness to the behavior he could notify civilian authorities but if you read on the case you learn not only did Joe find out second hand he also didn't know the full details of what took place.

It was on the Grad assistant to call the cops and it was up to Joe to notify his superiors.



[/quote]

When the eye-witness grad assistant went to Paterno's house the next day and told Paterno in person what he saw, why didn't Paterno ask him, "Did you call the cops? No? Then let's call them together, right now." The next phone call could've been to his superiors. Paterno may have done what he was legally required to do, but that doesn't get him (or the grad assistant) off the hook, as far as I'm concerned.

This justification that reporting Sandusky to the police could've subjected Paterno and the school to a lawsuit is cowardly. Who gives a shit about the 'possibility' of a lawsuit when you KNOW, by account of an eye witness who is standing in your home, that a child has been raped??? Would you be so quick to minimize and defend Paterno's inaction if this had been your son? Or if your son was the next victim after the boy in the shower?

(11-08-2011, 07:59 PM)Cheyne Wrote: Please read pages 6, and 7 and tell me it was "only" inappropriate behavior. It's under the title Victim 8.

Actually, pages 6-7 cover Victim 2, the anal sex victim. Victim 8 is the one who was allegedly observed by the janitor as receiving oral sex from Sandusky in the showers.That's detailed on pages 21-23.

Also, the graduate assistant is now known to be current assistant coach Mike McQueary.

(11-08-2011, 08:39 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: When the eye-witness grad assistant went to Paterno's house the next day and told Paterno in person what he saw, why didn't Paterno ask him, "Did you call the cops? No? Then let's call them together, right now." The next phone call could've been to his superiors. Paterno may have done what he was legally required to do, but that doesn't get him (or the grad assistant) off the hook, as far as I'm concerned.

This justification that reporting Sandusky to the police could've subjected Paterno and the school to a lawsuit is cowardly. Who gives a shit about the 'possibility' of a lawsuit when you KNOW, by account of an eye witness who is standing in your home, that a child has been raped??? Would you be so quick to minimize and defend Paterno's inaction if this had been your son? Or if your son was the next victim after the boy in the shower?

Lawheeze and cheyne, I hadn't read the indictment, just the news reports that came out over the weekend. All called it "inappropriate behavior" not rape. So thank you for the information. My comment still stands as I knew it no reports had been made that it was sex let alone rape which is why I tempered my outrage.

RJ, why are you putting this on Joe? You're telling me a Graduate student, puts them at most likely at least 22, doesn't know to call the cops when witnessing a rape or a janitor, at least 18, doesn't know. Joe is so far down the line and yet people are quick to call for him to step down. How do you know he didn't suggest what you say?

No, reporting it to superiors is not cowardly. I can say this because I've been in similar situations in the military and it is always better to not make second hand accusations and instead call for an investigation. Again I have already outlined how.

If it were my son I'd be enraged at the janitor or Graduate Assistant FOR NOT STOPPING THE RAPE!!! That's where the outrage should be. Not at a guy who didn't find out all the details and was told AFTER THE FACT!

Seriously who doesn't stop a rape? Those two should be made to stand trial alongside Sandusky as accomplices. In the military we call these acts of omission/comission. Meaning an accomplice by inaction.

I've been in a similar circumstance as Joe which is why I can understand his predicament.

Once I had a Marine under my charge who was under suspecion of rape. A not-so-honorable Marine was getting out and we had requested to speed up the process because he was a problem. Two days before he was to get out it was brought to my attention he was under investigation by civilian authorities for statutory rape with a 13-yr old (she had consented but was not of consenting age).

Now here was my dilemma. I could have charged him with rape. Being an Officer I do have that power. Also I could have delayed his getting out of the Marine Corps. Now don't get me wrong, this Marine was of poor character and I thought the charges were credible.

What I did is instead of charging him, instead of calling the base Provost Marshall, I instead informed my chain of command. They initiated a Preliminary Investigation (it determined he probably did it but recommended no charges for lack of evidence/victim cooperation). I gave the Marine a direct order to submit to a DNA test to civilian authorities (he could have refused and forced the civilian authorities to get a military warrant which takes about an hour).

Now you could say I should have done more. You could say I should have terminated his ability to get out of the Marine Corps. I could have held him under suspicion in the brig. In the end, it turned out it wasn't that Marine who had sex with the young girl, it was his civilian roommate.

Had I taken any of those actions other than what I did I would probably have come under charges of harassment, conduct unbecoming, and Art 134 General Article. My livelihood and the life of my family would have been put in jeopardy. After dismissal from the Marine Corps I could then have been sued in civilian court for defamation/harassment. It was only because I took actions that were both appropriate and warranted that when that (by this point no longer) Marine was adjudicated and declared innocent he had no recourse against the government or myself.

CNN

Legendary Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno will retire at the end of the season, he said Wednesday in a statement.

“I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief,” he said.

“I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today."

"That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

(11-08-2011, 06:10 PM)lawheeze Wrote: I can't imagine happening upon an adult banging a 10-year old and not calling the police. I don't get it.

I know. What the hell was the graduate assistant thinking?

I've finally just read up on all of this. Paterno should have had the graduate assistant report it to LE, and if the GA wouldn't for some reason, Paterno should have. These are kids we're talking about for God's sake. It's not like the GA saw the coach stealing equipment or doing drugs. Those are crimes you might report to your superior rather than calling LE. But not rape, child abuse, assault, murder.

This is really sick if true. They could have stopped this guy back then and saved future victims

Quote:RJ, why are you putting this on Joe? You're telling me a Graduate student, puts them at most likely at least 22, doesn't know to call the cops when witnessing a rape or a janitor, at least 18, doesn't know. Joe is so far down the line and yet people are quick to call for him to step down. How do you know he didn't suggest what you say?

The facts:

In 1998, Sandusky was investigated for inappropriate sexual conduct with 2 boys, Victim 6 and B.K. (B.K. is currently serving overseas and did not testify before the grand jury). This investigation included Sandusky speaking with the mother of Victim 6 twice while police investigators listened in the next room. Sandusky admitted to detective Schreffler and Jerry Lauro that he showered naked with and hugged victim 6 and that it was wrong.

Sandusky won the Assistant Coach of the Year awards in 1986 and 1999. He was so good at his job that he coached 10 first-team All American linebackers, acquiring the name "Linebacker U". He was seen as the heir apparent for Joe Pa's head coaching job. Then he retired in 1999 at the end of the season.

Schultz testified before the grand jury that Sandusky retired in 1999 due to the fact that Paterno felt it was time to make a coaching change and to take advantage of an enhanced retirement benefit under Sandusky's state pension.

My suppositions:

Joe Pa knew about the 1998 investigation (as Sandusky's direct boss he had to have known even if not "officially"). He decide it was time for Sandusky to go. Paterno didn't want Sandusky as head coach at Penn State. He told Sandusky he would never be the head coach and why. Possibly he threatened him with exposure. Why else would he want a coaching change? Sandusky was awarded the Assistant Coach of the Year that year, why would you up and change something that was working so well? Paterno wanted him out, period. Joe Pa knew about the sexual abuse (or at least the "inappropriate contact").

When GA McQueary (age 28) told Joe about the rape in 2002, Joe had to know how serious the allegation was. Even if McQueary didn't actually say "rape" or "sodomy" Joe Pa knew about the 1998 investigation and still did nothing to stop or even report the behavior to LE. The fact that he did the minimum required by law does make him culpable in this, I am sorry to say. With ultimate power does come ultimate responsibility. He had a legal duty to report to his superiors, yes. He had a moral duty to ensure that McQueary (as the eyewitness) reported to LE. He was McQueary's superior and should have told him that he needed to report it. They could've called LE right then and there and Joe could have held McQueary's hand if needed while he related what he saw to LE.

My Opinion:

Joe Pa is morally culpable in this scandal, and shares the blame with everyone else who knew what Sandusky was doing, and did nothing directly to stop it. Legally he is off the hook as he did do the minimum required by law and U policy.

Hmmm...Ray Gricar (the prosecutor who disappeared under mysterious circumstances) was the prosecutor who decided to not prosecute Sandusky.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.s...ray_g.html

It may be a coincidence. Maybe someone affiliated with this Penn State case wanted to get rid of Gricar. Maybe Gricar was paid a lot of cash to keep quiet and took off. Maybe Gricar was bribed and killed himself out of guilt.

IIRC, just before Gricar disappeared, he was seen walking/talking in a shopping area with a woman. Witnesses said they seemed to not be friends or lovers. Could have been a random person that he was just exchaging pleasantries with - though this person has never come forward. Maybe someone associated with Penn State?