(08-16-2012, 11:04 PM)YourOtherLeft Wrote: Thank you, Mustang. I wish everyone would put their energy into finding the real killers and bringing them to justice through the legal system instead of encouraging/condoning "street justice". Lately seems like a bad case of Maytee-itis has infected Mock. I am sick of people acting like a hit on Cameo solves anything - it does nothing more than make yet another Toledoan a murderer.
I know this isn't going to be popular but I am not convinced of Cameo's guilt. There are a lot of gaps that I wish would have been addressed in the trial, things I question that I wish could be answered. As for Sam, I'm not sure. Again, I am disappointed in the weakness of the case. I didn't find the phone call that convincing...I really don't know. And I feel terrible for the families and wish they could know truly who was responsible.
I wonder if LE is focusing too much on DNA testing rather than piecing together the case. What would have happened pre-DNA ? How would it be investigated? There's a way to fit the pieces together that will make a stronger case than (almost) random DNA testing with no other evidence.

BRAVO!

Great logic Mustang. Your Mother must be proud of you.
[/quote]

Well...perhaps, but she's taken to drinking lately, so... you know...

(08-16-2012, 09:36 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(08-16-2012, 07:43 PM)Mustang Wrote: I love all you fellow Mockers, but geeeeez, is it really necessary to pick on those who know Pettaway and Williams and believe they're innocent? It can't be easy to process the heinousness of the crime and picture someone you know having been involved, any more than it is for me to process Lisa being the victim.

I, for one, appreciate their presence here and look forward to their posts. They have insight that the rest of us don't, and I find it enlightening to hear the perspective of those who know the accused. They also know the other "players" that have been the subject of discussion here and may be able to bring valuable information to Mock that hasn't been disclosed before.

Some Mockers do some harsh picking like MikeyA for instance

I also apologized that I am a blunt person. Additionally I think if you are going to post opinions or personal details I feel you should EXPECT criticism. I have been consistent with this be it from Maytee or Pettaway and Williams acquaitances.

Likewise anyone can criticize me like how RJ did. I welcome it because I post opinions that I've thought out and can and will defend.

If the problem is me being "harsh" then you can file a form 5327 "hurt feelings report" with the Internet commissioner.

Hey, lots of people criticize you, MikeyA, why you gotta call ME out? LOL...it's all good.

It's great that you have well-thought out opinions. More people should, IMO.

I think what some people are saying is: Keep having your logical arguments/opinions and posting them. But maybe you could take it down a notch, so as to not chase away some people we want here posting? And maybe be open to the idea that maybe, sometimes, you don't know it all?
I actually agree with a lot of what you say, though not necessarily with how it's said. Bluntness isn't bad, but too much of it can be off-putting. Then people start to skip over your well-thought out posts and your effort is wasted.

I would love to hear from "shell52486" about the connection between Cameo and the Clarkes. Do know of if Cameo or Sam knew the Clarkes prior to the murders or have you have any connection to them? Have you ever met them or heard anything about them before the killing?
During all of the pre-trials, Cameo was always walked out of the courtroom first by security right past the family and spectators...and every single time he focused on John Sr. all the way out the door. Cameo intentionally glared emotionless, right into John's eyes as he was being lead out of the courtroom. This was very obvious and was noticed by nearly everyone in the courtroom and even had John Sr. nearly jumping out of his seat. It really did appear as if Cameo was trying to send John a message with his stare-down.

I certainly hope Greenfrog will return to Mock she is welcome here! I do know she is a lowly hardworking service worker and where would our great society be without the service worker? in some instances they are under paid and they depend on a tip now and again! I'm always grateful to find my Hotel room, Bed & Breakfast room etc., spotless and I always leave a tip! No one should look down on these workers, it's hard work!!

MikeyA has it all wrong! Greenfrog is a fine Mother a dedicated mother and actually Sam Williams lost out IMO when he lost Greenfrog.

She'll come back, she doesn't strike me as a quitter.

courtesy Butterfly Girl:
----------------

Justice for Johnny Clarke and Lisa Straub
WE GOT EM ON PAYROLL HAHAHA ALL EYES ON YOU 24⁄7 MAGGOTS Dontcha wonder who they all are? Aahhh sshhhh you wont know till you feel it REAL TALK then you will never see light of day again hahaha ONE DAY CLOSER ; ) JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED
Like · · Share · 17 hours ago via mobile ·

I knew everyone cameo hung out with and never seen or heard of this couple. To be honest me and cameo didn't know about the murders until Sam was arrested. And yes cameo did look at him but his expressions showed hurt and anger not towards john SR. But for him and anger that everyone was against him when he was truely innocent. Put your self in that situation where you are fighting for your life for something you didn't do or have any connection to and hearing the victims family threaten your family seeing them disrespect your family and can't do anything about it. How would your facial expressions look.

(08-16-2012, 07:43 PM)Mustang Wrote: I love all you fellow Mockers, but geeeeez, is it really necessary to pick on those who know Pettaway and Williams and believe they're innocent? It can't be easy to process the heinousness of the crime and picture someone you know having been involved, any more than it is for me to process Lisa being the victim.

I, for one, appreciate their presence here and look forward to their posts. They have insight that the rest of us don't, and I find it enlightening to hear the perspective of those who know the accused. They also know the other "players" that have been the subject of discussion here and may be able to bring valuable information to Mock that hasn't been disclosed before...Having said that, reasonable people can disagree. I'd rather learn what I can about those involved, that I didn't know before, than preach the virtues of good parenting to individuals who, I think we can all agree, had nothing to do with the crime. I just don't see where that fits with the purpose of this forum.

I hope these folks don't get tired of having to constantly defend themselves or their positions and stop posting here. With all of the unanswered questions surrounding this case it seems silly to potentially squander an opportunity to hear from some fresh voices that may be able to provide insight that could lead to some answers. Let's not shoot the messenger...

Aww Mustang, You are an absolute class act, sir and I agree with everything you have written here.

(08-17-2012, 06:04 PM)NightOwl Wrote: I certainly hope Greenfrog will return to Mock she is welcome here! I do know she is a lowly hardworking service worker and where would our great society be without the service worker? in some instances they are under paid and they depend on a tip now and again! I'm always grateful to find my Hotel room, Bed & Breakfast room etc., spotless and I always leave a tip! No one should look down on these workers, it's hard work!!

MikeyA has it all wrong! Greenfrog is a fine Mother a dedicated mother and actually Sam Williams lost out IMO when he lost Greenfrog.

I really liked her too, so I hope she comes back.

She got together when she and Sam were pretty young didn't she? I got the impression that he wasn't in to his crime wave anywhere near as much when he was with her, please correct me if I am wrong, but he wasn't pimping girls out back when she was with him, was she? He seems to have definitely chosen the crime route after she split from him

From what other posters here have said, she seems to be a hardworking lady who wants what is best for her kids and has brought Sam's son up to be a polite, nice child.

Hope you come back Green Frog!

(08-17-2012, 07:31 PM)shell52486 Wrote: I knew everyone cameo hung out with and never seen or heard of this couple. To be honest me and cameo didn't know about the murders until Sam was arrested. And yes cameo did look at him but his expressions showed hurt and anger not towards john SR. But for him and anger that everyone was against him when he was truely innocent. Put your self in that situation where you are fighting for your life for something you didn't do or have any connection to and hearing the victims family threaten your family seeing them disrespect your family and can't do anything about it. How would your facial expressions look.

I dont understand why he was looking at John Sr. like that. Maytee
is the one that is blasting all over the internet and the hood/streets
about Cameo and Sam...why John Sr? The Straubs wanted him found
guilty and were all for the death penalty just as much as the Clarkes
but werent as vocal about it...how come they didnt get any of Cam's
looks too?

(08-17-2012, 04:42 PM)RJs-Ex Wrote: Hey, lots of people criticize you, MikeyA, why you gotta call ME out? LOL...it's all good.

It's great that you have well-thought out opinions. More people should, IMO.

I think what some people are saying is: Keep having your logical arguments/opinions and posting them. But maybe you could take it down a notch, so as to not chase away some people we want here posting? And maybe be open to the idea that maybe, sometimes, you don't know it all?
I actually agree with a lot of what you say, though not necessarily with how it's said. Bluntness isn't bad, but too much of it can be off-putting. Then people start to skip over your well-thought out posts and your effort is wasted.

I will take it under advisement RJ. You just need to realize, having grown up in Toledo, I grew up hearing this shit. Hell there are people in my own family who, ironically, live less than a ¹⁄₄ mile from the Clarke's, who say that same crap. It's a total lack of accountability.

When it sends me over the edge is when it involves children. Their kids will end up screwed up and they will blame it on everything except poor parental choices.

I truly hope greenfrog takes what I recommended and thinks about it. I'd hate for a promising young man to end up like his father only because of his environment, note that environment might not necessarily be within his home.

I personally watched friends succumb to the neighborhood. They came from good families too. One even got a college degree, yet he moved back to his home on Geneva (mapquest it to the Clarke's house to see how close they are).

I know Toledo. I love the city. It's an amazing and beautiful place with a rich history. I HATE the people there.

For added reading google the terms Toledo and Brain Drain. It's a real occurance.

(08-17-2012, 07:12 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: courtesy Butterfly Girl:
----------------

Justice for Johnny Clarke and Lisa Straub
WE GOT EM ON PAYROLL HAHAHA ALL EYES ON YOU 24⁄7 MAGGOTS Dontcha wonder who they all are? Aahhh sshhhh you wont know till you feel it REAL TALK then you will never see light of day again hahaha ONE DAY CLOSER ; ) JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED
Like · · Share · 17 hours ago via mobile ·

That could move them into another tax bracket.

So Sam Williams' ex-wife testified at his trial? She was called by the defense? Is that true?

(08-18-2012, 01:21 AM)Adub Wrote: So Sam Williams' ex-wife testified at his trial? She was called by the defense? Is that true?

Are you OK? I figured you knew Williams' Mother and ex-wife testified for mercy. Do you know Greenfrog is the ex-wife?

Cheers!

Dated August 13, 2012 Pursuant to the request of the defendant Samuel Todd Williams, George Conklin is appointed counsel for the purpose of filing an appeal.

Maytee La Cubana Vazquez commented on Toledo Blade .
APPEAL ALL YOU WANT MAGGOT PARASITE BECAUSE PRISON IS YOUR NEW HOME YOU WILL NEVER LEAVE PRISON ALIVE HAHAHA AND ALL THE PAIN TORTURE AND EVIL SOCK DEEDS YOU CAUSED MY SON JOHNNY AND LISA WILL REFLECT ON YOUR KIDS FACES AND YOUR MOMMAS FACE AND I HOPE JOHNNY AND LISA HAUNT YOUR VILE INHUMAN MONSTER WHATEVER YOU ARE ²⁴⁄₇ I HOPE AND PRAY THEY NEVER GIVE YOU A MOMENTS PEACE TILL YOU GASP FOR YOUR LAST BREATH AND GO MEET YOUR FATHER SATAN IN ETERNAL HELL WITH THE REST OF YOUR DEMON CREW!!!!!I HATE YOU I PRAY FOR ALL YOUR DEATHS EVERY DAY AND NIGHT AND SOON ENUFF GOD WILL MAKE SURE YOU ALL HAVE A ONE WAY TICKET TO ETERNAL HELL YOU VILE POS SOB PIG

Like · · Thursday at 1:52am ·

I wonder what godawful thing Johnny & Maytee did to deserve their karma. It must have been pretty bad given it caused him to be tortured & murdered and her to have to live in a mental hell filled with never ending anguish.

Cameo has stepped up as much as I will allow. He loves his children unconditionally but I can't let him take my kids alone with the Clarke's acting crazy. Not sure if they are all talk or not but I'm not going to risk it. He does help support them if I tell him we need something he gives it.

(08-16-2012, 06:02 PM)Nina Wrote:

(08-16-2012, 04:02 PM)shell52486 Wrote: And no I'm not retarded to think that I have lived with cameo for 8 yrs

Cameo is labeled mentally retarded not physically. He isn't the only one out here that has been diagnosised with this disorder for all you know half the people on here could be mentally retarded but without proper treatment they would never know. As for the mother of his first child and her saying he became violent just because she is full of shit cameo gave her whatever she wanted or needed. She just wanted more then what he could offer she would pick up and move and tell him you wont see your daughter unless you give me this. At that time cameo was working doing the best he could to support 2 kids at 16. As for the people that he was accused of assaulting no they all weren't lies but most of them were bar fights. Not that it makes it right but if your drunk and swing on someone expect to get swung on.
As for Sam I can't speak on what he did when he wasn't around, but I have never seen him raise his hand or his voice to anyone. Cameo is not the type to judge someone for what they do or how they live, him and Sam have been friends since they were kid's.

In fairness, I will go ahead and add Maytee and TW, AG, AC - the whole damn lot of them - to that list.

(08-18-2012, 08:52 AM)shell52486 Wrote: Cameo has stepped up as much as I will allow. He loves his children unconditionally but I can't let him take my kids alone with the Clarke's acting crazy. Not sure if they are all talk or not but I'm not going to risk it. He does help support them if I tell him we need something he gives it.

I can assure you that there is no kidding around here, just ask Aaron Griffin and Zack. AP found was forced at gunpoint to go for a ride to a park in south Toledo where he was forced to get out of the vehicle and was questioned with a gun against his head. AP gave up some info from what he had heard on the streets. John Clarke let him go. Shortly after that Aaron was sentenced to prison. Zack recenty found himself running for his life down Dunham street as the Clarkes was driving chasing after him, all while firing out of their window. They managed to catch up to him and John had his hand gun pointed right in his face and fired one more time...but he was out of bullets. Zack turned around and ran like hell and got away. Cops are fully aware of what's been going on but seem to be having problems findin someone to testify against the Clarkes. The lesson here for you is "do not let your kids out of your sight".