(11-02-2012, 10:12 PM)username Wrote:

(11-01-2012, 09:55 PM)Kip Wrote: Good. Teens should be charged as adults in murder 1 and 2 cases. A murder is not a youthful error in judgment.

I disagree. I don't think a 15 y/o is even remotely an adult. Not to say he shouldn't be wildly punished but he's a kid.

I am very curious to know the teens state of mind, mental capacity, and life overall (mitigating circumstances). Just the tip of what the court will consider in determining the level of accountability within the judicial system. Or will the court bend to the pleas and pressure of society to try these kids as adults regardless? There is a lot to consider when it pertains to the law and outside influences in cases that adjudicate a young person to adult level. Something that the general public is not privy to as it is being handle in juvenile court. Sometimes it is reported in the media correctly, but not everything.

I have dealt with both juveniles and adults who could switch places in the world we live/work in. It is so "case by case" its not funny. Personally, any teen who takes the life of a human being (excluding self defense) should be held accountable; just as an adult would be. But I lack the conviction or belief to think that someone at 15 cannot discern the value of life. Especially, those teens familiar to the workings of the criminal justice system.

Well I did an extensive search tonight to see if there are any updates and came up with nothing.

However, i did find an ODD youtube video making a claim about Autumn's possible cause of death or the condition of her body. It was a sick and deranged theory and not fact.

In the meantime, we have what was officially stated before.

This map might assist in giving you an idea of where Autumn was found, and where she lived. Horrible......

This story published today about a nice tribute to Autumn.

On Nov. 2^nd, a belated 13^th birthday vigil was held in a town about 30 minutes from Autumn's. Over 500 people showed up and the children rode a bike route in her honor. The attendees were honored and pleasantly surprised that Autumn's mother Jennifer Cornwell attended and participated.


Autumn's family

http://spiritnewspapers.com/riverwards-c...44-113.htm

I've been curious from the start about the recipient and content of the last text message that Autumn sent at around 2:30 pm the day she was killed. Nothing about that text other than it wasn't worrisome has been released by LE or the press (that I've seen). But, this piece said it was a text sent to her parents (doesn't specify which). The story is from a local paper and its more focused on the community bonding than the crime, so not sure about the source.

November 17, 2012
By: Radell Smith

A Clayton, New Jersey juvenile court judge ruled on Friday that she would not be making a media or detention decision in the Autumn Pasquale case for another month.

Superior Court Judge Colleen Maier ruled that Donte Robinson, 17, and his younger brother Justin Robinson, 15, would remain in the Camden County Youth Facility until Dec. 13, when the next detention hearing will be held.

Maier also refused to make a decision on Friday regarding the media's request for open access to the juvenile hearing in December for the brothers accused of murdering the Glouceser County girl.

The judge said she would rule at a later date on that legal request by news media, as well as the prosecution's request made this week.

Motions by the prosecution were filed on Friday requesting both juveniles be tried as adults in the murder of the 12-year-old whose body was found in a recycle container at the curb near the boys' home. They feel that it is warranted and would provide greater justice for the victim if the accused are convicted, since they would face adult sentencing guidelines instead of juvenile court sentencing limits.

Those in attendance at the media access and detention hearing included Autumn Pasquale's father Anthony Pasquale, and her mother Jennifer Cornwell, as well as relatives of the suspects.

By Carly Q. Romalino/ South Jersey Times
12/14/2012

Media will be barred from juvenile court hearings for two Clayton brothers accused of killing Autumn Pasquale, a judge decided Friday. Attorneys for several newspapers — including the South Jersey Times — argued for media access over three days before Family Division Superior Court Judge Colleen Maier.

The judge denied the media access request, according to Times’ attorney Michael Gesualdo, which will block media from sitting in on any court hearings related to juveniles Donte Robinson, 17, and his brother Justin 15. The Clayton brothers are charged with killing Autumn Pasquale, 12, and dumping her body in a recycling container at an abandoned house.

The South Jersey Times is considering an appeal, according to the newspaper’s general manager Joseph Owens. “I believe there is a significant public interest in knowing what happened here,” Owens said. “People need to know why this happened.”

Times attorneys argued the hearings should be open to media, claiming the case is of “great public concern” and could raise public policy debate, according to court papers. But for Autumn’s family, media access is “an ancillary issue,” according to Doug Long, attorney and spokesman for Anthony Pasquale, Autumn’s father.

“Our position is that we’ll leave (media access) to the discretion of the court,” said Long, who appeared in court without his client — Anthony Pasquale and Autumn’s siblings A.J. and Natalie. “What we’re after and what we’re pursuing is justice for Autumn. Everything else to us is ancillary.” Jennifer Cornwell, Autumn’s mother, appeared in court, but would not comment on the media access issue, according to her spokesman Jamie Kaigh.

A request for an injunction on printing the brothers’ names and addresses, filed by the Robinsons’ public defenders, was also denied by the judge. The brothers were set for another detention hearing Friday, but details were not available, as the judge’s order in the media access case could impact the release of information related to the juveniles, according to the Gloucester County Prosecutor’s Office.

The prosecutor’s office has requested the brothers be waived up to adult court. A date has not yet been set for the waiver hearing. If the brothers are waived up to adult court, court proceedings will be open.

Autumn Pasquale's family is again criticizing the County Prosecutors office and LE, saying that a lot of people screwed up in handling her case. I've seen nothing reported that leads me to agree. Her family and their lawyer picketed against the re-appointment of County Prosecutor Sean Dalton on Dec. 29^th. They are reportedly looking to get governor Christie's attention.

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...allie.html



Today, the public defenders representing the Robinson brothers reportedly file to block DNA sampling of these suspects. Meanwhile, as noted above, Dalton's office has reportedly applied to waive the brothers to adult court (in which case the hearing would be open to the public) - no update available on that front.

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...torne.html

(01-03-2013, 11:52 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Today, the public defenders representing the Robinson brothers reportedly file to block DNA sampling of these suspects.

I didn't realize that one had a choice when it came to that.

(01-04-2013, 08:55 AM)Duchess Wrote:

(01-03-2013, 11:52 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Today, the public defenders representing the Robinson brothers reportedly file to block DNA sampling of these suspects.

I didn't realize that one had a choice when it came to that.

I doubt they will win that motion in court. I cannot imagine how they could win such an important evidentiary tool. Interesting

Wow, this morning's update surprises me too.

A judge will not allow DNA samples to be collected from two juveniles charged with the October murder of Autumn Pasquale, the Times has learned.

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...dge_p.html

Since all of the proceedings are currently blocked to the press and public, we don't know the rationale for prohibiting hair DNA.

(01-04-2013, 09:36 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Wow, this morning's update surprises me too.

A judge will not allow DNA samples to be collected from two juveniles charged with the October murder of Autumn Pasquale, the Times has learned.

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...dge_p.html

Since all of the proceedings are currently blocked to the press and public, we don't know the rationale for prohibiting hair DNA.

Is this judge from Ohio? Ha! Odd decision, but too bad the media/public don't have access to the hearings.

I wonder how this will play out in the adult setting if both are adjudicated into superior court.

The DNA sampling prohibition by the judge really surprised me; did a little reading.

All states require convicted felons to submit DNA for the national database and some states allow for mandatory DNA sampling of suspected felons (prior to conviction) and even allow for the samples to be kept in the database if the suspect is acquitted.

What's not specifically addressed under most state laws is DNA sampling for juvenile suspects. This may explain why it was left up to the judge to decide in the Robinson brothers case. I don't know if the judge's ruling would be automatically nullified if the brothers are tried as adults (suspected adult felons in NJ can be mandated to give up DNA samples).

Interesting subject; lots of inconsistencies in the laws between states and lots of controversy surrounding fourth amendment issues and expectations of privacy. The ACLU is active in fighting mandatory suspect DNA sampling laws in California. The Supreme Court is set to review the law on a federal level (in response to a Maryland petition) in mid 2013.

Snipped (May 2011):
A new wave of legislation is sweeping across the nation with nearly half of the states currently requiring the pretrial collection of DNA samples from individuals who are arrested for various crimes but not yet convicted. Collected DNA samples are submitted to the Combined DNA Index System ("CODIS") and are compared against other DNA profiles in CODIS. The states listed below have enacted laws requiring arrestees to submit DNA samples. However, the laws are not uniform among the states. Several states, including Maryland and Tennessee require a probable cause hearing prior to the DNA being loaded into a DNA database. Some states, such as Alabama, California, and Florida require DNA samples to be submitted if an individual is arrested for committing any felony offense. Other states, including Arizona, Maryland, and New Mexico require DNA samples to be submitted only in cases where an individual is arrested for a violent felony such as murder or sexual assault. Additionally, state laws vary whether juveniles must submit DNA samples upon arrest. Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, and South Carolina specifically include juveniles while other states do not.

http://www.ncstl.org/resources/DNACollectionUponArrest

Reference: 2013 Supreme Court review
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-11...king-s-dna

It is standard practice for us to collect DNA on anyone arrested (not found guilty) on new felony charges that have never had their DNA taken before. When they refuse, no big deal. The court orders the subject to comply. I think it is a great tool, and will be utlized in a positive way.

So sc can you think of a reason why the judge is not ordering it? I feel like he is protecting them instead of protecting the system. It feels like having blinders on... Is this what it feels like to have a case kept out of the media? I don't like it hahaha... I want access!

(01-06-2013, 01:56 PM)heartbreaker6713 Wrote: So sc can you think of a reason why the judge is not ordering it? I feel like he is protecting them instead of protecting the system. It feels like having blinders on... Is this what it feels like to have a case kept out of the media? I don't like it hahaha... I want access!

First, I was shocked to see such a move but without knowing the particulars of how it was argued in the courtroom; I am at a loss. However, I would like to believe the assumption that the Judge may have an inclination that this is going to a "adult level", so it may be standard practice to have the motion granted there.

In 2007 the associated press reported this opinion based on New Jersey DNA testing. Which I am going to have to dig further, but I am curious if this is testing for the guilty, accused, or both. Or did this all change?

N.J. justices uphold state's DNA testing for felons

The New Jersey law that mandates DNA testing for felons is constitutional and can be used to solve crimes
committed before the sample was taken, the state Supreme Court ruled yesterday. A pair of 6-0 decisions, in
two similar cases, upheld the New Jersey DNA Database and Databank Act of 1994, which lower courts had
affirmed. Similar laws are in place federally and in all other states.
The American Civil Liberties Union decried the rulings. It had lawyers representing Jamaal W. Allah, who pleaded
guilty to drug charges in 2001, and a juvenile who pleaded guilty to the adult equivalent of aggravated assault in
2002.
"By ruling that we have no greater privacy interest in our DNA than we do in our fingerprints, the court has set
the legal framework that could allow the government to require and obtain all New Jerseyans' DNA samples upon
birth," said Deborah Jacobs, executive director for the ACLU of New Jersey.
The law, in addition to establishing a state database, requires that DNA information be forwarded to the FBI for
its database, which is available nationally to law enforcement. An appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court was
considered unlikely because the law has been upheld around the nation.

As of September 18, 2012 this map was published based on states with DNA testing of Felons. I can only assume that juvenile offenders fall under a different pretense.

Okay in doing some research I ran accross this :

NJ JUVENILE COURT HAND OUT


On page 11 of the PDF it appears that this is motion or guilt driven. Now this is an assumption, but I am betting a good one. So I guess in NJ the court decides totally on the Juvenile level. If anyone else finds something, that would be excellent.

I really don't understand why Autumn's family is dead set on suing Gloucester LE. From everything that I read, they handled the case properly and swiftly. Interested in seeing the nature of their complaints when the civil suit moves forward.

In February, Autumn's parents were also involved in legal action against each other for control of her gravestone and memorial funds. AFAIK, they eventually worked that out privately.



Autumn's outspoken godfather also filed an ethics complaint against a Clayton Board of Education member for not being supportive enough in terms of resident grief counseling. That claim was rejected and dismissed.

Anyway, here's the status of the criminal cases against the teen brothers accused of killing her for her bike:

Court activity in the Autumn Pasquale murder case is moving, while slowly, toward a hearing that would decide if juvenile defendants are transferred to open adult court, according to the Camden County Prosecutor’s Office.

The brothers, who were 15- and 17-years-old when arrested last fall, have been charged with the murder of the 12-year-old Clayton Middle School student.

Autumn was reported missing in October after leaving her father’s Clayton home on her bicycle. After a massive days-long search, the pre-teen’s remains were discovered in a recycling bin on an abandoned property next to the Robinsons’ house.The boys were arrested hours after Autumn’s body was found.

Despite Gloucester County Prosecutor’s Office’s involvement in the search for the girl, the case was transferred to the Camden County Prosecutor in February after the Pasquale family filed a tort claim notice against the Gloucester office. The notice informs government agencies of potential civil lawsuits.

“It’s not a common occurrence for one prosecutor’s office to take on a case from another,” Laughlin said, acknowledging that the process of prosecuting this case is “not a speedy one.”

Autumn Pasquale murder: Clayton brother pleads guilty in adult court

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...cart_river

(08-07-2013, 02:26 PM)ScientistsCanvas Wrote: Autumn Pasquale murder: Clayton brother pleads guilty in adult court

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/inde...cart_river

Thanks for the update, ScientistsCanvas.

The 15 year old brother is the one who admitted to luring Autumn to the house and strangling her, in adult court. He got 17 years under a plea deal; formal sentencing to be handed down next month. Not long enough, IMO.

The 17 year old brother was also charged with murder, but his case is still pending in juvenile court.

The senselessness of this crime still affects me; kids killing a friend for bicycle parts. The thought of the killers being out of prison in their early thirties (or sooner) is disturbing.

I guess the best one can do is hope that there's some rehabilitation possibility, though that hope doesn't seem to translate into reality in the vast majority of cases (given the re-offender stats).

Sometimes I think that all prison does for young people is to toughen them up & make them harder, more anti-social. I don't have faith in any kind of rehabilitation that a prison offers.