(06-08-2013, 12:17 PM)Maggot Wrote: So if you had a gun......hahahaha I'm sorry, let me compose myself.....and you were watching this guy shoot people it would be better to let him continue shooting? Or would you duck behind the nearest baby carriage.

If you knew anything about me and had been paying attention fucknut you would know I handled, maintained and used shotguns for hunting, pistols for target shooting at a gun club and crossbows for hunting for years. Then I grew the fuck up and realised I had a fully functioning penis and didn't need to do all that shit anymore.

As for taking out a nutcase on the rampage? every one would like to THINK they would be as cool and calculated as Lee Marvin in the film Point Blank fact is they almost certainly wouldn't be.

If everyone in the area of this incident took place had guns you would probably have had a dozen George Zimmermans patrolling the area looking to put a cap in the ass of any suspicious niggers they might think is the gunman.

I don't believe this story for a second! How on earth could a shooting have happened at a school? THEY ARE GUN FREE ZONES!

Also, isn't it curious the identity of the shooter hasn't been made public yet? 24 hours from the event? Hmmmm.... I wonder why? Here's a hint: his first victims were his father and brother. They lived at 2036 Yorkshire Ave, Santa Monica, CA. The ownerof that house? Samir Zawahri. Funny how that works.

I'll also bet dollars to donuts he was on the radar of a mental health provider... any takers?

(06-08-2013, 03:24 PM)Jimbone Wrote: I don't believe this story for a second! How on earth could a shooting have happened at a school? THEY ARE GUN FREE ZONES!

Also, isn't it curious the identity of the shooter hasn't been made public yet? 24 hours from the event? Hmmmm.... I wonder why?

I'll bet dollars to donuts he was a mental health patient though... any takers?

Probably a student IMHO.

(06-08-2013, 03:32 PM)ESAD Wrote: Probably a student IMHO.

I edited my post to add some info... maybe a student, but I suspect his last name has a bit to do with the delay on his identity.

Coroner's officials this morning identified one of the four victims shot and killed during a rampage Friday in Santa Monica as a 68-year-old West Los Angeles man.

The Los Angeles County Coroner's Department said Carlos Navarro Franco, 68, was in a sport-utility vehicle when he was shot by the gunman, who later died during a gun battle with law enforcement at Santa Monica College.

The other three victims and the gunman have not been identified.

Five additional victims, all women, who were wounded in the attacks, had either been treated and released from hospitals, or were still hospitalized.

Three of them had been treated and released from UCLA Santa Monica either Friday afternoon or evening. A woman underwent surgery for a bullet wound at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center on Friday evening and remained in critical condition. Another woman was listed in fair condition. A third woman who was taken to the Westwood hospital died after arrival.

The shooter, described as a 25 to 30-year-old man wearing all black and a bulletproof vest, allegedly shot his brother and father at 2036 Yorkshire Ave. shortly before noon, officials said. The victims were found in the burning home, about a mile from the college campus.

Listings show the owner of the home is Samir Zawahri, 55, but coroner's officials did not confirm whether that is one of the victims' identities.

Story

“Any time someone puts on a vest of some sort, comes out with a bag full of loaded magazines, has an extra receiver, has a handgun and has a semiautomatic rifle, carjacks folks, goes to a college, kills more people and has to be killed at the hands of police,” Santa Monica Police Chief Jacqueline Seabrooks said, “I believe that’s premeditated.”

Police will not publicly identify the suspect until his next of kin has been notified, Seabrooks said. She said his relatives could be out of the country.
=====================================================

BUT, reports from anonymous LE sources have been cited in the media starting a few hours ago:

Law enforcement sources in Washington and Los Angeles identified the shooting suspect as John Zawahri, who was in his 20s. Other law enforcement sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said the suspect had some mental problems in the past and was angry over his parents’ divorce.

These sources said the alleged gunman's first victims were his father and brother, whose bodies were found in a burning home. Police sources said the bodies were those of Samir Zawahri, 55, the owner of the house and Zawahri’s father, and one of his adult sons.

Santa Monica police said they had dealt with the suspect in 2006, including a call to the same address on Yorkshire Avenue, but the specifics of the case could not be discussed because the suspect was a juvenile at the time.

The gunman was connected to Santa Monica College as recently as 2010, police said.

The sources all spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case was ongoing.


Refs:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...3675.story
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...2879.story

Getting hit with a shotgun even with a bullet proof vest will knock you on your ass.

A nutter with guns is as American as apple pie.

They need them in case the king of England comes back and tries to tax their tea.

I'm glad I have guns in my home.

(06-09-2013, 05:28 AM)Duchess Wrote:

I'm glad I have guns in my home.

You aren't a homicidal sociopath.

To the best of my knowledge.

(06-09-2013, 05:55 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: You aren't a homicidal sociopath.

If I were any more laid back I'd be flat out on the ground.

I'm a lover not a fighter, I'm as harmless as they come.

Authorities have confirmed the killer's ID as John Sawahri. He conducted his killing spree the day before his 24^th birthday.

More details emerging.




KILLER. This is John Zawahri's 2006 Santa Monica High School yearbook photo



He just waltzed right into Santa Monica College, toting his gun, nothing to stop him.


I think Zawahri had been planning/fantasizing about this for a while. He wore a ballistics vest and had 1,300 rounds of ammunition on his person. This photo shows what he dropped. Will be interesting to see if investigators find a manifesto, journal or incriminating social media/internet posts.

Authorities believe the house was set on fire before Sam and Chris Zawahri were shot.

The following 13-minute shooting spree spanned several parts of Santa Monica.

The gunman and a family member had been enrolled in Santa Monica College as recently as 2010.

One of the four people killed was shot outside the library of the school, college Police Chief Albert Vasquez said. That woman's name has not been released.

Another victim, 68-year-old Carlos Navarro Franco, was driving an SUV on campus when he was gunned down, police said. Franco was with his youngest daughter, Marcela, who was going to buy textbooks for her studies at California State University. The 26-year-old daughter was shot and is in critical condition at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center. She "is not expected to survive,".


VICTIMS. Charles Navarro Franco and daughter Marcela

Investigators are still trying to determine the motive in the shootings that also left five people wounded.

With the exception of the gunman's father and brother, all of the other shooting victims were apparently chosen at random.

Inside the college, after hearing the gunshots: "Not knowing what to do (student named Franco said), We just sat there."The teacher left the classroom to see what he could learn and, moments later, ran back inside. "He says, 'They just unloaded a magazine.'"

Refs and full stories/witness accounts:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/09/justice/ca...=hp_t1_img
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1366943

This guy was unhinged for a long time, not properly treated, and harbored a growing festering grudge against his family and his former classmates/administrators, those whom he believed had done him wrong. In his fucked up mind, he turned the tables and took control of them on Friday. IMO.

Wish all schools had entrance-points monitoring and all teachers were required to have "what-if" training for these kinds of situations. I think it should be mandatory.

This could happen anywhere anytime. Just a sad reality. Doesn't sound like there was an emergency plan of action in place at Santa Monica College, imo. If this guy had made it into a full classroom, the body count would probably be much higher.

No wonder I think about death as much as I do. Here one minute, gone the next. No one is safe :(

(06-09-2013, 10:54 AM)Duchess Wrote:

No wonder I think about death as much as I do. Here one minute, gone the next. No one is safe :(

This story made me think again about Isaiah Fowler, the 12 year old charged with stabbing his 8 year old sister to death last month.

Reportedly, John Sawahri had some kind of juvenile incident in the past and had been in treatment. No details provided yet as he was a minor and records are officially sealed. Not clear if he'd been incarcerated and/or if the treatment was voluntary or forced.

The most the state of California can do in regards to Isaiah Fowler is keep him incarcerated until his 23^rd birthday. The most society can do given the current laws is hope that he is treatable and that he's not instead waiting to get out and carry on with some kind of revenge rampage or other type of murder(s), like Sawahri apparently did on the eve of his 24^th birthday.

Update

The 26 year old student (Marcela) whose father was killed on Friday died yesterday. Turns out that her father, Charles Navarro Franco, happened to be a 30 year employee of Santa Monica College (groundskeeper). It's not believed that the killer knew this or that it's in any way related.

Zawahri's mother was reportedly out of the country when the killings took place and is now back in California. Some reports saying that the killer lived with his mother, others that he lived with the father and brother that he killed on Friday. Maybe back and forth?

Anyway, red flags about this guy were everywhere. It was no secret that he was mentally ill and had threatened to harm others.

snipped:
...sources tell CNN that Zawahri was hospitalized for mental illness in recent years after allegedly talking about harming others.
A neighbor described the victim as unemployed, 22, man who lived in the Mar Vista area with his mother.

'My heart breaks for her, because I knew the kid wasn't right,' Beverly Meadows told KABC. 'You know how you can just sense there's something not quite right about somebody? Something not quite right.'

Meadows added that the suspect had recently shaved his head and grown a beard. It remains unclear if the 23-year-old admitted himself or if he was involuntary placed in the hospital. Also unclear are the exact circumstances of his treatment and the circumstances of his release.

Officials do not believe Zawahri had any terrorist affiliations, domestic or international.

Seabrooks did confirm that Zawahri had a 2006 run-in with the law but was unable to specify its exact nature, as he was a minor at the time.

Refs:
HLN TV and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...vorce.html

I go to some of my kids school functions with my Glock 17 and permit, they never know I have it. Only my wife.

(06-10-2013, 05:46 PM)Maggot Wrote: I go to some of my kids school functions with my Glock 17 and permit, they never know I have it. Only my wife.

I don't blame you.

We discussed in the Gun Control thread about how most of these spree killers were either known to be acting crazy before their rampages or had been diagnosed/treated for being mentally ill.

I think it was Jimbone who pointed out in that thread (or a related one) about how the drastic reduction in mental institutions starting a few decades ago (and the view that everyone can be effectively treated as an outpatient) contributes to the problem. I think John Zawahri is a prime example of what falls through the cracks.

It was reported today in the LA Times that when he was in elementary school his mother told a teacher about severe abuse at the home. She filed for divorce and a restraining order (didn't press charges so as not to inflame the abuser), the two boys apparently went back and forth between mom and dad, the kid ends up with some kind of juvenile crime record in high school, he's treated for mental illness as a young adult, and then he shoots his dad, brother, and strangers when mom's visiting Lebanon.

IDK. How does a parent make an adult take their medication or stay in treatment? How many of these guys are out there because they can't be forcibly committed? The number of these spree killings really does seem to be increasing. I don't like the idea of mental illness being a life sentence or some of the conditions that patients were forced to endure back in the day. But, it does seem like there's a gap in the system.

P.s. So far, haven't heard much ado about how he, as someone with with diagnosed mental illness, was able to acquire firearms - kinda surprised. Probably hear more about that soon enough.

(05-06-1974, 01:07 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: P.s. So far, haven't heard much ado about how he, as someone with with diagnosed mental illness, was able to acquire firearms - kinda surprised. Probably hear more about that soon enough.

You're surprised? Why? Nearly all spree killers in recent memory in the US and the world have been known to have mental health problems. The fact they are mentally ill is not the issue the fact they are mentally ill and have access to firearms is. The vast majority of spree killings are commited by people with mental health problems using legally purchased firearms this is the problem.

(06-11-2013, 02:08 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote:

(05-06-1974, 01:07 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: P.s. So far, haven't heard much ado about how he, as someone with with diagnosed mental illness, was able to acquire firearms - kinda surprised. Probably hear more about that soon enough.

You're surprised? Why? Nearly all spree killers in recent memory in the US and the world have been known to have mental health problems.

I'm surprised because we usually see a lot of media focus on how the killer (diagnosed mentally ill and/or juveniles especially) got a hold of firearms; that media focus typically begins very shortly after spree killing stories break, but that hasn't happened yet on this one (that I've seen). When all of the victims have been laid to rest, it probably will.

(06-11-2013, 02:08 AM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: The fact they are mentally ill is not the issue the fact they are mentally ill and have access to firearms is. The vast majority of spree killings are committed by people with mental health problems using legally purchased firearms this is the problem.

Those diagnosed with mental illness are not legally able to purchase, own or possess guns in the US. That doesn't stop some from getting a hold of them anyway by falsifying background check data (the NICS database is incomplete and privacy laws make it difficult to acquire the information from mental health professionals), or getting a hold of them otherwise illegally. And, of course, many mentally ill people are not diagnosed or treated, so they wouldn't be denied a gun purchase in any case.

I think there are several problems contributing to spree killings and mass murders (whether they be carried out by guns, bombs, arson); not just one.